Blown Engine / Exhaust ? Please Help

[85 Barefoot]

yes i fully agree and yes i'm fully aware of not pulling tubers from tower! although there are quite a few i see doing this on the lake, my neighbor being one of them until i informed him about it, and they looked shocked nobody had told them not to do that with their new axis boat.

comparing to a tahoe is just for humor, and posing questions on the aspect of "why not have extra protective features". I mean after all cars/boats do have some of the same engines...

You hit the nail on the head. People towing tubes form the tower just don't know any better. People not looking over their engines just don't know any better. I'm not trying to be critical, I'm trying to help you see that you can benefit from now "knowing better".

Most importantly, did you get the boat back?

[The Hulk]

Hulk if you think that small time seasonal businesses (i.e. boat dealers) pay and train their mechanincs like car dealers do, or that boats are built as well as kias and hyundais, you are in for a lot of disappointment. Boat dealers have a huge peak season from about two weeks before memorial day right up to when the first freeze happens. And then they are pretty much dead. Real mechanics (i.e. talented ones) are not going to gravitate toward boat repair because it's so seasonal. So even the biggest, best dealers have one, maybe two real year-round "mechanics" (and often that's the guy with so little going on that he just doesn't have the ambition to go elsewhere), and then some random seasonal summer grease monkeys.

Boats are just fiberglass bathtubs that the manufacturers stick a pre-built powertrain into. Aside from the electronics that come with the engine itself, these are NOT particularly sophisticated products. They are built by relatively low paid folks in tennessee, not by robots, and not by UAW members.

If your infinitely better built car has a problem, you can generally pull over and call for help. Not allways so with a boat. Srsly man, if you spent like 10% of the time that you have on here worrying about more power, different props, crazy sensors, etc etc just getting to know how your boat works (especially the cooling system -- which you are still calling "inter cooled" -- which relates only to cooling the air that goes into the motor to make it denser and has NOTHING AT ALL to do with how your boat is cooled) you are going to be way better off. You would be highly highly skeptical of the engine being "mostly cooled by oil" and you'd also really want to know how your uncooled transmission faired after those WOT runs.

Or maybe not and you can just lash out at people. It really doesn't matter if you own a 100K boat or a 10K boat... the captain's responsibilities (yours) for keeping friends and family safe are the same.

shawn, i coudnt agree more about the boats vs cars! my only point is if enough people request a feature then they get added to product line. i'm well aware of the seasonality of the industry and mechanic situations at dealers/marinas etc. If anything wouldn't this support the whole notion of having extra protective features because as stated when your boat goes ...your stranded on the water. But i guess since we are all mostly on inland small lakes we can all paddle or swim ashore vs those yachts on the big blue with a million protective and warning devices.... and bayliners of course.

as an engineer in a whole other field its my duty persay to ask Why Not? and to improve upon things to prevent mishaps for consumers. Engineers are NEVER satisfied with a product it can ALWAYS be better!

the cooling system has already been answered several times..

guys i'm not lashing out here ive asked for knowledge and assistance and feedback, yea i know everyone on this site checks all their things diligently but i have to at least assume that only the DIE HARD bu owners are on this site and the vast majority are not.

[The Hulk]

I can tell you on my 2011, if any warnings do pop up, they appear over ANY screen I am currently locked into. Should note, I also don't play around with the settings screen while the boat is in gear, so maybe this is where we differ.

can you or anyone confirm media or video input screens as well ? as i plan to do the lucyview or a tower cam. and just want to be sure.

[85 Barefoot]

A better question than "why not", in my opinion, is "why"? Should a pilot scrap his pre-flight checklist simply because you can add more alarms to those that are already there? Or is it as simple as just looking over your boat and knowing what to look for?

[saxton15]

Don't have the Tower Cam, and I've yet to use the video input. I've thought back and I honestly cannot remember a time I was on the media screen while underway. I'll flip back and forth between rider pre-sets during surf/wake, then keep it on the gauge screen while cruising around. Maybe someone else can confirm.

[Lance B. Johnson]

This absolutely cracks me up.

I like how you put "caused" in quotes as if there is some debate about it. Even the dealer admitted they caused it and apologized and they are doing the right thing.

Hulk is not some negligent user. In fact, he probably reflects 95% of Malibu customer base.

I also don't think 5 minutes is enough to understand the inner workings of a supercharged engine if you have no foundation of knowledge. IMO, those 5 minutes would have been better spent by the dealer connecting a hose.

95 percent of the customer base doesn't check their gauges?

Edited June 1, 2015 by Lance B. Johnson

[DocPhil]

95 percent of the customer base doesn't check their gauges?

I think we confirmed that Hulk's gauges didn't read abnormal didn't we?

But, yes I would say that is accurate in my mind. Not only would I be willing to be on that.

I would bet that 95% can't tell you the difference between the tranny, vdrive and motor.

Edited June 1, 2015 by DocPhil

[85 Barefoot]

Absolutely. Not only would I be willing to be on that.

I would bet that 95% can't tell you the difference between the tranny, vdrive and motor.

Wow dude.

[shawndoggy]

I think we confirmed that Hulk's gauges didn't read abnormal didn't we?

NO. In fact we've established that Hulk has never answered the question of how hot, exactly, the gauge read when catastrophe struck. "normal" is not an answer. the gauge shows a number for engine temp. What was the number?!

Edited June 1, 2015 by shawndoggy

[Lance B. Johnson]

I think we confirmed that Hulk's gauges didn't read abnormal didn't we?

But, yes I would say that is accurate in my mind. Not only would I be willing to be on that.

I would bet that 95% can't tell you the difference between the tranny, vdrive and motor.

Nope. Read through the posts. He has closed cool cooling or what he is incorrectly calling inner cooling....the gauge read correctly because they are submersed in coolant even when the boat is in your garage! No water flow needed Doc.

Your numbers are wrong too. Every guy I boat with, every one can tell you that information even the ones that don't winterize their boat. This includes -BS-, Bawshogg (of course), Bianchini, and another guy that owns a T22.

This is ALL moot anyway. After all Hulk recognized the disconnected line as a problem and he doesn't even understand the system......proving that if he would have taken 5 minutes and done a proper inspection BEFORE then he would have found the hose....it was obvious.

I do think your grinding Axes with your dealer doc. The dealer messed up sure........but this isn't about that. The boat should never have been launched like that.

I have said it before.....I don't care if the technician poops golden wrenches.....check that boat!

Doc I am glad your reading this anyway....I think maybe your eyes are opened up a bit and that maybe you'll look your new MC over a little closer. Thats actually my hope for anyone reading this thread.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Lance B. Johnson

[shawndoggy]

Nope. Read through the posts. He has closed cool cooling or what he is incorrectly calling inner cooling....the gauge read correctly because they are submersed in coolant even when the boat is in your garage! No water flow needed Doc.

BUT if he has no water running to the heat exchanger (and I'd bet a big mac and an IPA that the heat exchanger is after the raw water pump), then the temp gauge likely DID read accurately AND go up significantly.

Unless the motor really is "mostly cooled by oil."

[Lance B. Johnson]

BUT if he has no water running to the heat exchanger (and I'd bet a big mac and an IPA that the heat exchanger is after the raw water pump), then the temp gauge likely DID read accurately AND go up significantly.

Unless the motor really is "mostly cooled by oil."

Right, but when did mcdonalds start serving IPAs? Shawn.

Anyway that is EXACTLY what I am saying here.

I think we are betting on the same thing......I think the temp gauge looked like this^^

Big macs are horrible. If you ever get out this way, I will take you to my favorite spot called Local Cow.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Lance B. Johnson

[oceanbu]

Well I think that settles it then....his motor is mostly cooled by oil.

Edited June 1, 2015 by oceanbu

[85 Barefoot]

LBJ, I just don't see how his gauge would have looked like that. For one, alarms would have been going off but more importantly it would have gine into protect mode in which case Hulk would have noticed something was wrong long before it shut down. Would you not agree?

[oceanbu]

[Lance B. Johnson]

LBJ, I just don't see how his gauge would have looked like that. For one, alarms would have been going off but more importantly it would have gine into protect mode in which case Hulk would have noticed something was wrong long before it shut down. Would you not agree?

True. Maybe he didn't actually overheat the engine, and just overheated the exhaust. Good point.

In that case, he moves up the scale from lucky to super lucky.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Lance B. Johnson

[shawndoggy]

that's still the part I don't understand at all. With no water going through the heat exchanger and the motor going full tilt, seems like the AF in the block would be heating up in a hurry. Maybe he was running the heater tho? That and the oil cooling...

[edwin]

Wouldn't a shapshot from the ECM show how many hrs at what rpm, temp history, etc?

[The Hulk]

i would have to agree with docphil in that the majority of boat owners are probably not on this site, and that if i had to guess 90% of bu or axis or inboard owners are your typical laker. I've discussed my issue with several inboard owners in the area to find that the majority had admitted to not having checked their hoses before pre-launch for their season. Their response was i have my boat winterized and was told it’s good to go for next season.... YES we can stop beating a dead horse here and say a checklist is the most important thing... AKA priority #1. my checklist was obviously not complete... But hey i guess we can say bayliner knows their customers better and have a more responsible design to protect their consumers who don’t do their pre-season check or a well enough one.

i did look this boat over and tried to learn as much as possible at times throughout the winter. checked hoses near drain plug areas and tried to again learn about all things. The one modification i WISH i would have done is the side-panel supports,. Had i removed these panels and got down into the boat i probably would like to have think i would have clearly seen the hose not connected.

as far as the gauge readings: i can’t tell you... when she blew smoke i yelled out a bunch of choice words and opened hatch said a few more, then went up to the bow and sat on the front and the only gauge i knew was off the chart was my blood pressure. i waited for someone to come and tow me back to the dock, i tied it up as quickly as possible without looking at any of the gauges, went up to the shore to find dead silence from everyone and a friend poured me a stiff drink and said you’re gonna need this... i didn’t look at the boat for at least an hour later when a neighbor came by and of course expensive boat everyone seems to think they know something and want to look at it...until we removed side panels we didn’t see the hose or the tag etc.. so again i didn’t touch anything decided to leave it as it was to take back to dealer as i didn’t want to be liable for doing more damage.

if the temp gauge supposedly works without intake water then why NO warning on maliview screen? and the dealer informed me their tech said without that hose your SOL for reading the temp at least as i was informed and that’s all i have to go off of as i admittedly didn’t watch the temp gauge. I’ve driven boats my entire life and that’s probably the last thing to look at (in the past at least) as hell if there was ever an engine heat problem you would hear that loud as siren... well at least older boats and those bayliner. Now I know better, I’m stupid for thinking it was something standard like a steering wheel with a new boat.

Again I go back to the 90% of people not on this site, I take my mother for example went and test drove a new axis and was tempted to buy it so that she could spend more time with the grandkids at her cottage. She is the queen B when in the boat, shes driving no ifs, ands or buts. She has driven boats her entire life so when she takes everyone out shes driving. I would consider her to be a typical laker. They pay to have their boats serviced and they are oblivious to a lot of things and so long as the the boat works their a happy camper. Is that an excuse for not doing a pre-check HECK NO I agree, I’m just saying please think of the average boaters out there, you all know em, and not of yourself. Your on this site because you want to KNOW MORE and or everything possible. I honestly think many on here have lost touch with the average boater. I mean after all isn’t that why Axis brand came about to appeal a fancy wake boat within the budget of the average laker? Im sorry but if your trying to grow your brand don’t you think as a mfg you should put idiot proof features found on the boat owners previous cheap boats? I know everyone I’m crazy. I’m crazy its not needed…

This simply brings me back to the point. Many are saying Pre-check pre check …yea we all have that drilled into our heads. But lets play the scenario that say the hose was loose or came off during operation (because that surely has never happened before anywhere) and say you were behind the boat or someone else (your parents took it out) or whatever … I don’t want to play “what if” but seriously I have presented a REAL life scenario with REAL life consequences. I have yet to see ONE person on here ponder the question why I’m so dumb for wondering why our Bus don’t need an engine block audio siren like cheap boats? The only response is pre-check and you “should” never have an issue. I find it hard to believe that everyone on here is checking out new nifty boat gadgets all the time and thinking how cool they are but when it comes to protecting their engine in a possible real life situation with advanced warning they consider it not necessary or pointless. I find this laughable that not a single person agrees with me on this cheap feature.

[85 Barefoot]

that's still the part I don't understand at all. With no water going through the heat exchanger and the motor going full tilt, seems like the AF in the block would be heating up in a hurry. Maybe he was running the heater tho? That and the oil cooling...

Heat exchanger could have been upstream of the tranny cooler. I know you have some suspicion that what he took a picture of is an oil cooler but I'm pretty darn confident its the tranny cooler. Remember, he also griped about the lack of performance of his bilge. He may well have been pumping water in the bilge after it went through heat exchnager. The "last stop" for the water is the exhaust. Hence, I can see that perhaps his engine was cooling normally.

[oldjeep]

This whole thread reminds me of one over on the Hull Truth where this guy is trying to figure out if the marina is to blame since they didn't tell him that his plug was out before he picked up his boat, trailered to the launch, launched it, parked it in his slip left and it sunk.

[ahopkins22LSV]

If there is no fluid, water, anti freeze, whatever at the temp sensor it will not read correct? Could this have been the case which is why there were no alarms? If that is true then I guess the only way to know something is up because you would have ran the boat for quite some time to be at temp and you aren't. Gauge would still be reading cold. Depends on where the temp sensor is on your engine though.

Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

[85 Barefoot]

hulk, I hear you. I just disagree. For one, a running bilge I would have noticed, I would have stopped immediately to inspect.

I would like to respond to the "mechanics" of what you posted as to the cooling system but until we know for sure whether you have closed cooling or not its impossible.

Take a picture of the front of the engine when you get it back. Which, by the way, when is that?

[The Hulk]

True. Maybe he didn't actually overheat the engine, and just overheated the exhaust. Good point.

In that case, he moves up the scale from lucky to super lucky.

SC bearings shot or melted or whatever they told me and the exhaust obviously. from what i understand the exhaust on the SC motor will go sky high before damaging the engine but again i'm not the professor mechanic by any means thus why my post for questions.

as previously stated everyone i said what i was told i also found it strange the engine is cooled by oil maybe that was a way of dumbing it down for me to somewhat understand him the engine was ok and only the SC and exhaust was damaged...

Professor LBJ - since the branch is extended.... i still have NOT received an answer: the dealer informed me the engine still shows brand new with a pressure test of 120-125 on cylinders. (i have nothing to go off of) and have no idea if the pistons/valves/sleeves were scored or whatever and or if that would even show up on such a test. All i know is my 1991 prostar 190 with 1100hrs on it had a pressure test of 150-155 which was great given the number of hours, but my neighbor said with these new SC engines they tend to be a lower pressure and i dont recall exactly what he said but its something to do with the SC and timing overlaps, and if there is too much initial pressure then the heads will blow so they create it later.... Again i may be talking like an idiot and thus why i'm ASKING!

[oldjeep]

SC bearings shot or melted or whatever they told me and the exhaust obviously. from what i understand the exhaust on the SC motor will go sky high before damaging the engine but again i'm not the professor mechanic by any means thus why my post for questions.

as previously stated everyone i said what i was told i also found it strange the engine is cooled by oil maybe that was a way of dumbing it down for me to somewhat understand him the engine was ok and only the SC and exhaust was damaged...

Professor LBJ - since the branch is extended.... i still have NOT received an answer: the dealer informed me the engine still shows brand new with a pressure test of 120-125 on cylinders. (i have nothing to go off of) and have no idea if the pistons/valves/sleeves were scored or whatever and or if that would even show up on such a test. All i know is my 1991 prostar 190 with 1100hrs on it had a pressure test of 150-155 which was great given the number of hours, but my neighbor said with these new SC engines they tend to be a lower pressure and i dont recall exactly what he said but its something to do with the SC and timing overlaps, and if there is too much initial pressure then the heads will blow so they create it later.... Again i may be talking like an idiot and thus why i'm ASKING!

Supercharged engines typically run lower compression than normally aspirated engines. Let me take a look at the manual and see if they give the compression numbers for your motor.

All the Indmar manual says is min 100psi, which is a standard chevy smallblock min. And there isn't really a way for them to have done a valid compression check anyways since the engine is supposed to be warm.

Edited June 1, 2015 by oldjeep