Erosion Concerns

[CliffB]

So they are going to make more laws that they won't enforce? Your argument makes no sense.

I'm not making an argument. I'm just stating a fact, or more precisely, a state of condition.

You're absolutely right, more laws without enforcement makes no sense. But just because it makes no sense doesn't mean local authorities don't pass more laws - they do. They do that because that's easier and doesn't cost a whole lot. Enforcement is tough, and expensive.

[DWhynot]

"I would like to start an argument", "No you Don't". , "Yes I do". ~ Monty Python

Regarding the original topic; It all comes down to common courtesy, being mindful of your impact and taking responsibility.

If I'm about to use MY slalom course (on a public waterway), and fisherman or kayakers are sitting in the course, I'll just come back some other time. If they're sitting near the course, I'll (politely) ask them if it's ok if I take a few passes through it, and I'll be gone in about 10 or 15 minutes. I've had wakeboarders apologize to me for their wakes as I was sitting on the end of my dock; I say "No problem" as I know how to tie up my boat, and I'm on my dock watching them enjoy themselves ripping it up. Surfers, no problem, just maintain the legal distance from shore, and other boats. It's the people that don't know how to navigate over and through large wakes, or are ignorant of what's going on around them who are usually the complainers.

Regarding erosion, I take responsibility for maintaining and preserving my shore front. The complainers don't.

[itsonlywater]

I attended the public hearing regarding Lake Austin as well. As mentioned, most of the discussion was rightfully aimed at the hydrilla issue and safety concerns. A couple of "senior" gentlemen brought up banning large wakes but were in the minority. Most speaking attendees were against any (additional) regulation on lake use.

Other discussion points I can remember from the hearing:

-Erosion

-Increased traffic on the water

-Enforcement of the noise ordinance

-Dock damage from large wakes and boats driving too close

-Retaining walls/bulkheads

-Increased commercial use; ie party barges

I won't get into the discussion points, but it's safe to say most of the points discussed in this thread were discussed at the hearing. Overall, I felt the recreational users of the lake were well represented and unified in finiding a solution for the hydrilla, increasing safety, and minimizing additional regulation.

[jkendallmsce]

I know this is rather verbose, but there is a lot on my mind:

One thing I have observed, is the folks who do own lake front property vs those who don’t it is very clear cut. Those who don’t, have never had to deal with someone 50 feet off you dock with their speakers cranked to 500+ at 3 am, or someone surfing literally next to your concrete dock with your Bayliner resting on the lift being thrashed around, having the tell the kids go inside so they are not exposed to the noise/crap some folks call music or not being able to BBQ and enjoy dinner out on my own deck cause some ahole doesn’t know they is anything but full blast on his stereo. Lets see how your opinion(s) changes should you be lucky enough to have a lake front house someday. Cause I am betting they’ll be quite different than they are now.

And it has nothing to do with rich vs not rich, as many have suggested, it has to do with protecting the assets you have worked hard for. Cause most of you have no idea what it costs to put in a concrete retaining wall or install a concrete dock with boat lift, maintain it, Pay taxes to live on the water, but I and my fellow homeowners do. Although the current direction/theme is not of those aspiring to own property on the lake and to emulate those who are successful, but more of why are THEY allowed to (whatever) and not me and that life aint fair!! That is exactly what IXFE and BS are saying in several of their posts. Which is fine if you want to go thru life with that life aint fair/I am always the victim mindset. There would be no or far fewer problems if: 1) law enforcement actually enforced the laws, 2) if folks actually obeyed the laws, 3) if folks were a tad bit more (ok A FRCKIN LOT MORE) courteous and thoughtful towards their fellow man or woman. But since the third has been completely thrown out the window and replaced with f** everyone else, I want to show the entire lake how loud MY stereo is, and that 200 feet no wake zone is for sissies and what do you mean I can’t ski off your nice concrete DOCK, it’s on public water isn’t it, I could go on. And on and on…Maybe those boater blasting by the someone’s dock would reconsider if they knew how big a hole one of those flare guns would make or that sledgehammer??

And someone pointed out that you are responsible for your wake!! I have yet to see anyone step up and say oh my bad on that one..it’s is always f** you, its public water, what do you expect, you built your (whatever) on public water, blah, blah…. I am not for more regs in any way (we have way too many now) , but it amazes me how any paste eating mouth breathing moron, can buy a boat, and not know and more importantly not care the first thing about how to safely and legally operate that boat on the public water ways, let alone in his driveway on the trailer... I could care less if they crash into each other, but most are idiots to begin with, give em a few beers and you have Darwin waiting for new arrivals. We don’t even go out mid day, cause it is a scene from Mad Max crossed with Waterworld.

And since you are responsible for your wake, if I am out on the water amoungst all these surfer, wakeboarders and tubers, and I take water over the bow of my boat and get say 20-50 gallons of water in my boat…just who is responsible?? I did not make the huge 3-4 foot wakes, and you know how open bow ski boat like my LXI is…just who is responsible?? Cause if I was just chillin with the engine off, and nyryan2001 swamps my boat, according to the regs, HE is responsible for his wake?? Is he not? So is it soley Nyryan2001s problem, all the wakeboard boats out on the water, some, or none?? I mean, what did I do wrong to get a bunch of lake water in my nice clean boat??? Nothing…so why am I the one cleaning out my boat so it don’t smell like a dead fish?? And why do I have to take precautions to keep my boat from being swamped, when nyryan2001 took NO precautions….Should I not be able to chill on my boat w/o fear of it sinking?? Just askin a question!

If each boater is responsible for their own wake, why should Ruffdog and myself have to take extreme measures, like keeping my Bayliner on the lift all the time? Cause FOLKS ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE AND DON’T ACT IN A RESPONSIBLE MANNER!!! And ya can’t fix stupid!! Can’t be more simple and plain than that….shakin my head side to side with clenched teeth!!

And BS and ruffdog says ticket them...is simply naïve (trying to be PC here) …or even video them…I guess the cops in your state are different that the multiple states I have boated in. Cops are on the water to see that folks play nice, and as long as you are not a danger to yourself or others, they do NOTHING!! Period I know the sheriffs on my lake by name, nice guys, but not the most proactive bunch…Good luck on that video thing, cause SOL is about the outcome you going to get. Heck most sheriffs don’t even know what the current boats laws are!! Most are simply out on that boat, cause they get more OT that way and there aren’t too many folks shooting at them. Just ask them about using your tower lights at night!! They’ll tell you you can’t, cause they BLIND oncoming boats but some yahoo(s) on this site here think it is a grey area!! Just wait til THEY get a ticket for having multiple light combinations at night!! I actually blew snot out my nose when I read that one!!

First, someone made the comment about PUBLIC water…Do you know your public water sits atop my private property?? My private property runs to the middle of the channel…SO when you are idling or cruising by my dock, you are in fact ON MY PROPERTY. And this is rhetorical, but which was there first, the land or the water??? The land by a few thousand maybe even million years in most cases, cause our lake is a reservoir. Property that I pay taxes on…and actually my concrete dock is anchored to my property by 2 steel casings driven into my property that is below the public water.

Although I found the study interesting, they left out, IMO, the most important bit of information/ calculation. You see when measuring the size of a wave, along with its velocity, you can measure and or calculate that wave’s kinetic energy. And when doing so, it is the similar to calculating the flow thru a pipe..when you double the diameter of a pipe ( 1 inch to 2 inch or 6 inch to 12 inch), you get 4 times more flow thru that pipe. Because PI isn’t round, it’s square!! Ha ha Same with calculating stereo, to be twice as loud, you need 4 times more power..hence RMS (root mean squared).

And IXFE and Night Rider, there is a huge difference in velocities, when comparing your river at stage 84 vs a wakeboard’s wake ( not only velocity but whether flows are parallel or perpendicular to the channel flow..…after a few years of graduate engineering classes in fluid dynamics and open channel flow you’d know there is a significant difference and you’d even be able to quantify it!! Same as some other member saying gravity was a theory…I guess ignorance is bliss!!. Trust me there is as I have taken those and more water related classes plus a decade or 3 of experience. Even at stage 84, what do you think the downstream velocity is?? If you knew what laminar flow is, it would be a start!! Go ahead and take a stab at it. This again compared to say velocities generated by wakeboarding. Because when you calculate moving masses, you square the velocity. So an object at 10mph you’d use 100 in said equation, 20 mph you’d use 400 (so 4x the kinetic energy) and 30 mph, you’d used 900 (so 9X the kinetic energy) (with all other factors/components in the algerithum being the same) so you can see how the velocity makes an ENORMOUS difference. I am hoping you see that, and save yourself from having to endure all those graduate level engineering classes, cause they were hard as heck!! Example: say a car crash at 30 mph you may walk away with a limp, while the same crash at 60 mph, well you don’t walk away. Again that kinetic energy is not a linear function, but is an exponential function, or in this example 4X more kinetic energy at 60 mph to dissipate at point of impact. Same principle as the difference of my LXIs wake at 34 mph vs a 3-4 ft wave behind a wakesetter. I challenge even the great Bob Lapoint to try to make it thru the course behind that 2010 Tige RZ2 shown in the video…that would be a site to see I’d even pay money to see that…cause I would never happen…even with Bob behind the boat in his prime!! To say even a ski boat causes erosions compared the erosion caused by a 3-4 wake, is akin to comparing a Ford Pinto to any Ferrari!! Not even on the same continent, let alone zip code.

And another huge component of river management is to minimize the impact(s)…Not much you can do about mother nature, there is however a lot you can do about boats, boat traffic, etc. And have you ever talked to any COE folks after say stage 84 event and the estimated damages/cost.? COE will almost always conduct damage assessment(s). Specially if there is a lot of commercial traffic on that portion of the river. Not familiar with all your river issues, but some parallel the issues we are experiencing at our lake.

SO when a wave say 6 inches high is compared to a wave 12 inches high, that 12 inch wave has 4 times the kinetic energy than the 6 inch wave…You can see how when you’re looking at 3-4 foot waves, the kinetic energy is exponentially greater than the smaller waves. Again it is not a linear function (straight line) but an exponential function (parabolic curve). Same principle at the beach, a 1 foot wave is nothing, but a 3-4 wave will knock you on you azz!! Exponential, not linear.

That is why, as in my earlier comment, there are a few ways to dissipate all that kinetic energy….one is distance, various vegetations, and a myriad of manmade structures including rip rap, walls, berms, etc. But as one of my professors told me, once something is built, it has to be maintained. So who pays for that?

So the member who has the dock made out of kryptonite, well his dock may simply be further away from the energy source, or there may be structures in the way that dissipate or redirect the wave’s energy, or it could simply be better built…don’t know the answer.

And as far as the loud stereos go, I have NEVER seen nor heard a bass boat with a boomin azz loud stereo, tower with lights and speakers, etc...not saying they aren’t out there, I just have yet to see one… if you see one, send me a pic, please. Cause that would be a hoot.

And I have no problem with chuckleheads ruining their ears and minds with the crap they call music..I have told them that they can play their music as loud as they want to, as long as I don’t have to hear it. SO see I am open minded, I would never deny someone their RIGHTS, but I have rights too. And I have an equal right l to NOT have to listen to that sh**t. What could be more fair than that!! And we all want life to be fair…right!! See what sixball says about the noise ordinace....

I know on our lake, (and although someone was right in that it is the public’s water, although I have never seen any of the boarders at any of the annual meeting to discuss launch fees, noxious weeds, lake management, etc.) which is managed by a small local water agency, but ultimately reports to and is directed by the COE., that there is talk of how to limit the increasing erosion problems ….and for some unknown reason, I guess we are just a bunch of rascist, fear mongering homophobes, the wakeboard and surf bunch end up being who everyone is complaining about…not the bass holes, not the skiers, not the kayakers…it is always the wakeboard boats with those speakers on their towers.. cause, if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it must be a duck!! No offence Oregon ! And there was a course out on the lake for 30+ years…I don’t recall too many folks getting all wee weed up over the ski course like they are about the current problem(s). Maybe the homeowners are looking at a 2 for 1 deal….get rid of the boats causing the erosion and we’ll get rid of the crappy music too!! And won’t be woke up at 2-3 am!!

SO ya, the boating industry and associated groups need to fix/police an increasingly HUGE problem themselves, or someone will fix it for them. Have a talk to the chuckleheads who don’t know they’re responsible for their wake, or exactly what a noise ordinance means, or that there are actually other people/boaters on the lake, etc. Cause the homeowners, at least on our lake, are fed up with the BS (not you, I think??)!! All the homeowner I know around the lake have tried to be nice, tried to cooperate….cause you know we all want to enjoy living on the water and don’t mind sharing, but when a few inconsiderate and an increasing segment of the boating world refuses to play nice in the sandbox, well the sandbox rules are gonna change. And the boarders and surfers are probably not going to like the new rules. Cause life aint always fair. And I am certain the boarders will blame the homeowners, but those sandbox rules would NEVER have been changed, IF they had listened to the growing number of complaints and tried to play nice in the sandbox!!

The above novel is why I joined a private ski lake years ago…so I did and do not have to deal with chuckleheads, weekend warriors, imbeciles who are a danger to themselves and others, drunken buffoons, and end up choking one or several of my fellow boaters on public water.

Edited October 26, 2012 by jkendallmsce

[Asmodeus2112]

Back to the question in the first post about Lake Austin.

We, along with many reps from other dealerships, wakeboard and surf enthusiasts, clubs and schools attended the meeting. It was standing room-only with the vast majority supprting all types of water sports.

The major problem we have on Lake Austin now is hyrilla weed. All the other concerns are pretty secondary until this problem is solved. Lake Austin has had this Hydrilla weed over the years and it is drained periodically in January to kill it in freezing temps. This weed has exploded over the last 2 yrs due partially to low levels on Lake Travis, right above Lake Austin. The water temp used to be pretty cold due to the water coming from the bottom of Travis. Now that Travis is so low, the water coming in to Austin is much warmer and the weed has just exploded. There are many areas where people cant get their boats out of their docks and boaters have to swerve to miss the giant floating mounds of weeds in the middle of the lake. If you hit a patch of it, you have to stop the boat and hammer it in reverse to get it off. It feels like you just drove your car off the pavement into a mudhole.

They will not drain Austin this year for fears there may not be sufficent water to refill it. Carp that eat this weed have been added to the lake, but they have not made a dent in the problem.

Chemicals are pretty much off the table because this is, well, Austin after all. Further, it is used as drinking supply for cities from Austin to the Gulf of Mexico.

I forsee that this problem will be addressed before all the wakesurf/erosion stuff gets serious consideration.

Rob

Central Texas Water Sports

Rob,

Big thanks to you for attending and letting us know how it went.

[Steve B.]

Good read jkendall. It makes me hope my impact on the lake and the surrounding neighbors is minimal.

Through all these posts, I will try to be a better custodian my overall lake effect.

Steve B.

[jkendallmsce]

Who, exactly, do you think you are AND who, exactly, do you think I am? You're telling me I should aspire to live lakeside and "emulate those more successful"?? Wow.....just wow. I can't even comprehend how out of touch you must be to say something like that.

I am simply reading what you wrote...maybe you need to reread what you wrote.

Your quote: it had nothing to do with erosion and everything to do with rich people not liking the 'type of people' that had begun using their river, aka wakeboarders (this was before surfing was common....

and another quote: As it stands now, the law is an obvious example of rich people using their money to take over a piece of PUBLIC water. It's sickening and sad this can actually happen

and again: These are public resources and owning land near them does not give you the moral high-ground to legislate against others. Plus, keep in mind, there is always someone with a bigger wake and a smaller wake than yours. Be careful who you choose to fight to take the water from........ because there's someone right behind you that wants to do the same thing to you.

Appears you have "issues" with rich people or maybe some kinda class envy??

Edited October 26, 2012 by jkendallmsce

[Lance B. Johnson]

I know this is rather verbose, but there is a lot on my mind:

One thing I have observed, is the folks who do own lake front property vs those who don’t it is very clear cut. Those who don’t, have never had to deal with someone 50 feet off you dock with their speakers cranked to 500+ at 3 am, or someone surfing literally next to your concrete dock with your Bayliner resting on the lift being thrashed around, having the tell the kids go inside so they are not exposed to the noise/crap some folks call music or not being able to BBQ and enjoy dinner out on my own deck cause some ahole doesn’t know they is anything but full blast on his stereo. Lets see how your opinion(s) changes should you be lucky enough to have a lake front house someday. Cause I am betting they’ll be quite different than they are now.

And it has nothing to do with rich vs not rich, as many have suggested, it has to do with protecting the assets you have worked hard for. Cause most of you have no idea what it costs to put in a concrete retaining wall or install a concrete dock with boat lift, maintain it, Pay taxes to live on the water, but I and my fellow homeowners do. Although the current direction/theme is not of those aspiring to own property on the lake and to emulate those who are successful, but more of why are THEY allowed to (whatever) and not me and that life aint fair!! That is exactly what IXFE and BS are saying in several of their posts. Which is fine if you want to go thru life with that life aint fair/I am always the victim mindset. There would be no or far fewer problems if: 1) law enforcement actually enforced the laws, 2) if folks actually obeyed the laws, 3) if folks were a tad bit more (ok A FRCKIN LOT MORE) courteous and thoughtful towards their fellow man or woman. But since the third has been completely thrown out the window and replaced with f** everyone else, I want to show the entire lake how loud MY stereo is, and that 200 feet no wake zone is for sissies and what do you mean I can’t ski off your nice concrete DOCK, it’s on public water isn’t it, I could go on. And on and on…Maybe those boater blasting by the someone’s dock would reconsider if they knew how big a hole one of those flare guns would make or that sledgehammer??

And someone pointed out that you are responsible for your wake!! I have yet to see anyone step up and say oh my bad on that one..it’s is always f** you, its public water, what do you expect, you built your (whatever) on public water, blah, blah…. I am not for more regs in any way (we have way too many now) , but it amazes me how any paste eating mouth breathing moron, can buy a boat, and not know and more importantly not care the first thing about how to safely and legally operate that boat on the public water ways, let alone in his driveway on the trailer... I could care less if they crash into each other, but most are idiots to begin with, give em a few beers and you have Darwin waiting for new arrivals. We don’t even go out mid day, cause it is a scene from Mad Max crossed with Waterworld.

And since you are responsible for your wake, if I am out on the water amoungst all these surfer, wakeboarders and tubers, and I take water over the bow of my boat and get say 20-50 gallons of water in my boat…just who is responsible?? I did not make the huge 3-4 foot wakes, and you know how open bow ski boat like my LXI is…just who is responsible?? Cause if I was just chillin with the engine off, and nyryan2001 swamps my boat, according to the regs, HE is responsible for his wake?? Is he not? So is it soley Nyryan2001s problem, all the wakeboard boats out on the water, some, or none?? I mean, what did I do wrong to get a bunch of lake water in my nice clean boat??? Nothing…so why am I the one cleaning out my boat so it don’t smell like a dead fish?? And why do I have to take precautions to keep my boat from being swamped, when nyryan2001 took NO precautions….Should I not be able to chill on my boat w/o fear of it sinking?? Just askin a question!

If each boater is responsible for their own wake, why should Ruffdog and myself have to take extreme measures, like keeping my Bayliner on the lift all the time? Cause FOLKS ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE AND DON’T ACT IN A RESPONSIBLE MANNER!!! And ya can’t fix stupid!! Can’t be more simple and plain than that….shakin my head side to side with clenched teeth!!

And BS and ruffdog says ticket them...is simply naïve (trying to be PC here) …or even video them…I guess the cops in your state are different that the multiple states I have boated in. Cops are on the water to see that folks play nice, and as long as you are not a danger to yourself or others, they do NOTHING!! Period I know the sheriffs on my lake by name, nice guys, but not the most proactive bunch…Good luck on that video thing, cause SOL is about the outcome you going to get. Heck most sheriffs don’t even know what the current boats laws are!! Most are simply out on that boat, cause they get more OT that way and there aren’t too many folks shooting at them. Just ask them about using your tower lights at night!! They’ll tell you you can’t, cause they BLIND oncoming boats but some yahoo(s) on this site here think it is a grey area!! Just wait til THEY get a ticket for having multiple light combinations at night!! I actually blew snot out my nose when I read that one!!

First, someone made the comment about PUBLIC water…Do you know your public water sits atop my private property?? My private property runs to the middle of the channel…SO when you are idling or cruising by my dock, you are in fact ON MY PROPERTY. And this is rhetorical, but which was there first, the land or the water??? The land by a few thousand maybe even million years in most cases, cause our lake is a reservoir. Property that I pay taxes on…and actually my concrete dock is anchored to my property by 2 steel casings driven into my property that is below the public water.

Although I found the study interesting, they left out, IMO, the most important bit of information/ calculation. You see when measuring the size of a wave, along with its velocity, you can measure and or calculate that wave’s kinetic energy. And when doing so, it is the similar to calculating the flow thru a pipe..when you double the diameter of a pipe ( 1 inch to 2 inch or 6 inch to 12 inch), you get 4 times more flow thru that pipe. Because PI isn’t round, it’s square!! Ha ha Same with calculating stereo, to be twice as loud, you need 4 times more power..hence RMS (root mean squared).

And IXFE and Night Rider, there is a huge difference in velocities, when comparing your river at stage 84 vs a wakeboard’s wake ( not only velocity but whether flows are parallel or perpendicular to the channel flow..…after a few years of graduate engineering classes in fluid dynamics and open channel flow you’d know there is a significant difference and you’d even be able to quantify it!! Same as some other member saying gravity was a theory…I guess ignorance is bliss!!. Trust me there is as I have taken those and more water related classes plus a decade or 3 of experience. Even at stage 84, what do you think the downstream velocity is?? If you knew what laminar flow is, it would be a start!! Go ahead and take a stab at it. This again compared to say velocities generated by wakeboarding. Because when you calculate moving masses, you square the velocity. So an object at 10mph you’d use 100 in said equation, 20 mph you’d use 400 (so 4x the kinetic energy) and 30 mph, you’d used 900 (so 9X the kinetic energy) (with all other factors/components in the algerithum being the same) so you can see how the velocity makes an ENORMOUS difference. I am hoping you see that, and save yourself from having to endure all those graduate level engineering classes, cause they were hard as heck!! Example: say a car crash at 30 mph you may walk away with a limp, while the same crash at 60 mph, well you don’t walk away. Again that kinetic energy is not a linear function, but is an exponential function, or in this example 4X more kinetic energy at 60 mph to dissipate at point of impact. Same principle as the difference of my LXIs wake at 34 mph vs a 3-4 ft wave behind a wakesetter. I challenge even the great Bob Lapoint to try to make it thru the course behind that 2010 Tige RZ2 shown in the video…that would be a site to see I’d even pay money to see that…cause I would never happen…even with Bob behind the boat in his prime!! To say even a ski boat causes erosions compared the erosion caused by a 3-4 wake, is akin to comparing a Ford Pinto to any Ferrari!! Not even on the same continent, let alone zip code.

And another huge component of river management is to minimize the impact(s)…Not much you can do about mother nature, there is however a lot you can do about boats, boat traffic, etc. And have you ever talked to any COE folks after say stage 84 event and the estimated damages/cost.? COE will almost always conduct damage assessment(s). Specially if there is a lot of commercial traffic on that portion of the river. Not familiar with all your river issues, but some parallel the issues we are experiencing at our lake.

SO when a wave say 6 inches high is compared to a wave 12 inches high, that 12 inch wave has 4 times the kinetic energy than the 6 inch wave…You can see how when you’re looking at 3-4 foot waves, the kinetic energy is exponentially greater than the smaller waves. Again it is not a linear function (straight line) but an exponential function (parabolic curve). Same principle at the beach, a 1 foot wave is nothing, but a 3-4 wave will knock you on you azz!! Exponential, not linear.

That is why, as in my earlier comment, there are a few ways to dissipate all that kinetic energy….one is distance, various vegetations, and a myriad of manmade structures including rip rap, walls, berms, etc. But as one of my professors told me, once something is built, it has to be maintained. So who pays for that?

So the member who has the dock made out of kryptonite, well his dock may simply be further away from the energy source, or there may be structures in the way that dissipate or redirect the wave’s energy, or it could simply be better built…don’t know the answer.

And as far as the loud stereos go, I have NEVER seen nor heard a bass boat with a boomin azz loud stereo, tower with lights and speakers, etc...not saying they aren’t out there, I just have yet to see one… if you see one, send me a pic, please. Cause that would be a hoot.

And I have no problem with chuckleheads ruining their ears and minds with the crap they call music..I have told them that they can play their music as loud as they want to, as long as I don’t have to hear it. SO see I am open minded, I would never deny someone their RIGHTS, but I have rights too. And I have an equal right l to NOT have to listen to that sh**t. What could be more fair than that!! And we all want life to be fair…right!! See what sixball says about the noise ordinace....

I know on our lake, (and although someone was right in that it is the public’s water, although I have never seen any of the boarders at any of the annual meeting to discuss launch fees, noxious weeds, lake management, etc.) which is managed by a small local water agency, but ultimately reports to and is directed by the COE., that there is talk of how to limit the increasing erosion problems ….and for some unknown reason, I guess we are just a bunch of rascist, fear mongering homophobes, the wakeboard and surf bunch end up being who everyone is complaining about…not the bass holes, not the skiers, not the kayakers…it is always the wakeboard boats with those speakers on their towers.. cause, if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it must be a duck!! No offence Oregon ! And there was a course out on the lake for 30+ years…I don’t recall too many folks getting all wee weed up over the ski course like they are about the current problem(s). Maybe the homeowners are looking at a 2 for 1 deal….get rid of the boats causing the erosion and we’ll get rid of the crappy music too!! And won’t be woke up at 2-3 am!!

SO ya, the boating industry and associated groups need to fix/police an increasingly HUGE problem themselves, or someone will fix it for them. Have a talk to the chuckleheads who don’t know they’re responsible for their wake, or exactly what a noise ordinance means, or that there are actually other people/boaters on the lake, etc. Cause the homeowners, at least on our lake, are fed up with the BS (not you, I think??)!! All the homeowner I know around the lake have tried to be nice, tried to cooperate….cause you know we all want to enjoy living on the water and don’t mind sharing, but when a few inconsiderate and an increasing segment of the boating world refuses to play nice in the sandbox, well the sandbox rules are gonna change. And the boarders and surfers are probably not going to like the new rules. Cause life aint always fair. And I am certain the boarders will blame the homeowners, but those sandbox rules would NEVER have been changed, IF they had listened to the growing number of complaints and tried to play nice in the sandbox!!

The above novel is why I joined a private ski lake years ago…so I did and do not have to deal with chuckleheads, weekend warriors, imbeciles who are a danger to themselves and others, drunken buffoons, and end up choking one or several of my fellow boaters on public water.

This is one hellashiously long post. I'm not going to tear it up piece by piece cause ill leave BS to do that. What you and a everyone else with your opinion are failing to recognize is what I see as an offense about 6x per day. The big old cabin cruiser causing every bit the damage to docks and shorelines as a surf wake. Im not joking....12 mph 50 feet from my dock. You guys leave that out of your discussion every time! Why? I can only come to one conclusion. It's not REALLY about the wake now is it?

Enforce the stupid noise ordinance if noise is the problem. If people are to close to your dock, enforce it. I don't see why that's difficult to do. If current regs make it difficult to enforce noise ordinance, change the regs to make it easier. Anyone with half a brain can figure this out. As far as enforcement being expensive? That's a joke the Sheriff will make money enforcing it. They are on the water anyway, they should do their job. You know I can say that so easily and so can BS. Because we don't break the laws either with noise or proximity. So what's your problem with us? We don't do the crap you described in your post.

I still say, after all this discussion I haven't changed my opinion. Not one bit.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Ruffdog

[jkendallmsce]

This is one hellashiously long post. I'm not going to tear it up piece by piece cause ill leave BS to do that. What you and a everyone else with your opinion are failing to recognize is what I see as an offense about 6x per day. The big old cabin cruiser causing every bit the damage to docks and shorelines as a surf wake. Im not joking....12 mph 50 feet from my dock. You guys leave that out of your discussion every time! Why? I can only come to one conclusion. It's not REALLY about the wake now is it?

Enforce the stupid noise ordinance if noise is the problem. If people are to close to your dock, enforce it. I don't see why that's difficult to do. If current regs make it difficult to enforce noise ordinance, change the regs to make it easier. Anyone with half a brain can figure this out.

I still say, after all this discussion I haven't changed my opinion. Not one bit.

If I included cabin cruisers, it would be another 9 pages...ha ha...read the part about the wakes, size of wakes...makes no differernce who makes the wakes, my point is the larger wakes are exponentially more destructive..makes no diff if a wake board boats generates the wake or a cabin cruiser...erosion is erosion. I could edit and add cabin cruisers if you'd like...also these are my observations of our lake ( I know that bothers some) and what I have seen over the past few years.

I am simply responding to comments you have made. And enforcement is mucho harder than you might think...if the cruisers are 6x a day and that close, why don't you see how hard it is to enforce the regulations and see how far ya get.

Edited October 26, 2012 by jkendallmsce

[Lance B. Johnson]

I am simply reading what you wrote...maybe you need to reread what you wrote.

Your quote: it had nothing to do with erosion and everything to do with rich people not liking the 'type of people' that had begun using their river, aka wakeboarders (this was before surfing was common....

and another quote: As it stands now, the law is an obvious example of rich people using their money to take over a piece of PUBLIC water. It's sickening and sad this can actually happen

and again: These are public resources and owning land near them does not give you the moral high-ground to legislate against others. Plus, keep in mind, there is always someone with a bigger wake and a smaller wake than yours. Be careful who you choose to fight to take the water from........ because there's someone right behind you that wants to do the same thing to you.

Appears you have "issues" with rich people or maybe some kinda class envy??

Now that's a joke and a confirmation with how out of touch you are. Jk there's always someone wealthier than you.... What do you say when someone wealthier than you comes along and takes from you. Sounds like you say, " wow I wanna be like him"

I doubt you say that but if you do I feel sorry for ya bud cause that's f'd up.

[Lance B. Johnson]

I'm not disecting anything piece be piece. When a person makes a comment like "I should aspire to be like more successful people" ... I've heard all I need to hear and move on with my life.

Good deal. I should do the same. Actually I was just thinking I should aspire to be a rich lakefront property owner.

[Bradley Thornton]

Boy am I glad my name didn't get in the mix.

I don't know what is true You say one thing then another. First you say Those who don’t, have never had to deal with someone 50 feet off you dock with their speakers cranked to 500+ at 3 am, or someone surfing literally next to your concrete dock with your Bayliner resting on the lift being thrashed around, having the tell the kids go inside so they are not exposed to the noise/crap some folks call music or not being able to BBQ and enjoy dinner out on my own deck cause some ahole doesn’t know they is anything but full blast on his stereo. (Then you say) I joined a private ski lake years ago…so I did and do not have to deal with chuckleheads, weekend warriors, imbeciles who are a danger to themselves and others, You may know all the calculations in the world but that doesn't change the fact it is a public lake if people don't like it move to a private lake then you can play as a communist all you want. As has been said 10,000 time everyone on this site dislikes the people that abuse the system. But it is a FREE country and that is the way it is. Lets see how your opinion(s) changes should you be lucky enough to have a lake front house someday. Cause I am betting they’ll be quite different than they are now. And it has nothing to do with rich vs not rich, as many have suggested, it has to do with protecting the assets you have worked hard for. Cause most of you have no idea what it costs to put in a concrete retaining wall or install a concrete dock with boat lift, maintain it, Pay taxes to live on the water, but I and my fellow homeowners do. I think you must have missed what I wrote. If you decide to own lake front property be willing to deal with all that comes along with it. As you have said you bought private so you don't have to deal with it. I am sick of all the crying over that fact people bought land on the water and other people ride boats on that water really what did the realtor do run all the other boats off the lake before you looked at it. Grow up just because you have the $ to by the land doesn't make you any better than the other people on the lake. Yes, I do have money and when I decide to buy land on the water I'll be willing to deal with all that comes along with the package. I'm not pointing any one person out but if a person doesn't like the freedom given to us in this country and you would like to help take them away their are many other countries that would love to have your communist butt.

[jkendallmsce]

Boy am I glad my name didn't get in the mix.

I don't know what is true You say one thing then another. First you say Those who don’t, have never had to deal with someone 50 feet off you dock with their speakers cranked to 500+ at 3 am, or someone surfing literally next to your concrete dock with your Bayliner resting on the lift being thrashed around, having the tell the kids go inside so they are not exposed to the noise/crap some folks call music or not being able to BBQ and enjoy dinner out on my own deck cause some ahole doesn’t know they is anything but full blast on his stereo. (Then you say) I joined a private ski lake years ago…so I did and do not have to deal with chuckleheads, weekend warriors, imbeciles who are a danger to themselves and others, You may know all the calculations in the world but that doesn't change the fact it is a public lake if people don't like it move to a private lake then you can play as a communist all you want. As has been said 10,000 time everyone on this site dislikes the people that abuse the system. But it is a FREE country and that is the way it is. Lets see how your opinion(s) changes should you be lucky enough to have a lake front house someday. Cause I am betting they’ll be quite different than they are now. And it has nothing to do with rich vs not rich, as many have suggested, it has to do with protecting the assets you have worked hard for. Cause most of you have no idea what it costs to put in a concrete retaining wall or install a concrete dock with boat lift, maintain it, Pay taxes to live on the water, but I and my fellow homeowners do. I think you must have missed what I wrote. If you decide to own lake front property be willing to deal with all that comes along with it. As you have said you bought private so you don't have to deal with it. I am sick of all the crying over that fact people bought land on the water and other people ride boats on that water really what did the realtor do run all the other boats off the lake before you looked at it. Grow up just because you have the $ to by the land doesn't make you any better than the other people on the lake. Yes, I do have money and when I decide to buy land on the water I'll be willing to deal with all that comes along with the package. I'm not pointing any one person out but if a person doesn't like the freedom given to us in this country and you would like to help take them away their are many other countries that would love to have your communist butt.

Thats cause I ski on a private lake, man made soley to ski, jump and trick on. Although there are quite a few ski lakes around here that do have houses around their ski lake. I could see how that could someone could jump to that conclusion.. The lake house is actually on another lake, not private, rather public lake. Although the lake house is on a reservoir, so I technically it too is man made!!??

The grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side. Hopefully you get your lake house (no better country to do that in), let me know how you deal with that stereo blasting and wakin ya up at 2-3 am.... or folks blasting by your dock (you can get advice from BS on how to ticket them, good luck with that..ha ha)....like I said ya never know until you're in those shoes. I handle the contientious, courteous, law abiding folks on the lake quite well, it is the chuckleheads, pinheads, paste eating morons that I and the other homeowners have issues with.

And I suggest readin mine again, as I never said we wanted to run ANYONE off the lake. I surf, so that would impact me. Just tired of the cops NOT ENFORCING the boating laws and chuckleheads oblivious to the boating laws! I would love to see how BS would issue someone a tickets for blasting their loud stereos...Would love to see that episode in court, maybe Judge Judy??: Well officer just HOW loud was the stereo in question...well judge judy , it was HECKA LOUD, wouldn't you say that 2 Barney Fife, yep judge judy , it was HECKA LOUD...all righty then, $200 fine and 90 days...for playing your stereo hecka loud.... ha ha ha

And NOT a commie, more capiltalistic than you'll EVEr know or imagine.

Edited October 27, 2012 by jkendallmsce

[jkendallmsce]

Now that's a joke and a confirmation with how out of touch you are. Jk there's always someone wealthier than you.... What do you say when someone wealthier than you comes along and takes from you. Sounds like you say, " wow I wanna be like him"

I doubt you say that but if you do I feel sorry for ya bud cause that's f'd up.

YOu are exactly right: I understand what you're saying, in general, to be; that if everyone would be considerate boaters and respect lakeside residents we wouldn't be in this mess. I get that. I just don't think it's reasonable to assume we can legislate our way to 'more considerate boaters'.

And that is THE problem, You can't..never will legislate people's attitudes. Just look at cigarettes, you can tax them to $5/pack and people still smoke. Until there is a law against being stupid, you're not going to fix the problem... You can't fix stupid!! SO the only recourse is to make rules/legislate those offenders off your lake, river, whatever. ...EXACTLY what I said in my novel..If folks WON"T play nice in the sand box, then ya kick em outta the sand box.

And I have NEVER met and or talked to someone who aspires to be a bum living on the streets...think about it.

Denile is NOT a river in Egypt.... Trust me, That IS whats going to happen unless the boating industries addresses the problem.

And best of luck on those aspirations ruffdog...remember TRYING is a precursor to failure!!

Edited October 27, 2012 by jkendallmsce

[jkendallmsce]

Bradley- Don't waste your time. A comment to the effect if "you should aspire to be like lakeside owners who are more successful than you" should tell you all you need to know about a guy..... especially a guy that likes to paint himself as some sort of caretaker of American values. Haha. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Save your time and energy for our peasant-talk over in the CFB thread

BS, if you are going to quote me, please take the time and get it right...cause that IS NOT what I said, not even close...and you know it...well starting to think you don't....and I am an engineer, NOT a painter....

And THAT closed minded attitude of yours is what will get wakeboarders and the like retricted as to where they can and can not boat. And Like I said in my novel, you guys will be the first to be yelling and screaming WHY, WHY, WHY.... and it is cause of your attitude, being obtuse to the fact wakeboarders are a HUGE part of the problem and refusal to be considerate of others out on the water. I should have thrown in the novel, you can be part of the problem or part of the solution...looks like you've hitched your wagon to the problem side of the equation....and that side almost always ends up with the short end of the stick.

It has already happened on some lakes, expect more.... DOn't come crying when its too late and I TOLD YOU SO!!

It appears to me that we are not that different in opiniions on the subject, it looks like I stuck some kinda raw nerve about the rich part, which if you look back at your comments, I am simply repeating your comments....just sayin.

Edited October 27, 2012 by jkendallmsce

[jkendallmsce]

While I won't waste time responding to 7 page dissertation so poorly written its barely legible, I will take the time to revisit the comment directed at me so its understood by the rest of the peasants out there.

What you said, in essence, was that if I (and others) spent as much time 'emulating the more successful lakeside homeowners' as i/we do 'whining about how it's not fair' (aka standing up for my/our rights as an American): I/we wouldn't have anything to whine about.

Jkendall, If you're going to back-peddle, make sure you're on a fixed gear bike. It's the only time it's going to get you anywhere. The rest of us aren't as dumb as you take us for.

Legible enough to get your panties in a wad. And you need to recheck, as you have responded 5 times, 6 with this attempt!! And what are you talking about back peddling?? No need for me to back peddle, as I only speak the truth....you're just too obtuse to recognize. Thats ok, as your attitude, which I guess you read, but did not comprende to well, is the problem. SOmehow you think YOUR rights supercede all others out on the lake or river. And like I told you in my 7 page dissertation that you're not responding to, but actually are??? that your attitude is what is going to get wakeboarders banned from more lakes and rivers. But that is ok, since I'll be able to enjoy "our" lake after the chuckleheads have been banned from accessing our lake.....I'll be able to wave to you as we'll be out on the water enjoying ourselves with fellow homeowners. Knowing that IF THEY HAD ONLY TRIED TO PLAY NICE IN THE SANDBOX, they too could be out enjoying our lake.

And all because you THINK your rights superceded everyone else....let me know in a few years how that is working out for you, and just how many lakes and rivers you're banned from using. Because me and my fellow homeowers have rights too,..the only difference is, we are tired of our rights getting the short end of the stick. And I'll sleep like a baby, casue there won't be any one waking me at 3 am!!

You are right about one thing...you can't fix stupid...

Edited October 27, 2012 by jkendallmsce

[SurfgateBob]

I wish this thread could get back on track about the "Erosion Concerns" in Austin and off the personal attacks.

[CliffB]

Lake front home owners are just one group in the mix of people....wake boarders, skiers, anglers, paddle boarders......with rights no less or no more important than anyone else.

What typically sets them apart from the rest of these groups is that they usually have wealth and influence and, most importantly, organization. Why is this? Because a) lake front property is more expensive thus you have to be relatively well-to-do to buy it, and b) they typically live in a fairly tight communities so communication and common goals are more obvious, and c) they have something more than just recreational enjoyment to lose if things go wrong for them - property values. In other words, people get organized real fast when there's something out there that has the obvious potential of hitting them in the pocket book. They form a group and hire an attorney to be their (very effective) advocate at public meetings, and that attorney does the research and puts together a bunch of stats and data in support of their position. How is the casual wake-boarding guy supposed to compete with that? The end result will likely be (just my opinion....) that wake-sports (more precisely, the wake-enhancing equipment used...) will gradually get banned from many lakes across the US. That's not really fair, as that outcome is determined more by unequal levels of resources for advocacy than the underlying relative use rights.

If wake-sports folks don't want the above to happen then they should get organized real quick, and get some money and resources together to fight this fight on an equal footing.

Just my $.02.

[jkendallmsce]

Lake front home owners are just one group in the mix of people....wake boarders, skiers, anglers, paddle boarders......with rights no less or no more important than anyone else.

What typically sets them apart from the rest of these groups is that they usually have wealth and influence and, most importantly, organization. Why is this? Because a) lake front property is more expensive thus you have to be relatively well-to-do to buy it, and b) they typically live in a fairly tight communities so communication and common goals are more obvious, and c) they have something more than just recreational enjoyment to lose if things go wrong for them - property values. In other words, people get organized real fast when there's something out there that has the obvious potential of hitting them in the pocket book. They form a group and hire an attorney to be their (very effective) advocate at public meetings, and that attorney does the research and puts together a bunch of stats and data in support of their position. How is the casual wake-boarding guy supposed to compete with that? The end result will likely be (just my opinion....) that wake-sports (more precisely, the wake-enhancing equipment used...) will gradually get banned from many lakes across the US. That's not really fair, as that outcome is determined more by unequal levels of resources for advocacy than the underlying relative use rights.

If wake-sports folks don't want the above to happen then they should get organized real quick, and get some money and resources together to fight this fight on an equal footing.

Just my $.02.

Your .02 is spot on...and EXACTLY what I said...you just did it with a lot fewer words...ha ha. others don't want to hear it, but they are going to find themselves on the outside looking in. In fact it is already happening. Just some don't want to hear it.

And why I was trying to tell folks, they need to clean up their and others's acts...in other words police their clan.

[Bradley Thornton]

BS, I thought we talked about this we have better things to fight about!!!

[foiler1]

we have people that bark about our wake. My response is, look at the outboard pulling the tuber in circles. That roller isn't much smaller than ours.

[Bradley Thornton]

Bradley- Don't waste your time. A comment to the effect if "you should aspire to be like lakeside owners who are more successful than you" should tell you all you need to know about a guy..... especially a guy that likes to paint himself as some sort of caretaker of American values. Haha. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Save your time and energy for our peasant-talk over in the CFB thread

[jkendallmsce]

'Ooooooh, ooooh! Yeah, yeah, yeah........ that's EXACTLY what he was saying..........only with the exact opposite talking points, exact opposite point of view on whether it's right or wrong and totally different words....... Besides that it was identical.

Cliff~ I actually agree with all of this. I don't argue for one second that better organization in the wake community will help our cause. All I've ever argued is that it shouldn't be that way. I shouldn't have to form a Super PAC to protect my rights on the water. Especially given the fact that wakeboarders & surfers aren't the offenders......irresponsible boaters are. Seems a lot like outlawing rifles because of criminal behavior with guns.............then asking the NRA to police the criminals (aka "their clan") or else. ""Stupid""? Yeah I'd say so.

BS reminds me of a quote from the famous Stephen Colbert, although i have modified it to fit the tone:

"BS is a torch and weilding wakeboarder, empty of all thought, an injured and vengeful animal lashing out out blindly at shapes and colors!"

And just what RIGHTS of yours are being denied? ANd what about the rights of the homeowners and the damage done to their "stuff'?

ANd your gun analogy makes absolutley no sense...

You so full of yourself, you're not even coherent. Pavlov, we have another test subject....

Edited October 29, 2012 by jkendallmsce