Surf Gate - My experience - not impressed.

[85 Barefoot]

Honestly my exp with the wedge is that less is more for surfing. On my boat we put it all the way down, on the LSV 2 clicks up was perfect. Too much wedge washes the face of the wave badly

There;s a sweet spot in every boat BUT in a "traditional" situation, the more angle on the wedge, if you do the angle analysis, will actually fight to "straighten" up the boat. In a SG setting, especially with just factory weight in a 23 foot boat, you need more wedge to get the rear diggin'.

[CJAY]

HE didn't say he expected it to surf "great", but, in fact, that 23 will easily meet what he defined as his expectations. Heck my VTX did. I took all kind of flack on here telling me I didn't know what a great surf wave was, yadda yadda, when in fcat, it was. My factory VTX SG was better wake than my buddy's 11 wakesetter with some additional weight all day long.

I guess my expectations are much higher for a surf wave. I throw over 3000lbs at my vtx and get one hell of a surf wave. It's still nothing compared to well weighted SG LSV though

[Afun]

I know it takes the LSV more weight to get a good wave. The VLX with stock ballast hard tanks 250 bow, 500 midship, 250 right rear, 250 left rear and 550 Plug n' play right rear locker and 550Plug n' Play left rear locker. 10.6 mph with wedge half to fully deployed.

[CJAY]

The wake was good better than my vlx but it was do to weighting and people moving more than the surf gate.

An the "surf advance" setting was just my bad memory from a month ago. Your correct surf right and surf left and we had to drain the opposite ballast.

We had a boat full so much so that the boat would not plain out at the wakeboard advance pre-set.

I've never had to move anyone in the LSV with SG. I've surfed it with as few as 2 people int he boat and as many as 14. Once you drain the opposite tank you basically took out all the things SG does to help you surf.

[85 Barefoot]

The wake was good better than my vlx but it was do to weighting and people moving more than the surf gate.

An the "surf advance" setting was just my bad memory from a month ago. Your correct surf right and surf left and we had to drain the opposite ballast.

We had a boat full so much so that the boat would not plain out at the wakeboard advance pre-set.

If you had a new 23 that would not plane with factory weight means you also had a prop issue. ryan has done a nice job of explaining the benefits of a torquier prop on the surf wave. Sounds like a bone stock 23 with people who didn't knmow how to set it up....don't let that dissuade you from thinking SG is not all its cracked up to be.

[demo9asx]

I can't seem to find a video someone posted not too long ago showing his properly setup VLX with SG. Looks pretty good to me but additional weight is the key. Pretty sure the guy had close to 2000lbs on top of stock ballast.

I don't know any boat out there that can throw a mean surf wave with only stock ballast unless you have like 12 people on board.

[TallRedRider]

If I get a surf gate boat it will not be because I am deluded into thinking that it does not need more than stock ballast.

[85 Barefoot]

I guess my expectations are much higher for a surf wave. I throw over 3000lbs at my vtx and get one hell of a surf wave. It's still nothing compared to well weighted SG LSV though

Maybe, but the point was a 23 w SG could easily accomplish what the OP said his expecttaions were

[CJAY]

Maybe, but the point was a 23 w SG could easily accomplish what the OP said his expecttaions were

I don't know what an LSV stock would be like, I don't think it's worth trying when you get to see the glory of a weighted one. Anyone who wants a good surf wave knows you need ballast above stock on a BU. these aren't deep V boats

[martinarcher]

Sorry man but there are way too many of us that have seen first hand what a SG alone will add to the surf experience. IMO, if you expect any boat to throw a killer surf wave with stock ballast your expecting too much. Your comparing a boat you have added weight and lots of time messing with to something you rode once for a short time. Not a fair comparison IMO.

IMO, the longer pocket is great, but the best part about SG is you can switch goofy/regular while riding. I love it. You can also surf and board with close to the same ballast config and not have to drive a boat with a rub rail in the water.

[nyryan2001]

a 23LSV, 350 motor, Acme 2313, 2315 or 2419. 750-1100 in both trunks, full OEM ballast, 11.6mph, wedge 70-90%.

[85 Barefoot]

Speed and/or wedge issue, period. Even stock that wake should be good and certainly much better than described.

[CJAY]

Speed and/or wedge issue, period. Even stock that wake should be good and certainly much better than described.

Agreed this sounds more like user error than anything else

[Lance B. Johnson]

Or you don't know how to setup the weight for a surfgate boat. Too many pictures/videos here of SG boats putting out huge/clean wakes to belive what you are saying. Even the boats that have an issue with spray (mostly the MXZ's) still have a strong SG wake.

Huge/ clean doesn't mean good. Sorry.

[SurfgateBob]

I read all the post about the Surf Gate and how awesome it is and how it's a must have on a new boat. Well in my one experience with it it wasn't that great and I wasn't impressed. Let me start by saying I am by no means a novice to wakeboard/ski boats, wakeboarding or surfing. I mostly wakeboard and put around 100+ hours a year on my 04 VLX with 1123+ hours on it. It's a great boat and does everything well, it surfs just fine and even last night I switched sides while the boat was moving just by having the driver fill the other rear sack and having the two passengers switch sides.

Now to my experience with the surf gate, a month ago while at lake Powell the neighboring house boat had a new 2013 23 LSV with Surf Gate, and only 14 hours on it. They where new to Wakeboard/ski boats so we offered to teach them to surf and they gladly accepted. First my friend who pretty much only surfs went, with the boat set to the advanced surf configurations on the screen the surf wake wasn't good, it was really washy, we had 7 adults and 4 kids in the boat and we confirmed that the surf gate was deployed to the opposite side. To improve the surf wake I asked them drain the opposite ballast and for the adults to move to the surf side then bam the surf wake was good just like on my non surf gate boat. I also surfed this setup and the surf wake was good but whenever we would fill both rear ballasts the surf wake wasn't near as good. So If I was considering another boat the surf gate definitely would not be my determing factor, but that's just my experience with it, to me it does a little bit but not near as much as the hype would lead you to believe. A good surf wake comes from proper weighting of the boat more than the surf gate.

Sometimes the wedge doesn't deploy if you mess with the preset. I've seen that happen a couple times on my boat. Even Wakegirl liked the wave behind a stock ballast surfgate boat :-) I think the stock wave is fine and you can surf it ropeless no problem but I do think adding some ballast to the stern and bow will make it even better.

[SurfgateBob]

I don't know what an LSV stock would be like, I don't think it's worth trying when you get to see the glory of a weighted one. Anyone who wants a good surf wave knows you need ballast above stock on a BU. these aren't deep V boats

Here's a stock ballast LSV with 6 people in the boat at this year's Norcal WOW.

[CJAY]

Justin: you're not alone. I rode behind a 23lsv, SG, wedge, 750 PnP in rear lockers, 250 in walkthru, 2 people. The wave was big and really clean, but hooked significantly and was very soft.

IMO: surfgates value lies soley in the ability to switch sides and not list the boat. That's a huge plus for some people. .... And to be honest, I would love to have that ability..... BUT I'm not convinced at all (yet?) that it creates the type of wave I prefer (fast, firm, long, with no hooking). To me, that's not a trade I'd make: wave for convenience.

Also, a vast majority of the folks riding these waves are riding big, directional, foam-core boards with large fins. That says something about the type of wave theyre riding IMO.

Also, I've searched high and low for videos of these SG waves producing the type of riding and board selection proving the wave is firm and fast and I've found a grand total of (maybe) 1...from a VLX with SG that was weighted heavily.

You had too little weight in the bow vs how much you have in the back. The general rule is 60% in the bow of what you have in the lockers. The more boat you put in the water the harder and longer your wave will be, this is same rule you use for a solid poppy wake. Wakes with too much transom weight vs bow weight will be big and soft.

You were running almost 2000lbs in the lockers and only 300lbs in the bow, the 250 in the walk through helped, but not enough of it was up front. In my boat I run 60% bow, but on the LSV we demoed we ran 50%, and it was a long hard wake with no hook. We were riding a ronix one skim board. Surf gate is just a tool, you still have to put in the time to figure out how to dial in the boat. Once you have it I have yet to see a wave it's equal. After riding the LSV we rode my buddies RZ2, which has a great surf wake, but it was terrible in comparison.

Edited July 16, 2013 by CJAY

[UpperleftWake]

Justin: you're not alone. I rode behind a 23lsv, SG, wedge, 750 PnP in rear lockers, 250 in walkthru, 2 people. The wave was big and really clean, but hooked significantly and was very soft.

IMO: surfgates value lies soley in the ability to switch sides and not list the boat. That's a huge plus for some people. .... And to be honest, I would love to have that ability..... BUT I'm not convinced at all (yet?) that it creates the type of wave I prefer (fast, firm, long, with no hooking). To me, that's not a trade I'd make: wave for convenience.

Also, a vast majority of the folks riding these waves are riding big, directional, foam-core boards with large fins. That says something about the type of wave theyre riding IMO.

Also, I've searched high and low for videos of these SG waves producing the type of riding and board selection proving the wave is firm and fast and I've found a grand total of (maybe) 1...from a VLX with SG that was weighted heavily.

RayRay?

[sabre]

You had too little weight in the bow vs how much you have in the back. The general rule is 60% in the bow of what you have in the lockers. The more boat you put in the water the harder and longer your wave will be, this is same rule you use for a solid poppy wake. Wakes with too much transom weight vs bow weight will be big and soft.

You were running almost 2000lbs in the lockers and only 300lbs in the bow, the 250 in the walk through helped, but not enough of it was up front. In my boat I run 60% bow, but on the LSV we demoed we ran 50%, and it was a long hard wake with no hook. We were riding a ronix one skim board. Surf gate is just a tool, you still have to put in the time to figure out how to dial in the boat. Once you have it I have yet to see a wave it's equal. After riding the LSV we rode my buddies RZ2, which has a great surf wake, but it was terrible in comparison.

I think the above photo says it all. To get that kind of wave on my 2012, LSV I'd have to have the rub rail at least 6 inches closer to the water. The even weighting in my opinion also is easier on the engine, not all the fluids are moving to one side of the engine. I rode a stock 2013 LSV a few weekends a go and it was great! We didn't have any additional weight so it wasn't the dialed in huge wave that I've been used to on mine, but... there was no additional sacs, we went switched goofy and regular riders instantly, and it was certainly rideable. A little more weight and I think it would have greatly improved. Every time I meet up with one of my surfing friends, they always are telling me how much weight a malibu takes to get a great surf wake, that doesn't change with SG, it just makes the other things easier. It will be on my next Malibu.

[JustinOSU]

This is my 200lbs buddy on a 54 inch phase 5 surf board, with 450lbs sack in the back corner replacing stock hard tank and 500lbs mid-ship stock, 6 adults and the floating wedge behind my 04 vlx at 11mph. That's only 250lbs above stock. Again I'm not denying that a boat with the surf gate doesn't make a bigger wake I'm just saying it didn't impress me.

Next time someone with the surf gate is out making a huge surf wake please take a picture of your surf wake with and without the Surf Gate just for the sake of comparison. I would guess that they would be similar, I have a buddy with a 2011 23ft Axis and he weights the crap out of it and has the biggest surf make I've seen, we have nicked named him big wave Dave.

Edited July 17, 2013 by JustinOSU

[CJAY]

This is my 200lbs buddy on a 54 inch phase 5 surf board, with 450lbs sack in the back corner replacing stock hard tank and 500lbs mid-ship stock, 6 adults and the floating wedge behind my 04 vlx at 11mph. That's only 250lbs above stock. Again I'm not denying that a boat with the surf gate doesn't make a bigger wake I'm just saying it didn't impress me.

Next time someone with the surf gate is out making a huge surf wake please take a picture of your surf wake with and without the Surf Gate just for the sake of comparison. I would guess that they would be similar, I have a buddy with a 2011 23ft Axis and he weights the crap out of it and has the biggest surf make I've seen, we have nicked named him big wave Dave.

I don't think anyone with SG will surf without them, it's that much better. Compare your pic above to mine on the LSV. That's a hard chest high wave Vs the knee high one on yours. A properly weighted LSV is going to put out a much better wave than any A22, with or without SG, trust me on this. My properly weighted VTX throws a better surf wave than any A22 I've seen

Edited July 17, 2013 by CJAY

[JustinOSU]

That is a good looking wave, thigh high in my opinion and I doubt the girl in your picture is near 6ft tall like the guy in mine. And again I don't doubt that a SG boat can make a big wave but my expectation was that it would be easy and we would be blown away by it. All the posts above have confirmed that even with the SG it's not easy to make a good wave. You still need extra ballast and it distributed correctly. My boat can also make a bigger surf wake when we apply ballast but on the day that picture was taken we where there to wakeboard and just surfed later in the day for fun when the water became a little choppy.

Edited July 17, 2013 by JustinOSU

[CJAY]

That is a good looking wave, thigh high in my opinion and I doubt the girl in your picture is near 6ft tall like the guy in mine.

She is 5'10, but that's my VTX not the LSV. LSV was between my waist and chest and I'm 6'1. That VTX is about 2200lbs of ballast 6 people in the boat.

[CJAY]

That is a good looking wave, thigh high in my opinion and I doubt the girl in your picture is near 6ft tall like the guy in mine. And again I don't doubt that a SG boat can make a big wave but my expectation was that it would be easy and all the posts above have confirmed that even with the SG it's not easy to make a good wave. You still need extra ballast and it distributed correctly. My boat can also make a bigger surf wake when we apply ballast but on the day in question we where there to wakeboard and just surfed later in the day for fun when the water became a little choppy.

Making a good wave is all about dialing, it's never easy. I see tons of Z3 boats on my lake with crap waves, the Z3 throws an amazing wave when dialed in, because they don't put in the time to dial it in. I love spending the time dialing in waves and wakes, and have become pretty good at it. Each boat is different, even the same year and model. Nothing worth doing is easy, but you spend the time and you can get a surf wave with the lsv and SG people will talk about all the time. Seriously my tige friend is on the verge of switching.

[BlackBluMalibu]

I will post pictures and maybe a video of our 23LSV. This past weekend we had 7 people on board had all factory ballast full, 750 extra in port locker, 400 in starboard locker and 520 extra bow ballast. Wedge was at 80% speed at 10 to 10.4 depending on the prson surfing speed request. Wave was over waist high on guys that are 6'4" and 6'6" with stock monsoon 350 and a 2313 prop. IMO you can't beat SG when set up properly. I would bet the boat the OP was riding had stock engine with stock prop (537) which will not push the surf gate with full stock ballast and max wedge and more than 4 adults. I still have my stock prop but have tried 4 different props and they make a world of difference, even with stock ballast. FWIW you need to re-try the SG with someone that has it dialed in. I bought and took delivery of our boat January 31 this year and we have 187 hours on it and we have tried just about every set up there is and we now have it dialed in.

Edited July 17, 2013 by BlackBluMalibu