Tige Apex

[Joeprunc]

I read over on the tige board that a dealer quoted 105K for an ARSe....not sure if that's MSRP, a deal, loaded, or not loaded. First of all I have not idea how people foot the bills for these boats (Malibu, MC, Nautique, Tige, or any of the others), I mean buy two of these for the same price of my home...that's just crazy talk. I guess there are lot more people in the "1%" than the internets seem to depict.

Shawndoggy from what I've gathered is Tige actually did a heap ton of testing with this boat. With a lot of riders, primarily wakeboarders. I think this is why they pulled so many people over to their "team". Is to get them all behind the boat. They did much more testing than what they did with the Z3, Z1, and RZ2.

As far as having only one boat, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. MC did that with the new prostar and are creating a ton of buzz with their new boat as they are towing it to all the major competitions around the US. They are probably going to refine the MC as they receive feed back from customers. Its nice seeing companies doing this. Hopefully the Tige will pull a few events both pro and amateur gather feed back, and when they go to production have everything ironed out...for the most part.

[skurfer]

I saw the 6.2 in the new chevy is a $2k upgrade

[shawndoggy]

How about I will come down and pick up the base motor and throw it oin the back of my truck also when I pick up the boat? It's all a racket to me.

Totally. If only there was a way to program the mefi ecm and get it to play nice with those proprietary gauges.... an open source boat would be awesome.

[skurfer]

I get it, it just doesn't seem sustainable.

The marine engine market is just plain insane also for what they wanna charge for those engines. You can buy a ready to rock, 450 HP LS3 with Electronics , cats, everything for 8g RETAIL. What does that tell you about the "upcharge" for an LS3? There aint nothn so revolutionary and fancy about what the marine upfitters are doing with those engines.

How about I will come down and pick up the base motor and throw it oin the back of my truck also when I pick up the boat? It's all a racket to me.

Start marinizing Fords

Edited October 4, 2013 by skurfer

[Bawshogg]

Watch out what you ask for. I have heard some buzz recently about just that .

Turbos in an inboard would be neat.

[Bobby Light]

I think part of the problem is that this type of hull design requires either a big or an enormous motor depending on altitude. This type of hull will be the nail in the 5.7L SBC's coffin that Nitrousbird has been waiting for. Seems like many G owners are opting for the 550, even at fairly low altitudes, because the 450 won't push it (although also pretty sure PCM doesn't offer an LS3 variant, so their "450" is a tweaked version of the 6.0).

In any case, though, once you start requiring a $10-$20k engine upgrade, what's another $5-10K in electronics and clamping board racks and cushions that hold themselves open?

PCM had really bad luck with that 450 variant, I know of 4 out of 5 boats in my area with that motor option that blew, the 409's did not. More than a coincidence.

[TenTwentyOne]

The marine engine market is just plain insane also for what they wanna charge for those engines. You can buy a ready to rock, 450 HP LS3 with Electronics , cats, everything for 8g RETAIL. What does that tell you about the "upcharge" for an LS3? There aint nothn so revolutionary and fancy about what the marine upfitters are doing with those engines.

You are 100% right, and I never understood this........ The "upgrade" charge over the 5.7l, is as much, or more, than buying the complete engine from chevy performance. And its not like the marine goodies cost more on a 6.2l, compared to a 5.7l.

[nyryan2001]

Shawn- Nautique had Gs on the lots for sale at the end of July 2012, which means they would have had to have been copying Tige's lines from 2010-2011. Which boat specifically do you think the G mirrors most on the Tige line from 2010-11, post up pics? Not sure I follow. The closest copycat I know of recently was the 2013 Moombas trying to mirror Malibu... and the Supra. NOTHING has been as close of a rip off as this ASR, I think most folks would agree. I ougtta post of pics from the lower rear. Ridiciulous. And the Xstar IMO looks nothing like either, its hull is an original design.

Bobby- I dont think the majority of folks are "paying" $130k for $130k wakeboats. Not even close. they finance the $130k, but the way you can stretch out payments and flip them, its more akin to a lease then paying $130k cash for the boat. And I can tell you from experience, last two boats flipped...$30k / yr depreciation? Not even close. Try 2-4k, even with 80-100hrs / yr put on the boats. Depends on the demand in the local market for wakeboats, specifically which boat, which options, colors.... those specific boats highest in demand.... and you gotta have good credit of course a great dealer, and your gotta keep your boats in pristine condition.

[Bawshogg]

Payments on 130k are in no way anything to joke about. Even on a 20 year note. So you think the majority of these customers roll in no money down and just finance the whole amount? 20% down is still $26000.00. That's real money to me. Good credit and all , what kinda cake do you have to pull down a year to be able to get approved on that large a loan no money down? This is what I am talking about.

I didnt mean used market sale per say. I was meaning more along the lines of trade value for repeat customers. The dealers around here a very light on trade values from what I have seen.

Selling a boat is a PITA and I am just not into working that much every year. Although I have sold a few and did well on my last one,...it was a LONG ordeal. BUT IT was still very similar to what was currently on the market. They guy that bought it was wieghing it VS. new. And it was quite a bit less.

It all seems wierd to me. Why buy a used boat from last year if the price differnce is just 2-4k less than a new one? That's a no brainer to me. I think on average you see at least a 5-10k loss in the first year in this area depending on what boat it is and what you paid new.

[shawndoggy]

ryan, you think the wetted surface is the same? Cuz I watched that reveal vid where there were driving that test mule around the lake, and depth of that keel line towards the front of the boat looked nothing like anything I've seen (though granted I've not studied the G23's keel line from the front under power).

the two look alike like a late 80s rx7 looks like a 944, or like a fiero looks like an MR2. There's a resemblance, sure, but I don't think it's a "ripoff" or a "copy" of the G hull. Styling wise, tige's definitely taking a risk, tho, because of that resemblance (and the resulting assertions that it IS a ripoff). I don't see how making the boat intentionally look like a g really helps tige at all, because, let's face it, the G23 is ugly. A great wake tractor to be sure, but not "classic" by any means. So what I meant by it being evolutionary for Tige is that they've been doing kinda ugly slab-sided pickleforks for a long time. This boat looks more like the apex than the 210 or 230 looks like the G for sure:

[skurfer]

How many folks are financing and how many are writing a check? I know financing a new X-Star for a customer took more than 20% down, verified large amount of cash in bank for payments, letter of credit from bank, etc.

[nyryan2001]

Alright Shawn, you are right, this isnt a rip off. orginal design. Completely original lol.

[nyryan2001]

Payments on 130k are in no way anything to joke about. Even on a 20 year note. So you think the majority of these customers roll in no money down and just finance the whole amount? 20% down is still $26000.00. That's real money to me. Good credit and all , what kinda cake do you have to pull down a year to be able to get approved on that large a loan no money down? This is what I am talking about.

I didnt mean used market sale per say. I was meaning more along the lines of trade value for repeat customers. The dealers around here a very light on trade values from what I have seen.

Selling a boat is a PITA and I am just not into working that much every year. Although I have sold a few and did well on my last one,...it was a LONG ordeal. BUT IT was still very similar to what was currently on the market. They guy that bought it was wieghing it VS. new. And it was quite a bit less.

It all seems wierd to me. Why buy a used boat from last year if the price differnce is just 2-4k less than a new one? That's a no brainer to me. I think on average you see at least a 5-10k loss in the first year in this area depending on what boat it is and what you paid new.

Bobby- You are right selling and buying is a PITA. registration, paperwork, stereo, ballast, all of it. agree fully. I am keeping my current boat, no trading for me any time soon.

it is wierd.... the boats are pricey and folks want to get into them... and are willing to take 80-100hrs on the clock to save the 5-7k off a new one.

Now...2-4k yrly depreciation with a year's worth of hours, 80-100... doesnt take into account the $5k price in crease for the next year's model. thats where the 5-7k spread comes from and boyeys the price on slightly used high demand boats.

When folks flip... they are still paying more the the next year's model.

[TenTwentyOne]

How many folks are financing and how many are writing a check? I know financing a new X-Star for a customer took more than 20% down, verified large amount of cash in bank for payments, letter of credit from bank, etc.

What?? Financed through who? I have never been asked for letters from a bank, or to have any saved cash for payments......

[skurfer]

What?? Financed through who? I have never been asked for letters from a bank, or to have any saved cash for payments......

Local bank. It was their first time financing $120k boat.

Edited October 4, 2013 by skurfer

[CJAY]

Local bank. It was there first time financing $120k boat.

What was their credit rating and income?

[shawndoggy]

Alright Shawn, you are right, this isnt a rip off. orginal design. Completely original lol.

So are you saying they "look alike" or that it's a "ripoff"? Like you think it's actually a copy of the hull, or just that the styling cues are the same? didn't nautique sue a bunch of people over the original wakeboard tower? Would seem like a no-brainer to sue over stealing a whole hull.

My point was only that if I was trying to find a parent for this ugly style of snubnosed boat, I'd look to Tige first. Neither the G nor the Apex look like anything else in Nautique's lineup.

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, after all.

[Bawshogg]

What?? Financed through who? I have never been asked for letters from a bank, or to have any saved cash for payments......

I never have in the past either. This last one was the first time I have ever encountered anything like that. They asked for statment of worth basically. Had to list all assets, payments, liabilities and incomes. I had to provide a copy of my last paycheck and a proof of yearly income from my employer.

I have very good credit and decent DTI. I was confused as I never had to jump through so many hoops, but it was worth it for the interest savings. I thinks the banks are just trying to be more secure in lending now days.

[Fman]

I friend of mine were talking the other day and wondering if dealers have lease options? Seems it could make sense for the boat flippers. These boats hold resale.

With 15 year financing basically people are renting there boats. We all know buyers are not going to "pay off" the boat and keep it for 15 years, there main concern is monthly payment amount. If I were a dealer I would be doing the same thing.... these numbers are a little staggering for me. Maybe I am old school, I always save up and pay cash for my toys. I also heard you can now get a 20 year loan on a wakeboard boat??? is that true???

$125k boat price, 10% down = $12,500, Loan amount = $112,500

6% interest rate

5 year loan = $2,174/month, 10 year loan = $1,248/month, 15 year loan = $949/month, 20 year loan = $805/month

In California on a $125,000 boat you would be paying approx. $1,200/year in luxury taxes on the boat so add another $100/month on top of the loan.

I have a question for anyone to answer, could someone put 10% down on a $125k boat, finance for 15 years and be able to sell there boat in three years to pay off the loan???? or would they be coming out of pocket to make up for depreciation hit exceeding the loan balance being payed down??? What is really scary is we bought our first house in 1994, my house payment was $1215 a month!!!!

Edited October 4, 2013 by Fman

[shawndoggy]

With 15 year financing basically people are renting there boats. We all know buyers are not going to "pay off" the boat and keep it for 15 years, there main concern is monthly payment amount. If I were a dealer I would be doing the same thing.... these numbers are a little staggering for me. Maybe I am old school, I always save up and pay cash for my toys. I also heard you can now get a 20 year loan on a wakeboard boat??? is that true???

$125k boat price, 10% down = $12,500, Loan amount = $112,500

6% interest rate

5 year loan = $2,174/month, 10 year loan = $1,248/month, 15 year loan = $949/month, 20 year loan = $805/month

In California on a $125,000 boat you would be paying approx. $1,200/year in luxury taxes on the boat so add another $100/month on top of the loan.

I have a question for anyone to answer, could someone put 10% down on a $125k boat, finance for 15 years and be able to sell there boat in three years to pay off the loan???? or would they be coming out of pocket to make up for depreciation hit exceeding the loan balance being payed down??? What is really scary is we bought our first house in 1994, my house payment was $1215 a month!!!!

I think you could probably get back more than you owe in todays market (you'd owe about $97K, and would've spent almost $47k in principal, interest, and downpayment in that three years). Lots of nice boats out there right now that you could own outright for $47K...

I'm with you fman, it's crazy trying to pencil out bawlin.

[Bawshogg]

I think you be lucky to break even on the sale with that rental plan. Not to mention you just threw away 47gs on around 25 boat rides not counting gas. Lol.

That's where I see the problem arising. In 2-3 years where will be with the industry as a whole? What percentage of your customer base can continue to sustain that type of loss to get into the "sweet" new technology?

I know I am not baller enough to keep up with it, and I won't. How many others can say that honestly? I think a lot more than will admit it. So what is your target audience? Incomes over 200k per anum?

Seems like there must be a large group of the population that has 900 bucks a month spare to spend on a depreciating asset. :don't know:

And yes Fman, they will offer 20 year loans on wakeboats now. They have gotten so expensive the classify them with cabin cruisers and the like because of price.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Bobby Bright

[Bawshogg]

Side note: I was recently told by the Natique rep. G25 MSRP $162,000. With the 555hp. :wow:

[wheelman]

Can someone tell my why you'd ever need 555hp in a wakeboat. I mean how much weight do you need to put in it to need that much, why not just prop down and have a 350 to 450hp motor and a fat wallet

[Bawshogg]

Have you seen a G25?

[wheelman]

You mean that ugly thing that looks like a barge?