Michigan Boarder Engine Blueprint and Build

[Michigan boarder]

Yes, I ordered the heads on Monday, but they did not process that because the ship-to was different than the bill-to. So they emailed me this morning and I called them back to clarify. Took 10 seconds, and now the order is processed. They are shipping from Ohio today, so you should see them on Friday.

Ok, I get it now on the spread vs. square bore. On the Performer RPM, the Edlebrock site says that is from 1500rpm to 6500rpm, will idle be an issue at all?

With the weather subsiding a bit I hope to finally get started on some painting, bilge and exhaust work.

Edit: Well, looks like highs in the 20's and lows in the 10's after Thursday. Maybe some exhaust work.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Michigan boarder

[Woodski]

Don't forget, it is not the carb that is the important part, it is the wedge plate... Spread bore pattern to the intake manifold and based on my Edelbrock manifold it is a spread bore pattern, P/N EDL-7104 & also picked up from Summitt. That is an easy one to make a mistake on and have the oh @#$% moment when you open the box.

Just a note to MB, since you are going to become the spray bomb king, the aluminum manifold looks great but over time will develop a slight orange tinge if you don't keep after it (wire brush / brakeclean). I also keep my bilge absolutely dry as I pull the plug on the lift after every session in the water & leave nothing in the bilge. I would suggest either clear coat it or paint to match the rest of the engine.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Woodski

[sgt1970-442]

yeah john send me a pic of the wedge spacer also please. lets make sure this is all on the same page with it.

[Michigan boarder]

Here we are:

[nuttyskier2002]

MB.....what heads are you going with?

[WheelerWake]

Here we are:

Those late model AFB's make swapping manifolds easy with the dual square/spread bolt patterns. The early one's (60's, 70's) didn't have both drilled.

[sgt1970-442]

Here we are:

john, were back to square one with the manifold and spacer being a spread bore and the carb a square bore. like I said, I would like to use the performer rpm and its a square bore. i'll be checking

for a wedge spacer now.

MB.....what heads are you going with?

summit offers a set of iron vortecs that are usa made. stock valve sizes, 175cc intake runner and 67cc chamber.

Those late model AFB's make swapping manifolds easy with the dual square/spread bolt patterns. The early one's (60's, 70's) didn't have both drilled.

even though we have the dual bolt pattern I will be searching for a spacer. the current manifold and spacer are a spread bore and the intake we

will be using is a square bore. as you know the spacer is a must use on a boat because of the engine tilt. so I will be looking for a wedge style square bore spacer.

[sgt1970-442]

john,

heads showed up yesterday. they look like nice stuff.

will get some pics up tomorrow

[Michigan boarder]

That is great!

[sgt1970-442]

here are the heads from summit, they are actually cast and machined by dart. for those that were wondering, these did not end up on the granite tops either.

[WheelerWake]

Those intake ports look taller and rounder on the top than the factory ones. Are they? Look a little like d-ports.

[nuttyskier2002]

Those are some funny shaped ports. Hopefully with some gasket matching Sgt will get them lined up with the intake. I'll post some pix of my Bowties for comparison. It'll probably be Monday before I can get them.

[sgt1970-442]

yes i'll work with them and make them right. when I get a chance I will get a pic of the old head next to the new head and show the difference in the ports.

[EchelonMike]

Siamesed exhaust ports - 3 & 5, overheat did in the head gasket in the weak spot between cylinders 3/5, subsequent detonation due to ignition cross talk once the gasket failed as sgt noted in his piston analysis.

Note the comments on how good everything looks for the 750 hours on the engine bar the catastrophic failed parts. The marine community tends to think 1000 hours is similar to a automobiles 100k miles when in reality it is nowhere close. Seen a few other high hour boats where the engine innards still look great.

I tore down my 5.0 Mustang engine at 136K because I was upgrading the whole driveline...after years of driving the wheels off it, you could still see the cross hatch machine marks on the cylinder walls. Amazing.

These V8s will run WAY longer than most people think, in terms of the rotating assembly...bulletproof as long as something weird does not happen to cause a failure like in this thread.

[sgt1970-442]

I tore down my 5.0 Mustang engine at 136K because I was upgrading the whole driveline...after years of driving the wheels off it, you could still see the cross hatch machine marks on the cylinder walls. Amazing.

These V8s will run WAY longer than most people think, in terms of the rotating assembly...bulletproof as long as something weird does not happen to cause a failure like in this thread.

I've had diesel engines that we've pulled apart with 400-500 thousand miles on them that still have the cross hatch in the liners. proper maintenance and regular oil changes with good oil will help an engine last a long time. only reason we would rebuild most of our truck engines years ago was my grandfather

was the owner and the boss and that's the way he wanted it.

[WheelerWake]

What I've found is every engine that I've had apart (including an abused Neon with 200k miles) that is fuel injected still has the cross hatch. And every engine that had a carb had cylinder wear.

[Sixball]

I tore down my 5.0 Mustang engine at 136K because I was upgrading the whole driveline...after years of driving the wheels off it, you could still see the cross hatch machine marks on the cylinder walls. Amazing.

These V8s will run WAY longer than most people think, in terms of the rotating assembly...bulletproof as long as something weird does not happen to cause a failure like in this thread.

If all is working as it should the rings are not touching the cylinder walls. They are ridding on a very very thin layer of oil. The oil rings are pulling excess oil not by scraping but from a pressure difference. I know some call them A scraper ring but noop. sounds like yours were working.

[nuttyskier2002]

I tore down a 350 TPI motor out of a 1989 Formula Firebird. The motor had almost 100.000 miles. We measured the cylinder wall taper and it was less than .002" and no ridge that I could detect. The oil in this motor was black and looked like it hadn't had regular oil changes. I don't believe the lack pf wear was due to adequate maintenance but rather improved fuel management of today's computer controlled fuel injection. The motor was in running condition but I wanted to go through it as it went in my '89 S-10 Blazer. The donor Firebird was wrecked of course.

[sgt1970-442]

I tore down a 350 TPI motor out of a 1989 Formula Firebird. The motor had almost 100.000 miles. We measured the cylinder wall taper and it was less than .002" and no ridge that I could detect. The oil in this motor was black and looked like it hadn't had regular oil changes. I don't believe the lack pf wear was due to adequate maintenance but rather improved fuel management of today's computer controlled fuel injection. The motor was in running condition but I wanted to go through it as it went in my '89 S-10 Blazer. The donor Firebird was wrecked of course.

hence why I said proper maintenance or proper maintained tune up. plugs, wires, cap, rotor, pcv valve, gas, and air filter back in the day of carburetors was a must. I also feel that regular oil changes back in the day because lack of tunes ups on a carb motor would help with engine wear. cylinder wear because of a rich conditions was a big problem. that's why I say a proper tune with carb adjustments went a long way for engine life.

[nuttyskier2002]

hence why I said proper maintenance or proper maintained tune up. plugs, wires, cap, rotor, pcv valve, gas, and air filter back in the day of carburetors was a must. I also feel that regular oil changes back in the day because lack of tunes ups on a carb motor would help with engine wear. cylinder wear because of a rich conditions was a big problem. that's why I say a proper tune with carb adjustments went a long way for engine life.

Don't get me wrong Sgt.......wasn't trying to start an argument. Just wanted to point out what modern day fuel control systems have contributed to engine life. Actually I'm a firm believer that it's a combination of things.........fuel management, maintenance and improved lubricants available today.

[sgt1970-442]

just a little up date. having to swap the .040 over pistons and rings for .060 over. number 5 cylinder would not clean up and number 8 still had an eye brow in it also. so it will now be a 388cid instead of a 385cid

[Woodski]

Those two make sense as to why, #5 from the gasket failure and #8 from the engine tilt and thus some fuel dilution adding to some wear. 388 has a better ring than 385 anyway! Good luck on the clean up.

[WheelerWake]

just a little up date. having to swap the .040 over pistons and rings for .060 over. number 5 cylinder would not clean up and number 8 still had an eye brow in it also. so it will now be a 388cid instead of a 385cid

I'm not a Chevy guy, but how far can you safely punch one of these out? Also considering that it had/will have lake water in the jacket eating away the cylinders from the other side as well.

[nuttyskier2002]

I seam to remember reading one of the late great Smokey Yunick's books on racing the small block Chevy. He talked about minimum cylinder wall thickness and I'm pretty sure he states that absolute minimum thickness after boring and honing is .090" at it's thinnest location. This sounds very thin as I'm sure many here would agree. But Smokey's engines won a lot of races back then so I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. A good straight block with minimum core shifting would have no problem passing this test bored to .060". And we're not racing our boats.....at least not like NASCAR.

Also.......corrosion of cast iron does not progress near as fast as most think. The first layer of rust on the surface builds up a protective layer and keeps further corrosion from progressing rapidly. This is the same thing that happens when a metal gets anodized.

Edited March 7, 2014 by nuttyskier2002

[sgt1970-442]

.060 over will be no problem. where a thin wall would show up the most is hi rpms, heavy rotating parts and heat.

we really have none of these 160* water, we have lighter than stock rotating assembly and low max rpm's,, as said we are not racing so ring seal won't be an issue.

anything pre 1975 I would probably have the block sonic checked. in 75 gm made and change in the casting and all the 350 blocks after 75 had a thicker wall.