Saving an Square Windshield 'BU

[WakeGirl]

Sportster would probably work because the windshield bottom is flat all the way back. On the Response and Echelon the rear corners have a reverse angle where the windshield and top hull cap meet. Would be tough to make look good.

Echelon and Response:

echelon after front.jpg

Sportster:

sportster side.jpg

Would be closer to fitting width-wise than the newer windshield that Mechmaster used (little or no cutting the center section down), but his sure does look nice!

I think the newer Responses just have a flat deck (sans notch) don't they?

EDIT: Yup, I was right. From our Malibu photo gallery, this one is an '07. Also, I just looked at some personal photos & baumer's '03 RLX doesn't have the notch either. I want to think that the change to the deck was made around '01, BICBW on that.

[jk13]

Ah yes. I should have gone and looked at footndale's new boat and done some more research....

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?/topic/42660-2013-response-lx/?hl=footndale

First pic says it all.

Edit: just went to resources and looked at the brochures. 1999 was the new all flat bottom windshield.

Edited June 7, 2013 by jk13

[WakeGirl]

The nice thing about that is that it's a pretty generic windshield. Heck, just about any 20' ski boat windshield may work as long as it's made for a flat deck, most of them are made by the same company anyway.

[2014Skier]

Thanks for the suggestions, it gives me something to start looking at. I'm not totally sold on the curved windshield. I'm definitely not doing a stock rebuild, more like a resto-mod, but I am partial to the square windshield.

[Levi900RR]

Man I'm a huge square windshield fan but I love mech masters Skier!!!

[Mechmaster]

I wish I could take the credit for that Skier with the new windshield, but that was another crew member's boat.

Something like this might work, its cheap, and its local: http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/rds/boa/3826311837.html

Edited June 10, 2013 by Mechmaster

[ampacdan]

You could try Walsh Plastics - they could bend you up a custom plexiglass windshield. 604-430-2371. http://www.walsh-plastics.com/plastic-windshield-replacement.html

[2014Skier]

Hey Mech master, i emailed about that windshield, it would be great if it had the side plates too.

ampacdan, thanks for the link to the plastic windshield place too, I'll look into that.

[2014Skier]

I'm not totally sure but I think the old 'Bu has a bit of a rot problem.... ha ha. The one good thing about the floors being so rotten is that they were really easy to rip up. I got the floors ripped up, and 90% of the water soaked foam up over the past few days. The floors were easy, the foam came up half decent for the most part, I used a trenching shovel to rip it up, it sort of came up in chunks, so wasn't too bad.

I used an oscillating tool to cut the gunnel storage frames off of the hull, the flush cut blade allowed me to cut right against the hull so I should be able to use the contour of that as a template to get the curve of the hull transferred to the new pieces once I get to that stage.

After looking at the front of the boat, in the storage area under the bow, I figure there is no way I'm getting in there without totally messing up my back so I'm gonna split the hull halves, should make it way easier to work on both the stringers and redesign the front storage area. I want to reconfigure that to make it better for two batteries, plus some storage and hopefully some ballast.

Has anybody here split a hull before? I figure it cant be that hard, just cut the top off, my only concern is supporting the soon to be empty hull correctly whilst I replace the stringers etc etc so that it holds the correct shape. In my mind I should be supporting it from the outside of the hull, I was thinking I would make some rails out of 2x6's and support the outer edges from front to back as much contact area as possible. Any suggestions? the trailer the boat is half sitting on now is not meant for it, so I cant rely on that to hold it correctly.

[rugger]

I can't imagine it being too hard, but I'd be aweful careful if you're going to split the hull. Sure you can't leave it intact? Sounds like you're already aware, but you really need to be careful when you start moving unsupported gel coat / glass around. I rebuilt an 87 Sunsetter (open bow, not the same challenges you're talking about), but had to create supports for the dash, etc., to hang on when cutting out the floors and stringers. I'd hate to see you cause more work moving stuff around. Sounds like your idea for 2 x 6's would work well if the trailer won't for the bottom half -- but I would make sure you set it up before removing the stringers so the hull stays put.

Also, I don't know if you've already figured out the new floors -- but I'd put it a vote for composite flooring vs. glassed wood. It seems more affordable than it used to be. I was lucky to live a few hours from Malibu, and one of Chee's friends hooked me up with the floors for a great price for the sunsetter. You can also build your stringers out of it, just as easily as wood. I chose for old school wood stringers that were glassed properly, but mostly because I didn't understand the composite material as well at the time. PM me if you want more info on the stuff we used.

Awesome that you are restoring that boat!! Sounds like you are ahead of the game and I'm sure it's gonna turn out great! Please keep posting pics and sharing knowledge.

[Mechmaster]

Have a look here: http://www.correctcraftfan.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22648&title=stringer-replacement-section There is a huge amount of information about materials, techniques, and design.

Many of the members there have done a stringer-job on old CC boats which were built using essentially the same as your Malibu. There are all-composite builds as well as conventional builds. Most guys rebuilding a CC 2001 don't split the deck and hull.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Mechmaster

[2014Skier]

So I managed to get the boat almost stripped out completely the other day. All that is left is the floor in the front storage area and the foam that is in the bow. I'm still debating whether or not to split the hull, I've to see how hard its going to be for me to get into that area at the front, I only need to get in there with the raised floor once, to cut it out, when I put it back together it will be configured differently.

I've been working on putting an under floor ballast system in, using PVC pipes, there is less space under there than I had hoped there would be. I set up some 4" and 3" pipe which can run approximately 10' under the floors from front to back. Without raising the floor at all I can fit 150 lbs of water under each side, one 4" pipe, three 3" and one 2". If I raise the floor up slightly to allow another run or two of 4" pipe I would be able to get another 40 lbs or so, making it close to 200 lbs per side.

This is just for under the floors, I was planning to add either a ballast bag or more pipe under the floor in front of the pole mount, there seems to be allot of wasted space in the bilge there, and then make a compartment for a bag up front in the bow. I've read a fair bit on ballast and found some stuff on Skiers and Sunsetters, How much weight seems about right for up front, being in front of the motor and in the bow area. I know lots of guys are running a few sacks on either side of the dog house.

The first pic is just showing how much space is under the floor, far less than I thought, the stringers area way taller on the bilge side.

The second pic is the trim line where i cut off the fiberglass where it meets the hull from the floors using an oscillating tool, I'm gonna trim it down as much as I can with this tool, as it kicks up virtually no dust, the sand it flat.

Thanks for the info and links.

[2014Skier]

I got the floor and foam out of the bow, as well as continued stripping the hull down. All that is left are the tracking fins, prop shaft support and what is left of the windshield. It really sucked getting into the bow area to cut that floor out, lucky for me she co-operated and the foam came out in two large chunks. I was thinking of splitting the hulls to make it easier to get the foam out from under there, but now I don't have to worry bout it.

Next thing I have to do is support the hull better and start on the stringers. I'm going to use 2 2x6's along the outer edges of the hull supported by jack stands and connected under the hull with nylon webbing (to prevent the 2x6's from sliding apart). This should allow the hull to "hang" freely and in its natural shape whilst I remove and replace the stringers one at a time. I'm going to start with the secondary stringers, just to get a feel for it before I do the main ones.

[JohnnyDefacto]

This is awesome. Keep the pictures coming.

Question on your ballast. Is it possible to find a fat sack that is right length for that area, and then put it in there and fill till it vents. It will hold a lot more water that way than your pvc pipes will. It may put a little pressure on your floor as the bag fills, but vented properly, will big fittings and hoses (1" + ) you shouldnt have any problem.

Im guessing that area for your ballast is 6-7 feet long?

[JohnnyDefacto]

http://www.wakemakers.com/wakeboard-ballast-bags?p=1

Wakemakers has a few different sacks that are over 5 feet long and look to be a good width, then there is one that is 88" long, a good width, but definately too tall, but it would work well I bet.

[Levi900RR]

If you put an under floor ballast system in a Skier you'll be my hero!

[2014Skier]

Thanks for the input and the link to Wakemakers Johhny. I was initially drawn to the PVC pipe because it would still allow me to fill part of the cavity with foam, which I think adds to the structure of the hull, plus if anything really bad should happen to the hull it would provide some buoyancy. I had mulled over the idea of something like a fat sac under the floor but didn't realize that they made them in long narrow shapes like some of the options on Wakemakers. Not having to you pipe would be great as it does waste allot of space from a pure capacity standpoint. What I'm leaning towards now is one long sac on each side, centered on the dog house. The sack would sit in a compartment that would be sealed from the rest of the hull with an access hatch in the floor should I need to get in there for any reason, then I can still fill the rest of the hull with foam, which I think is important. I could run the fill, drain and vent lines through some form of conduit, perhaps the abs electrical stuff, this would allow the compartment to be sealed, yet still give me the ability to get in there and make repairs as needed. I'll have to make up some models and see which ones would fit best, I'm leaning towards the cylindrical ones Big Bags I think they are called,

The other thing I was thinking of was moving the rear bench seat slightly forward, maybe 6" or less and making a compartment behind it for a rear sack, one of the ones designed to go under the seat of the bigger boats might fit back there. There are quite a few options, I just want to make sure I figure it all out before I start on the floor and stringer structure.

[rugger]

Nice progress!

Foam/ballast: For what's its worth, I mulled over the idea of under floor ballast when we redid the sunsetter -- and while I'm wrong more than I am right -- I'd personally skip the ballast and fill it back up with foam. You won't get too much ballast in there anyway, and the foam is supposed to be there. In addition to the safety of foam it seemed to dampen noise and rebalance the boat for skiing. (we found large voids under our setter's floor that were basically filled with water).

There are plenty of great wakes out of the old skiers and sunsetters thanks to all the ballast options now. Lots of good examples on this site. To get good weight, you'd need above floor ballast bags anyway I think.

Rear Seat: Look up OldSkool (?)'s old pictures. He's got a newer VTX now, but had a sweet custom 89 Sunsetter before that. Check out the rear seat ballast setup. Basically reconstructed a shorter seat and had probably 500-600 lbs under it that was hidden. I was inspired by what his boat could do when we redid ours. Ours worked great for skiing and boarding, and now MA took it to another level with his teak gate and surfing set up. These boats don't need a lot of weight to make a big difference.

[2014Skier]

So after much contemplation, figuring and calculating I've decided to go with an integrated underfloor ballast system, whilst still keeping maintaining a fair bit of foam under the floors for structural / buoyancy reasons.

The jist of it will be two Straight Line Big Bag 375's under the floor on either side of the engine 65" long 14" diameter, they wont be totally full but should be around 300 lbs per side. I will reinforce the floors around these bags, they will be fitted into sealed compartments and kept separate from the rest of the under floor area which will still be filled with foam. Fill/drain lines will run from the rear and vent lines will leave out towards the bow. I'll make small access hatches in the floor so I'll be able to get into the compartments for service reasons.

The ballast system will also have a quick connect fill/drain aux line that will be tied into the rear bag pump and main drain pump which I'll be able to use to fill and drain any other bags which I end up using.

Then behind the rear seat in a slim (approx 6"-8") compartment will be a Straight Line Big Bag 540 50" long 20" diameter, the bag wont be totally full and the total volume of water will depend on how far forward I decide to move the seat forward. I thought of trying to put something under the seat but the space under the seat is quite limited, in the Skier it sits almost on the floor, moving it up would really impact the comfort of the passengers back there as the back rest might get too short, I think anyways, I never got to sit in the rear seat of mine cause it was totally rotted out, so I'm kinda just guessing

Thanks for all the input, I appreciate the help.

The one pic is a diagram of my ballast system, the other is the boat being taken off the trailer and getting put on 2x6's and jack stands, the boat was totally empty when I was lifting it like that, it didn't weigh much at all.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Steve521

[FastFreddy]

What about this for a windshield?

http://edmonton.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicles-boats-watercraft-parts-trailers-accessories-Boat-windshield-W0QQAdIdZ498134856

[Roster man]

Running 3 pumps off a 1" through hull will be a problem. Are you planning on using reversible or areator style pumps? If areator they need to be below waterline to prime and vent loops above the waterline ( still requires bigger inlet piping).

If using reversible pumps you could simplify this some by using one of wakemakers schematics and a few extra checks.

[2014Skier]

Not a bad price on the windshield, but I'm trying to keep it four piece, unless I go curved, then a five piece might be okay.

As far as the 1" through hull, I'm using three of the 800 gph aerator pumps, the reversable ones are out of my budget. I know the 1" is slightly below capacity however I'm not super concerned with maximum fill speed, the bags are relatively small, so it still shouldn't take much time, I'll most likely only run two pumps at a time. I know the pumps need to be below the water line for priming purposes, they should be, I plan on mounting them in the bilge. I've never had any experience with ballast, my design was just what seemed like it should work in my head, given the bit of physics that I know. When you say I need vent loops above the water line what will that aid in, or create, from my understanding that will allow an air gap in the line, which would ensure that he water will stay in the bags and not siphon out. That's why I put the check valves in the lines after the pumps and the ball valves on the drain portion on the lines. If this wont work please correct me, like I say, I have no experience with ballast systems.

As far as progress goes I got the two secondary stringers cut out, I used an oscillating multi-tool again, just ran it along both edges of the stringers and then used a prybar to gentley coax the stringers out, they were bonded in pretty good but eventually popped out. I then measured them up, the tallest part was approx 4.25", they are 1.5" wide and almost exactly 9' long. They were definitely wet and starting to rot but not is too bad a shape, when I clamped them against the new fir though there was water beading out of the area around the pad on the clamp.

I then stripped the fiberglass off of both the stingers so that I could get a more precise template to work with, the fiberglass on the top of the stringer doesn't add much height but I just figured I'd get better results this was and it wasn't over difficult. I then clamped them to my new stringer stock which was 11/16" x 5" Douglas Fir, traced out the contour and cut it out with a jigsaw. I then clamped the two pieces of stock for each side together and sanded them to get as uniform a contour as I could.

The next step will be to coat all four pieces with thinned resin a few times, I then plan on sandwiching a layer of Biax and chopped strand mat (CSM) in between the two halves which should make them good and strong them covering the whole piece in CSM before installing them back into the boat.

In my mind using the two thinner pieces, soaked in resin then laminated together with the CMS and Biax then wrapping the whole thing in CSM will make for one very strong and long lasting stringer.

Just some pics of the stringers being cut out and, the new stringer stock and tracing the pattern onto the new stringers. If everything goes well I'll get the stringers coated in resin tomorrow. The two stringers clamped together are bent slightly, I'll be clamping them to some straight stock when In laminate them to make sure they are good and straight.

[2014Skier]

I'm now ready to put the secondary stringers in. It took a bit of work to get them prepped up, but they turned out great. I clamped the two halves together and used a router to round off the outside edges so that when I wrap them the glass will form around the edges better (fiberglass doesn't like to go around sharp bends). I coated all four pieces with two coats of resin thinned with about 8% styrene to help it soak in. I then cut a strip of biax cloth to match the profile of the stringers, loaded it up with resin and sandwiched it in between the two halves and clamped it in place. I used 2x4's to make sure the stringers ended up nice and straight. On the side of the 2x4 that was against the stringers I covered them in a strip of masking tape and then covered the masking tape in two coats of PVA so that they wouldn't end up sticking to the stringers with all the resin seeping out. Once that was all done I wrapped the stringers bottom half with a strip of CSM to add more water protection and make for a nice bedding surface against the hull.

I then started on prepping the hull, using a grinding disk on an angle grinder and an orbital sander I prepped the hull surface where the stingers will bed into and approx 4" on either side. Hopefully I'll get the stringers mounted in the next couple of days.

Pics to follow

[2014Skier]

First pic is the raw stringers after routing the edges.

Second is the stringers layed out between two saw horses being coated in thinned resin.

Third is a pic of the two halves being laminated together with biax cloth in between.

[John I.]

Here's a free windshield (and hull). http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?/topic/44868-a-free-bu/