Anyone tried the 5 blade 2259?

[Bawshogg]

I don't think so. When the 5 blades first came out for our applications there was a lot of buzz, but it quickly fizzled when there were several reviews and they didn't offer anything much more over a 4 blade, and in certain areas they were worse. Acme offers a 30 day satisfaction guarantee. Why not just give it a shot?

I spoke with Acme a bit about this before deciding on the 2315 for my boat. They steered me away from the 5 blade also...and it's expensive! Imagine that?

I think the 2079 is gonna be your buds best bet if he can fit a 14.5" prop.

Something in 12-13 pitch range should suit that boat well.

http://www.acmemarine.com/prop-list_ski-boat.php

Interesting fact. They don't make much Ina 3 blade anywhere near the pitch and diameter I would need or most of the others running 1235 or 537. Guess you have to have one custom made.

What are the specs on that prop? Don't see it on the chart.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Bobby Bright

[Vettesetter]

14.5 x 13.5 .105 cup

I think he's going for the 1433

Edited September 24, 2013 by Vettesetter Z06

[happypappy]

I'm going to throw my 2.5 cents into the ring and do my best to use words that I Googled to make it sound authoritative... Non-laminar flow fluid dynamics is very complicated science--border line black magic. There are MANY factors that affect prop performance/efficiency.

I would "guess" more blades increases the holding power or grabbing action to the water (for a given prop diameter), which decreases slippage for every rotation of the prop. Stated another way, you get closer to the ideal model for a given prop (e.g., advancing 12" for every rotation on a 12 pitch prop). This increases efficiency. However, I would also guess that more blades means more surface area and therefore more frictional forces when spinning the prop. This decreases efficiency. These factors are competing and I'd bet the farm one or both are non-linear with RPMs.

I'll further guess that when everything is considered, four is better than three, which is better than five for our tournament wake boats--since 4 blades have become the standard.

The middle paragraph is pretty much correct...but no black magic involved. laminar flow is the most stable and most efficient flow your typical open channel flow or fluid in a pipe either gravity or under pressure, non laminar is erractic flow, not efficient. and yes frictional forces (the rotation of the prop) is/are a non linear function. Almost any dynamic function where velocity is involved will be an exponential function/algorithm. Velocity is almost always squared.

That being said, by adding 33% more surface area (4 blades are 33% more than 3, so there is 33% more surface area creating friction as it spins) why would you guess 4 blades are better than 3 blades? Guessing in engineering is a good place to start, but not to end up with.

[Vettesetter]

Really?

[Bawshogg]

We have found the "David" of propellers. The heavens shall part soon. OMG.

[Wakesetter67]

Ok thats funny stuff right there, Face it happypappy Kinda got it handed to you!!

Edited September 24, 2013 by Wakesetter67

[Bawshogg]

14.5 x 13.5 .105 cup

I think he's going for the 1433

If he is only gonna run the 1100's that may be a good choice, but with more weight I would step down in the pitch a bit for a dedicated surf boat.

The middle paragraph is pretty much correct...but no black magic involved. laminar flow is the most stable and most efficient flow your typical open channel flow or fluid in a pipe either gravity or under pressure, non laminar is erractic flow, not efficient. and yes frictional forces (the rotation of the prop) is/are a non linear function. Almost any dynamic function where velocity is involved will be an exponential function/algorithm. Velocity is almost always squared.

That being said, by adding 33% more surface area (4 blades are 33% more than 3, so there is 33% more surface area creating friction as it spins) why would you guess 4 blades are better than 3 blades? Guessing in engineering is a good place to start, but not to end up with.

What works on paper and what really works well in the given application are often two different things. Given the options on the chart I posted , what 3 blade would give ME better performance for MY application?

6000k boat, 4k ballast, and the ability to have another 2-3k in people........... 15" max diameter.

Edited September 24, 2013 by Bobby Bright

[happypappy]

If he is only gonna run the 1100's that may be a good choice, but with more weight I would step down in the pitch a bit for a dedicated surf boat.

What works on paper and what really works well in the given application are often two different things. Given the options on the chart I posted , what 3 blade would give ME better performance for MY application?

6000k boat, 4k ballast, and the ability to have another 2-3k in people........... 15" max diameter.

What happened to Eric and his recommendation??

[longbeard]

Someone needs to call MTI and let them know that they are losing all kinds of performance.

[Falko]

That being said, by adding 33% more surface area (4 blades are 33% more than 3, so there is 33% more surface area creating friction as it spins) why would you guess 4 blades are better than 3 blades? Guessing in engineering is a good place to start, but not to end up with.

I don't think this argument can be made. Three and four blade props have different size lobes. The bigger resistance change will come from blades splitting water instead of three.

[happypappy]

Ok thats funny stuff right there, Face it happypappy Kinda got it handed to you!!

OMG!! How will I ever recover from such a humiliating AND embarrassing defeat?? Specially when beaten by the likes of tweedle dee and tweedle dumber!!

Thank goodness I have my 3 blade to console me!!

[happypappy]

Someone needs to call MTI and let them know that they are losing all kinds of performance.

SO are you just showing off your ability to cut and paste?? Gotta show off you new skillz?? hope you got a gold star for the day!!

You forgot this one too:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dezignstuff.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/propacarlson.jpg&imgrefurl=http://cadcammodelling.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/submarines-propellers-and-cadcam-in-military-shipbuilding/&h=888&w=922&sz=115&tbnid=femDrJTmPFNX8M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=93&zoom=1&usg=__N4zwqZ_yFITcmWhSqQGD5nVWFAY=&docid=bUX54E56A4XYWM&sa=X&ei=taxBUridHKSDjALp2IHwBA&sqi=2&ved=0CC4Q9QEwAA&dur=5366

Edited September 24, 2013 by happypappy

[longbeard]

Not showing my ability to cut and paste, I am showing my abiltiy to reason. Sometimes 5 blades work better than 4, and 4 better than 3. Keep sticking to your guns though. With every post you lose just a little more credibility on this forum.

[Wakesetter67]

OMG!! How will I ever recover from such a humiliating AND embarrassing defeat?? Specially when beaten by the likes of tweedle dee and tweedle dumber!!

Thank goodness I have my 3 blade to console me!!

I love it when you result to name calling, A sure fire call of defeat, Your a stubborn Cuss aren't you!! LOL Abandon ship...Abandon ship...

[Bobby Light]

OMG!! How will I ever recover from such a humiliating AND embarrassing defeat?? Specially when beaten by the likes of tweedle dee and tweedle dumber!!

Thank goodness I have my 3 blade to console me!!

Who exactly are you referring to here, inquiring minds want to know?

[Nitrousbird]

SO are you just showing off your ability to cut and paste?? Gotta show off you new skillz?? hope you got a gold star for the day!!

You forgot this one too:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.dezignstuff.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/propacarlson.jpg&imgrefurl=http://cadcammodelling.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/submarines-propellers-and-cadcam-in-military-shipbuilding/&h=888&w=922&sz=115&tbnid=femDrJTmPFNX8M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=93&zoom=1&usg=__N4zwqZ_yFITcmWhSqQGD5nVWFAY=&docid=bUX54E56A4XYWM&sa=X&ei=taxBUridHKSDjALp2IHwBA&sqi=2&ved=0CC4Q9QEwAA&dur=5366

Thanks for comparing a submarine to a boat.

What was just proven was a 5 blade prop used in an application where top speed is important, which 100% contradicts your statements.

Of course you just know how the LS3 makes less power than the 350 Monsoon too, even though all the evidence (both on paper and user accounts) shows otherwise.

[Bawshogg]

Who exactly are you referring to here, inquiring minds want to know?

Yes, I concur. Please enlighten us as to WHO your generalized statements were directed to?

[Bobby Light]

Well I spoke with Greg over at ACME today (didn't think there was a need to talk to OJ since we are talking ACME props here) and he laughed when I mentioned using a 3 blade on a modern day wakeboat with 1.5:1 gear reduction. He said a 3 blade has no business on any wakeboat as its designed for top speed on boats equipped with a 1:1 gear reduction such as ski boats that slalom ski and barefoot. He went on to say that at the IBEX show he just came back from the boat Manufacturers stated the sales of 1:1 boats is so slim they are going away from the 1:1 gear reduction.

Bottom line, as confirmed by the people that engineer/design/test these props is that a 3 blade is not for a wakeboard/wake surf boat with 1.5:1 gear reduction (this includes your boat notsohappypappy). Feel free to call the fine folks at ACME names and question their intelligence, as I'm sure you will assert they have no idea what they are talking about just like you have done over and over about the members in this thread.

[ryangb]

Game, set, match.

[Wakesetter67]

notsohappypappy) Again that's funny stuff right there!!

[daylorb]

Well I spoke with Greg over at ACME today (didn't think there was a need to talk to OJ since we are talking ACME props here) and he laughed when I mentioned using a 3 blade on a modern day wakeboat with 1.5:1 gear reduction. He said a 3 blade has no business on any wakeboat as its designed for top speed on boats equipped with a 1:1 gear reduction such as ski boats that slalom ski and barefoot. He went on to say that at the IBEX show he just came back from the boat Manufacturers stated the sales of 1:1 boats is so slim they are going away from the 1:1 gear reduction.

Bottom line, as confirmed by the people that engineer/design/test these props is that a 3 blade is not for a wakeboard/wake surf boat with 1.5:1 gear reduction (this includes your boat notsohappypappy). Feel free to call the fine folks at ACME names and question their intelligence, as I'm sure you will assert they have no idea what they are talking about just like you have done over and over about the members in this thread.

Hold on a second here. I'm not sure I buy this. To be clear - did you clarify with ACME that you were asking about 3 vs. 4 blade performance in the Bizzarro World, or in the normal reality we live in? That might change their answer...

[Bobby Light]

Hold on a second here. I'm not sure I buy this. To be clear - did you clarify with ACME that you were asking about 3 vs. 4 blade performance in the Bizzarro World, or in the normal reality we live in? That might change their answer...

I did say "real world performance" and that was the answer I was given. I hope it pertains to the reality in which we live...

[happypappy]

Is your boat a direct drive? What vdrives have you tried with 3 blades? Do they have 1:1 or gear reduction transmissions?

All Malibus DD have a 1:1 transmission, the only time they don't is at some sanctioned tournaments, and sometimes they'll use a reduction trans. But that is not very common.

Not sure about any of the v drives and what trans they use.

Edited September 24, 2013 by happypappy

[WakeGirl]

Okay, another reminder. Let's get this back on topic please. The OP asked about 5 bladed props & surfing, & whether or not anyone has experience with that setup.

[happypappy]

I guess I am kinda confused happypappy, are you saying that there is a circumstance in which you think a 4 blade out performs a 3 blade? Because in the earlier posts it seemed that you thought there was not and I think that is why you got some push back.

Lots of places a 4 blade will work better..again...these blanket wild orifice assumptions by some on this posting are at best juvenile and simply uninformed!! specially when dealing with the ever encompassing "decrease in performance"!!..whatever that means. As I am sure if 5 were asked, you'd garner 5 different answers....and all 5 would be correct. you've seen the pics on the I/Os with a 5 blade prop...but then lets say those not knowing and haven't a clue or are busy throwing their panties in the back of their pick up, those props run at rpms never seen on a ski boat...so of course that prop's design criteria will be completely different than say what you'd see on a submarine, a tug boat or a 100,000 ton nuclear aircraft carrier. So we've introduced such extremes within this post, than any meeting of the minds would be highly improbable.

So although the name calling has been entertaining, I just consider the source. I have found those who can't argue from a point of knowledge typically resort to name calling somewhere along in the debate. Or as one did, I am going to call so so, which is akin to saying I'll get my big brother and he'll beat you up!! As has been the case here.

There is no one prop for all circumstances. There never will be. You have an almost infinite number of variables such as boat, boat type, construction material, wetted surface area, elevation, going as far as a change in frictional force (Cd, drag coefficient) when calculating fresh water vs salt water, prop material, etc. ANd as knowledgable as the folks are at Acme and OJ, they both offer a refund if not satisfied, cause there is NO ONE prop that will do it all. ANd that is why Acme and OJ make soo many different props. To blindly say ONLY 4 blades will work, well is grossly naiive. I have a boat house of props I have tried over the years/decades, and have yet to find a prop that does it all. Some did not work at all.

I simply stated the facts, which are going from a 3 blade to a 4 blade, you'll experience more gas consumption and lower speed at WOT...which is all due to the increased frictional forces due to the added blade. If that is not a problem, then A 4 blade might be just whatca need, or a 3 blade with less pitch might work as well. Changing/reducing pitch is always an option. ANd I have seen incredible improvements by cupping a prop....and those who can cup a prop to match an operator's wishes are almost magicians.