Poorman's Gate

[Tao of Wake]

I think you got a little too aggressive with the mounting angle on the trim tab actuator. You should have mounted the actuator end a little closer to the center of the tab, and had the base of the actuator a little closer to the middle of the boat. The positioning that you have is not going to provide a whole lot of strength, and also will limit the angle at which you can deploy the tab.

I had to do that to get the max travel out of the actuator. If I mounted it closer to the center of the tab, it wouldn't push the gate out far enough. Believe me, I had to recall my geometry lessons to figure this out! As the points between the hinge and the mount point for the actuator decrease, the travel of the tip of the gate increases. I could share my geometry calculations, if you want!

I used the trim tab kit that has the 2.5" travel actuators. In hindsight, I should have ponied up the money for the 4.5" kit. I don't see any issues with strength. As others have said, the force on the gate is not that great, and the actuator is rated for 500 pounds of force. Even at that angle, it is not encountering that much force.

[Edit] Also, as you can see from this pic (from a 2013 Malibu VLX), Malibu has the actuator mounted similarly:

Edited September 7, 2012 by Tao of Wake

[martinarcher]

Cool. Thanks for the info!

rugger - I think you would be fine adding another 3-4" to your platform. The 2013 decks seem really long based on the pics I've seen. At high speeds my deck is way above the waterline.

[boardjnky4]

I had to do that to get the max travel out of the actuator. If I mounted it closer to the center of the tab, it wouldn't push the gate out far enough. Believe me, I had to recall my geometry lessons to figure this out! As the points between the hinge and the mount point for the actuator decrease, the travel of the tip of the gate increases. I could share my geometry calculations, if you want!

I used the trim tab kit that has the 2.5" travel actuators. In hindsight, I should have ponied up the money for the 4.5" kit. I don't see any issues with strength. As others have said, the force on the gate is not that great, and the actuator is rated for 500 pounds of force. Even at that angle, it is not encountering that much force.

[Edit] Also, as you can see from this pic (from a 2013 Malibu VLX), Malibu has the actuator mounted similarly:

I'd love to see the calculations if you don't mind. Not because I want to prove you wrong. I am just curious for my own use.

Edited September 7, 2012 by boardjnky4

[Tao of Wake]

I'd love to see the calculations if you don't mind. Not because I want to prove you wrong. I am just curious for my own use.

I used the above to figure it out. First you have to calculate A = 6.87 inches. Then using this dimension, I calculated B = 135.266 degrees. This makes C = 44.734 degrees and D = 4.91 inches.

If you decrease the actuator to hinge dimension from 5 inches to 4 inches, here are the results: A = 7.5 inches, B = 144.341 degrees, C = 35.659 degrees, D = 6.09 inches.

As you can see, as you decrease the distance between the actuator and hinge mount points, the angle (B) increases, therefore, the travel at the end of the gate increases.

[nyryan2001]

Tao- any pics of the surfwake before you winterized?

[boardjnky4]

I used the above to figure it out. First you have to calculate A = 6.87 inches. Then using this dimension, I calculated B = 135.266 degrees. This makes C = 44.734 degrees and D = 4.91 inches.

If you decrease the actuator to hinge dimension from 5 inches to 4 inches, here are the results: A = 7.5 inches, B = 144.341 degrees, C = 35.659 degrees, D = 6.09 inches.

As you can see, as you decrease the distance between the actuator and hinge mount points, the angle (B) increases, therefore, the travel at the end of the gate increases.

Based on the malibu pictures and more thought, you're right that it's likely plenty strong at that angle. However, if you increased the distance along the transom, and decreased the distance on the tab, you would get the same angle. It doesn't really matter though.

I have to say, after seeing your setup, I am really excited to get my trim tabs cleaned up and installed.

[Tao of Wake]

Tao- any pics of the surfwake before you winterized?

Unfortunately, no. It still had a washed out lip. It looks like the gate did not extend out far enough, so that's why next I want to try a longer gate. The one I made out of wood didn't have the "lip" at the top to stop the flow of water over the gate, and it wasn't tall enough.

However, if you increased the distance along the transom, and decreased the distance on the tab, you would get the same angle.

Actually, that is incorrect (as shown by the calculations). As you increase the distance between the actuator and hinge mount points - and therefore, decrease the distance up the gate - it would decrease the angle.

[Tao of Wake]

I was just going through the pics & vids on my camera, and found that my brother had taken a video the last time we were out testing the last gate prototype (white one with the "lip" at the top):

We started at 11.8 MPH because that is what speed the dealer used when I demo'd the 2013 VLX, but this was way too fast on my 07. You will see that I have my wife slow down a little, but I think she just took it to 11.6. I think 11 or even 10.8 would be appropriate. The wave was short, and I couldn't keep up.

Setup was: Full stock ballast (500# center & 2 x 200# rear), 450# in bow, 750# in each rear locker, wedge at minimum (all the way down). As you can see in the video, the wake was very short and has a lot of wash. The height of the wave was likely due to the speed, and the wash I believe is due to the gate not extending out at the correct angle. I plan on testing a longer gate to compensate for this (won't happen until the spring, tho!). As I mentioned before, I also would like the gate removable so that the swim platform would be safer during non-surf usage. What I am envisioning is a small HDPE plate attached to the trim tab and actuator, then the larger gate would attach to this smaller plate. I'll see if I can draw something up of what I am thinking to try to get some ideas from everyone on how to do it right.

[martinarcher]

What speed do you guys normally surf at? Messing with mine, I had the best luck just a shade slower than my normal surf speed. We normally run 10.5-10.8 and it seemed best at around 10 with my gate. Even with the speed a shade slower, the wave was still double the length of my normal wave.

[Slurpee]

What speed do you guys normally surf at? Messing with mine, I had the best luck just a shade slower than my normal surf speed. We normally run 10.5-10.8 and it seemed best at around 10 with my gate. Even with the speed a shade slower, the wave was still double the length of my normal wave.

10.5-10.7 gave the best results with my gate. I used to be going at 11.2 or so with traditional ballast.

[martinarcher]

That's neat you saw the same results.

[tuneman]

There's a few of you that may be interested in the gate I just put on my boat tonight. It's not a Malibu, but it's the ultimate surf machine: Centurion Enzo SV230. Testing tomorrow. Posting details here: http://www.centurion...-my-enzo-sv230/

[wakebrdr94]

great to see others joining in, but I think Malibu just became the ultimate surf machine

[martinarcher]

Nice gate tuneman! Looks pretty good. I'm curious to see how your testing goes.

I have to agree though, Malibu has made it clear this year that they have the ultimate surf machines. We all know after that comment that you haven't been behind a slammed 247. But seriously, the Enzo is certainly a wild surf boat and should make a pretty wicked wave with that gate. I think you'll be pretty amazed at the length of the wave after adding the gate.

[Slurpee]

So it's a couple of days later than I promised, but here's some pictures and video of the normal side. I learned switch since Ronnie doesn't surf Goofy so I don't have to think about staying in the pocket, but tricks are out. Wow, the pocket is wayyyyyy long. I'll find some non SlurpeeGate surf photos tonight and post them for the comparison. This is awesome tech. It doesn't replace displacement, but wow does it ever make my boat 5x more surfable. And of course it's so easy to switch sides now. Thanks Malibu. You just saved me about 80k on a new boat. LOL.

http://youtu.be/vnhjbF3z4P0

I thought I'd show y'all the SlurpeeGate in action. There's no noticeable difference if it's on the other side either.

And the wave we were getting. WakeMD was driving manually without the Perfect Pass, but she was doing awesome at keeping it at 10.7'ish. I was playing with a bit longer wake to be a bit more forgiving of me. It's so easy to shape a wake with the whole hull in the water by moving a couple people around!

[Slurpee]

So here's the Goofy side pre-SlurpeeGate. It's a couple year old photo so I'd be willing to say I dialed it in to about 25% bigger over the years, but you can see that while it's enough to go ropeless it's not big thang.

And the normal side from just a month or so ago with some awesome portable ballast buddies on board. It's about as good as it gets here on that side pre-SlurpeeGate.

[martinarcher]

I think those pics tell the story. Surfgate rules!

[nyryan2001]

There's a few of you that may be interested in the gate I just put on my boat tonight. It's not a Malibu, but it's the ultimate surf machine: Centurion Enzo SV230. Testing tomorrow. Posting details here: http://www.centurion...-my-enzo-sv230/

wow if I had only known. Tune, post of some pics of your ultimate surfwake????

[boardjnky4]

I'll let him post the video, but tuneman is throwing a dope wake with the surfgate on the enzo (he posted in on centurioncrew.com)

[Nitrousbird]

So it's a couple of days later than I promised, but here's some pictures and video of the normal side. I learned switch since Ronnie doesn't surf Goofy so I don't have to think about staying in the pocket, but tricks are out. Wow, the pocket is wayyyyyy long. I'll find some non SlurpeeGate surf photos tonight and post them for the comparison. This is awesome tech. It doesn't replace displacement, but wow does it ever make my boat 5x more surfable.

WOW, that looks awesome...that pocket is so much longer than before! But I'm also seeing how much cleaner the wake is as well, as your pre-gate looks about as washy on the top as mine does.

How do you have the boat weighted pre-gate and post gate (I assume you use the wedge on both)? I'm only surf regular, with 750 in the locker, ~500 under the port seats, under seat bag up front filled most of the way, 10.5-10.7 MPH, wedge. I was considering cramming a 1100 in the port side locker but you may have changed my mind.

Also, how do the boat react if you still bias some additional weight on the surfing side with the gate?

[tuneman]

I'll let him post the video, but tuneman is throwing a dope wake with the surfgate on the enzo (he posted in on centurioncrew.com)

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to start a "which boat is better for wakesurfing" war. I've owned two Malibus. But, this year, I set out to find the best surf boat on the market and ended up with a Centurion Enzo. The fit and finish on the boat is absolute crap, but it's all about the wake for me. That's why when I was kneeboarding competitively, Malibu was my boat of choice:-) It's the deep V of the Centurion hull that creates a greater push that a flatter bottom boat can't produce. Just physics. I'm not partial to any boat brand, just want the best wave.

Anyway, here's the first video I posted. It's a bad angle but it's just me in the boat driving and doing video at the same time. First part is no weight, second part is 1000lbs in each locker, 650lbs port side, 250lbs starboard side, 400lbs in the bow, ~3300lbs total, 11mph (gps). The pocket doubled in length, the wash was pushed waaaay over to the dark side and the wave was more rounded without any loss in height from my normal setup. The wave looks flat in the video, but it was about knee high almost immediately and grew as it went back.

For skim, the playground doubled in size. I could ride as far back as I used to go with the surf. For surf, I'm gonna try removing weight from the bow for more peak on the wave. I'll have more video with a better angle this week.

[Slurpee]

WOW, that looks awesome...that pocket is so much longer than before! But I'm also seeing how much cleaner the wake is as well, as your pre-gate looks about as washy on the top as mine does.

How do you have the boat weighted pre-gate and post gate (I assume you use the wedge on both)? I'm only surf regular, with 750 in the locker, ~500 under the port seats, under seat bag up front filled most of the way, 10.5-10.7 MPH, wedge. I was considering cramming a 1100 in the port side locker but you may have changed my mind.

Also, how do the boat react if you still bias some additional weight on the surfing side with the gate?

So before the gate I'd weight as per the following:

400lbs in the bow on the surf side

300lbs in the ski locker

400lbs in the rear locker on the surf side

2 more 400lb bags on the surf side on the floor and on the seat

Wedge

11.2mph

Driver (my crew has shrunk as they went off to college... just me and WakeMD most days)

After I emptied some weight out of the bow, moved one bag on the floor to the other rear locker, and move the other bag to the center of the boat, and slowed down about 0.5mph.

400lbs in each rear locker

300lbs in the ski locker

400lbs on the rear bench

100lbs in the bow

Wedge

10.7mph

Driver.

[Slurpee]

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to start a "which boat is better for wakesurfing" war. I've owned two Malibus. But, this year, I set out to find the best surf boat on the market and ended up with a Centurion Enzo. The fit and finish on the boat is absolute crap, but it's all about the wake for me. That's why when I was kneeboarding competitively, Malibu was my boat of choice:-) It's the deep V of the Centurion hull that creates a greater push that a flatter bottom boat can't produce. Just physics. I'm not partial to any boat brand, just want the best wave.

Anyway, here's the first video I posted. It's a bad angle but it's just me in the boat driving and doing video at the same time. First part is no weight, second part is 1000lbs in each locker, 650lbs port side, 250lbs starboard side, 400lbs in the bow, ~3300lbs total, 11mph (gps). The pocket doubled in length, the wash was pushed waaaay over to the dark side and the wave was more rounded without any loss in height from my normal setup. The wave looks flat in the video, but it was about knee high almost immediately and grew as it went back.

For skim, the playground doubled in size. I could ride as far back as I used to go with the surf. For surf, I'm gonna try removing weight from the bow for more peak on the wave. I'll have more video with a better angle this week.

Wow, that's cool. I want to play with cutting my gate down to platform height and see if I can stear the wash a bit more. It seems that when the gate gets under water it's not quite as bad a spray across the back. That's got to be a trade-off versus redirected water. Have you tried a taller gate for grins?

I really wanted the end game to be more than a manual gate with my SlurpeeGate, but if you watch my last video the first 12 seconds or so is me filming the stern of the boat with my iphone while surfing (Lifeproof Case and Lifeproof floaty). You'll see there's no way I could fold my gate up near the platform and avoid compromising the wake. The whole platform is dragging in the water. Maybe I could find a neutral position underneath there, but I kind of doubt it. I'll need to think about a gate that can lay down on the platform and be pushed into the wake. Man I hate mechanical engineering. Guess it's manual for the time being.

It's soooooo cool, having something new to explore on these boats for a change. I mean, how many times can you redo ballast plumbing or argue the newest speaker setup before it just gets silly?

[MalibuAdam]

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to start a "which boat is better for wakesurfing" war. I've owned two Malibus. But, this year, I set out to find the best surf boat on the market and ended up with a Centurion Enzo. The fit and finish on the boat is absolute crap, but it's all about the wake for me. That's why when I was kneeboarding competitively, Malibu was my boat of choice:-) It's the deep V of the Centurion hull that creates a greater push that a flatter bottom boat can't produce. Just physics. I'm not partial to any boat brand, just want the best wave.

Anyway, here's the first video I posted. It's a bad angle but it's just me in the boat driving and doing video at the same time. First part is no weight, second part is 1000lbs in each locker, 650lbs port side, 250lbs starboard side, 400lbs in the bow, ~3300lbs total, 11mph (gps). The pocket doubled in length, the wash was pushed waaaay over to the dark side and the wave was more rounded without any loss in height from my normal setup. The wave looks flat in the video, but it was about knee high almost immediately and grew as it went back.

For skim, the playground doubled in size. I could ride as far back as I used to go with the surf. For surf, I'm gonna try removing weight from the bow for more peak on the wave. I'll have more video with a better angle this week.

I'm with you in this, I love my malibu but I surf behind my buddy Mike's Enzo 240 in osoyoos almost every weekend and the wave is the best of any boat out there. I've tried every brand of boat loaded with as much weight as possible and none give the push of the enzo. At the end of the day the boat is very poorly built and very low quality but if surf is all you care about then I'd be all over it too.

[tuneman]

@Slurpee My gate only sticks up about an inch above the platform. You can see it putting up a lot of spray when the boat was unloaded, but when I had it loaded down, the top of the gate was at least a couple of inches below the suface of the water. I don't think the small amount of water that went over the gate and created the 'bubble' you see in the video had any significant effect on the wave shape. Adding height would likely just make spray. I'd say cut it down.