Blown Engine / Exhaust ? Please Help

[shawndoggy]

Heat exchanger could have been upstream of the tranny cooler. I know you have some suspicion that what he took a picture of is an oil cooler but I'm pretty darn confident its the tranny cooler. Remember, he also griped about the lack of performance of his bilge. He may well have been pumping water in the bilge after it went through heat exchnager. The "last stop" for the water is the exhaust. Hence, I can see that perhaps his engine was cooling normally.

Yeah you could be right. That would mean oil cooler, tranny cooler, vdrive and heat exchanger all before the RWP. That's not how mine is done, but that doesn't really mean anything because I have MP not indmar.

I think we have at least finally established that hulk never actually looked at the engine temp gauge before the motor let the magic smoke out.

[The Hulk]

hulk, I hear you. I just disagree. For one, a running bilge I would have noticed, I would have stopped immediately to inspect.

I would like to respond to the "mechanics" of what you posted as to the cooling system but until we know for sure whether you have closed cooling or not its impossible.

Take a picture of the front of the engine when you get it back. Which, by the way, when is that?

bilge was not running guys check the map she was dry, the pipe /intake is higher than the water line, in thinking of this further here is more to ponder: when i looked it seemed find just a few wet splash marks, as stated could have been from me getting in the boat wet etc.. but i did notice after she was docked for a while water coming in and after about 1-2" of water came in more stared coming quicker etc.. if i turned bilge pump on she would pump water out, but if i turned of it would not auto-kick on, i asked dealer to check auto pump feature...A few things to consider if the water was NOT high enough for the auto pump to kick on then she wouldnt. Also after launching at both white circles i turned bilge pump on as i wanted to MAKE SURE i didnt forget a drain plug as this boat is my first boat with TWO drain plugs and with as many hose inlets on this thing for ballast pumps i wanted to ensure they were no leaks into the boat... bilge pump at both those spots on the map pumped NOTHING... so i figured hell i got all the drain plugs and no leaks i should be good to open her up a bit right? ALso i want to make a note here as well when she was docked and i had a few drinks to calm the nerves i noticed again that the auto-bilge didnt kick on, but if i turned it on it would pump, this could be again becasue the water was not high enough or another factor i noticed is that the bilge pump is in the far rear, which is actually where the water would GO if i had been moving. while sitting at the dock the low point is actually up near the front ballast pump or hatch in floor between driver seat and pass seat. I noticed the water level here was 2" deeper than in the back. Obviously if i would put in gear and been moving the bow would rise and water would flow to the back and get higher and pumped out either by auto bilge pump feature and or me hitting the button. In fact i asked the dealer if anyone or if i should put a bilge pump in this area as well since when not in motion it seems to be the low point in the boat. And i can say in my 1991 MC prostar 190 the bilge pump was in this location NOT in the back.

i'll take a pic of engine when i get it back... she should be finished up in the next few days, hope to post a video of her working on the water this weekend.

[Lance B. Johnson]

SC bearings shot or melted or whatever they told me and the exhaust obviously. from what i understand the exhaust on the SC motor will go sky high before damaging the engine but again i'm not the professor mechanic by any means thus why my post for questions.

as previously stated everyone i said what i was told i also found it strange the engine is cooled by oil maybe that was a way of dumbing it down for me to somewhat understand him the engine was ok and only the SC and exhaust was damaged...

Professor LBJ - since the branch is extended.... i still have NOT received an answer: the dealer informed me the engine still shows brand new with a pressure test of 120-125 on cylinders. (i have nothing to go off of) and have no idea if the pistons/valves/sleeves were scored or whatever and or if that would even show up on such a test. All i know is my 1991 prostar 190 with 1100hrs on it had a pressure test of 150-155 which was great given the number of hours, but my neighbor said with these new SC engines they tend to be a lower pressure and i dont recall exactly what he said but its something to do with the SC and timing overlaps, and if there is too much initial pressure then the heads will blow so they create it later.... Again i may be talking like an idiot and thus why i'm ASKING!

Supercharged engines do typically have lower compression ratio and would show a lower compression on a gauge as a result. I wouldn't be to worried about the engine compression reading that the dealer took....but it VERY well could still have a problem. We won't know until they fire it up and see.....

Edited June 1, 2015 by Lance B. Johnson

[oldjeep]

Supercharged engines do typically have lower compression ratio and would show a lower compression on a gauge as a result. I wouldn't be to worried about the engine compression reading that the dealer took....but it VERY well could still have a problem. We won't know until they fire it up and see.....

You can only take their compression test with a grain of salt anyways. All it shows it that there wasn't any catastrophic failure. There is no way they would have warmed up the engine properly with the blown muffler and supercharger issues, so the compression test would have been done cold and that throws the readings way off.

[Deven]

You don't have TWO drain plugs. You have THREE.

You had a few drinks? Not helping.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Deven

[Lance B. Johnson]

You can only take their compression test with a grain of salt anyways. All it shows it that there wasn't any catastrophic failure. There is no way they would have warmed up the engine properly with the blown muffler and supercharger issues, so the compression test would have been done cold and that throws the readings way off.

agreed. even engines with blown head gaskets can pass a compression test.

[oldjeep]

agreed. even engines with blown head gaskets can pass a compression test.

Yup

Hopefully once they get all the known bad stuff fixed they will do a proper compression and leak-down test just to make sure.

My first boat was an old late 80's Bayliner 195 project that had no power in the water but sounded pretty good on the hose and had decent compression (but failed a leakdown on 2 cylinders) - blown head gasket between 2-3

[Lance B. Johnson]

Both compression and leakdown are good tests but a good tech will recognize they have their limits.

[85 Barefoot]

bilge was not running guys check the map she was dry, the pipe /intake is higher than the water line, in thinking of this further here is more to ponder: when i looked it seemed find just a few wet splash marks, as stated could have been from me getting in the boat wet etc.. but i did notice after she was docked for a while water coming in and after about 1-2" of water came in more stared coming quicker etc.. if i turned bilge pump on she would pump water out, but if i turned of it would not auto-kick on, i asked dealer to check auto pump feature...A few things to consider if the water was NOT high enough for the auto pump to kick on then she wouldnt. Also after launching at both white circles i turned bilge pump on as i wanted to MAKE SURE i didnt forget a drain plug as this boat is my first boat with TWO drain plugs and with as many hose inlets on this thing for ballast pumps i wanted to ensure they were no leaks into the boat... bilge pump at both those spots on the map pumped NOTHING... so i figured hell i got all the drain plugs and no leaks i should be good to open her up a bit right? ALso i want to make a note here as well when she was docked and i had a few drinks to calm the nerves i noticed again that the auto-bilge didnt kick on, but if i turned it on it would pump, this could be again becasue the water was not high enough or another factor i noticed is that the bilge pump is in the far rear, which is actually where the water would GO if i had been moving. while sitting at the dock the low point is actually up near the front ballast pump or hatch in floor between driver seat and pass seat. I noticed the water level here was 2" deeper than in the back. Obviously if i would put in gear and been moving the bow would rise and water would flow to the back and get higher and pumped out either by auto bilge pump feature and or me hitting the button. In fact i asked the dealer if anyone or if i should put a bilge pump in this area as well since when not in motion it seems to be the low point in the boat. And i can say in my 1991 MC prostar 190 the bilge pump was in this location NOT in the back.

i'll take a pic of engine when i get it back... she should be finished up in the next few days, hope to post a video of her working on the water this weekend.

So you're saying your post #34 was only AFTER you were dead in the water?

Second, as to bilge pumps, what does "in this area" mean? what is traditionally known as the ski locker?

[oldjeep]

So you're saying your post #34 was only AFTER you were dead in the water?

Second, as to bilge pumps, what does "in this area" mean? what is traditionally known as the ski locker?

He is talking about the round hatch between the driver and spotter seat where the ballast fill pumps are for the front/center tanks and where the front drain plug is.

[stingreye]

that's still the part I don't understand at all. With no water going through the heat exchanger and the motor going full tilt, seems like the AF in the block would be heating up in a hurry. Maybe he was running the heater tho? That and the oil cooling...

Having had a closed cooled motor that got hot when I threw a serpentine belt while surfing, my motor got hot but the coolant didn't boil. The next morning after an evening of sitting in a warm block, significant coolant did evaporate.

If he had coolant still in his motor, I bet he didn't overheat the motor too bad. My exhaust hoses started bubling on the inside. I am surprised the exhaust didn't collapse, I was under the impression of the exhaust gets hot enough it collapses the hose and that kills the motor.

I am thinking he may have dodge a bullet on the coolant in the block.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[haresource2]

Question. Is there no sensor that should have noticed no water cooling exhaust or tranny or oil or whatever? If not, what happens to this engine with a bad impeller?

On another note, there should have been some steam/smoke in the exhaust behind the boat I would think. I had a ballast bag break off a water line connector on the exhaust last summer. Luckily I noticed the steam before any major issues. I checked my temp in mine and it was fine, actually started dropping. I shut it down as I figured something was up with a temp reading 100.

[RTS]

Question. Is there no sensor that should have noticed no water cooling exhaust or tranny or oil or whatever? If not, what happens to this engine with a bad impeller?

The temp gauge starts rising. Then the engine goes into limp mode if the operator doesn't see the gauge out of the normal range. Gives any prudent operator plenty of time to shut the engine down and figure out the problem.

Edited June 1, 2015 by RTS

[shawndoggy]

Having had a closed cooled motor that got hot when I threw a serpentine belt while surfing, my motor got hot but the coolant didn't boil. The next morning after an evening of sitting in a warm block, significant coolant did evaporate.

If he had coolant still in his motor, I bet he didn't overheat the motor too bad. My exhaust hoses started bubling on the inside. I am surprised the exhaust didn't collapse, I was under the impression of the exhaust gets hot enough it collapses the hose and that kills the motor.

I am thinking he may have dodge a bullet on the coolant in the block.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But I guess that's the point I'm trying to make... the motor "got hot," did not run as normal.

[ibelonginprison]

I think brings to light a new topic... which I shall post in a moment...

Extra gauges.

lol

Edited June 1, 2015 by ibelonginprison

[oldjeep]

Maybe someone can cobble a water pressure sensor from an outboard in after the raw water pump.

[The Hulk]

Haha sorry I meant 2 drain plugs in the boat one in the back yes three total

[Cory]

I've heard using black electrical tape to cover flashing lights on the dash makes a lot of problems disappear from sight (for a while).

I have a partially closed cooled LS3 and the order of the raw water cycling through the engine is as follows:

lake -> hole in boat -> raw water impeller -> tranny cooler -> v-drive -> heat exchanger -> exhaust manifolds -> exhaust tips -> lake

I don't know anything about how a SC is cooled, but our engines are otherwise similar, so I'd guess your lake water flow is similar.

[The Hulk]

Having had a closed cooled motor that got hot when I threw a serpentine belt while surfing, my motor got hot but the coolant didn't boil. The next morning after an evening of sitting in a warm block, significant coolant did evaporate.

If he had coolant still in his motor, I bet he didn't overheat the motor too bad. My exhaust hoses started bubling on the inside. I am surprised the exhaust didn't collapse, I was under the impression of the exhaust gets hot enough it collapses the hose and that kills the motor.

I am thinking he may have dodge a bullet on the coolant in the block.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

yes the exhaust manifold was boiling/steaming/cooking so dang hot, when i put the boat on the lift after a while i saw what at first i thought were "reeds" from the lake coming out the exhaust pipes on the back, i pulled a few out to find that it was actually long strings of fiberglass from the exhaust system

the exhaust blew/separated where the rubber hoses connect.

my issue is that yes perhaps the engine shut down from the exhaust issue but it also fried the super charger and probably in the range of 12-15k cost assuming the engine is no fried then were talking what 25-30k maybe i dont know exactly but not cheap.

someone also mentioned these engines go into Limp mode? Limp mode on the LSA be like this: she runs until the exhaust blows up and your SC is fried, and you dont get any warning on Maliview!

[The Hulk]

LBJ, I just don't see how his gauge would have looked like that. For one, alarms would have been going off but more importantly it would have gine into protect mode in which case Hulk would have noticed something was wrong long before it shut down. Would you not agree?

85; Exactly NO alarms on malivew: i really wish i could speak for the engine temp gauge but i simply cant.... but if so i "would" have received a warning for engine coolant in maliview and surely did not.

I think this thread has established something else: i am the ONLY one on this thread with an LSA SC engine? Seriously Kidding me right? is there not one other out there with an LSA that might be able to help chime in and answer some of the many many questions by the numerous folk on here? i'll be happy to post pics when i get the boat back but assumed there would be at least one on here that could help us out?

Also apart from my bad pre boating precheck we may have a serious issue here!!! (well if you have the LSA) so i guess not important to others out there. but

1. No warnings on Maliview

2. No engine Limp Mode

3. No Audio siren

4. Your engine "might" show cool or within range while your exhaust is off the charts!!!!

5. your exhaust goes off the charts and blows your exhaust system + Super Charger, and possibly other stuff and or possibly engine all while never given you a warning!!!!!

If this is the case this is a terribly engineered bathtub with a LSA motor and based on how nearly nobody has an LSA maybe its something nobody thought of until this has happened to m.....e because this is the only intake hose ever not put on, and hoses never fall off and impellers never go bad, or get clogged or junked up..

As many have stated the exhaust could go sky high before engine temp ever reads out of the norm.

this is getting laughable to me at this point: Everyone on here is loading up their boats with thousands of #s of extra weight to make a big wave. Most engines out there are working their tails off to push these tanks 10mph and especially those with the smaller engines and torque props and heavier weights. My point is whats the big difference between WOT and surfing? if something can go wrong its going to go wrong in a big hurry and perhaps with NON LSA engines you would get more time and a maliview warning but with a SC you may not.

someone asked what happens if your impeller goes bad, well if you have an LSA you might be looking at it...

[The Hulk]

trying to google up some info found this not sure if its same principal with the LSA vs a Turbo D but wondering if its the same for any Super Charger ????

Note underlined:

http://www.bankspower.com/techarticles/show/25-why-egt-is-important

So why is EGT important? EGT is an indication of how hot the combustion process is in the cylinders, and the amount of "afterburning" that is occurring in the exhaust manifold. EGT is also directly related to the air/fuel ratio. The richer the air/fuel ratio in a diesel, the higher the EGT will be. Two things can create a rich mixture under heavy loads or at full throttle: the first is too much fuel, and the second is not enough air. That seems simple enough, but it's the second part, not enough air, that could get a stock, unmodified truck or motorhome in trouble. Anything that restricts intake airflow, or intake air density, limits the air mass that gets to the cylinders. Think of it as the amount of oxygen getting to the cylinders to support the combustion of fuel. This could include: a dirty or restrictive air cleaner, a partially blocked air intake, high outside air temperature, high altitude, restricted airflow to or through the radiator or intercooler, and high water temperature. The vehicle's water temperature gauge will provide a warning of a cooling system problem, but the other problems aren't likely to be noticed without a pyrometer unless the driver notices excessive exhaust smoke. A pyrometer also reacts more quickly than the water temperature gauge, so it allows the driver to spot a problem sooner and avoid engine damage. A restrictive exhaust system can also reduce the airflow through the engine, resulting in a rich condition. Any of the above conditions can result in excessive EGT if the vehicle is working hard, such as pulling a heavy load, running at sustained high speed, subjected to climbing a long grade, etc.

We've already mentioned that excessive EGT can cause engine damage or turbocharger damage, but let's get more specific. Which parts will fail first is a matter of the design and materials used in the various parts of the turbo-diesel, but usually it starts with the turbocharger. Under sustained excessive EGT, the square corners at the outer ends of the vanes, where the material is thinnest on the turbine wheel, can become incandescent and then melt, resulting in a rounding off of the square corners. If you or your mechanic finds this indication before anything more serious happens, consider yourself very lucky, because shortly after the tips melt, the turbine wheel goes out of balance and wipes out the turbocharger bearings, which may or may not result in shaft failure and destruction of the turbine and compressor wheels. Excessive EGT can also erode or crack the turbine housing. In extreme cases, high EGT can drive the turbocharger into an overspeed condition that exceeds the designed operating speed due to the additional heat energy. When this happens, either the turbine wheel or the compressor wheel may burst. If the turbo doesn't go first, excessive EGT, if sustained, will damage the pistons. Such damage can include piston deformation, melting, burning, holes, cracking, etc. This damage is cumulative, so if you slightly burn a piston top, the engine may continue to run without problems, but the next time you run excessive EGT more damage may be done, and so on, until failure occurs. Piston failure can be catastrophic -- that means very expensive. At a minimum, an engine overhaul will be required, and that too is expensive. Excessive EGT can also cause exhaust manifold and cylinder head cracking. Exhaust valves can fail from high EGT as well. Among the first engine parts to suffer damage will be those made of aluminum since aluminum has a lower softening and melting temperature than steel or cast iron. Diesel pistons are aluminum, and a growing number of diesels also use aluminum cylinder heads

[gorilla]

Not sure what point you are trying to show pasting that info, but diesel and gas are 2 totally different animals. Diesel EGT's go up with excessive fuel being burnt in the exhaust, gas EGT's go up when there isn't enough fuel. Not sure how you think this applies to your overheating problem.

Also, I'd like to know how your cooling issue damaged the bearings in the supercharger. The coolant flow through the supercharger is only for the intercooler. This coolant flow cools the air charge after the supercharger and before the motor, resulting in a denser air charge and allowing more HP. That coolant only cools the air, not the supercharger itself. An Eaton supercharger doesn't need any coolant to make it work. They make kits to put on old school carb motors with zero plumbing for coolant lines.

Edited June 2, 2015 by gorilla

[The Hulk]

i just talked to a few car guys a min ago and they mentioned these LSA are put into dun buggies and their number one most important gauge is the EGT gauge. Granted they said mine is stock and i should be able to run her WOT and be well within the means but if you have a SC and are towing and or putting it under load such as surfing with a ton of weight then this would be extremely important in their words. I dont know the exact differences between the TD and the SC engines (thus why i asked) but according to them they are just a TAD different in that the TD is lag for the boost but the SC is instant because its connected to the pulley.But int their words the SC or boost ane EGT gauge for both are very important indications something is going wrong. Again what they were saying they were pretty shocked it wouldnt be a standard gauge on a boat with a SC given your relying on the water intake as your life line and that the engine coolant temp will not reflect a serious issue in time before cooking the exhaust or Super charger. But again in thinking of malibu its probably not worth it as 1% or less probably have the LSA engine and thus why add an extra gizmo to the dash...

again i'm just relying what i'm being told so bouncing this off of people on here for more feedback.

Edited June 2, 2015 by The Hulk

[Deven]

Hulk, you keep saying you didn't get an alarm or warning. You did. You got a big alarm and you still don't understand it.

When you were pumping water out of the bilge, that was your big flashing alarm. You were taking on water. Was there a hole in the hull, drain plug out, or something leaking in the cooling system?

[oldjeep]

The biggest difference between turbo and supercharged and why EGT's matter with a turbo is that your exhaust is running through the turbo.