Vehicle to pull 23lsv

[sp0tts]

I would do it anytime, even hitch bumpers and tow him around a bit if he wants.

post video please . I don't honestly think he'd win anything hitching bumpers, but towing 6,000 lbs up a grade I'd love to see...

[footnlongline]

This has got to be one of the most entertaining threads in a while. Hey, My Omni GLH will out pull your dump truck LMAO!!!

[Deephaven]

if the Touareg is a diesel it probably has the nuts to pull it . But would not want to be in front of you when you need to stop real fast. I pull my lsv with a Chevy 2500hd duramax plenty of power. my brother in law has a 2004 jeel grand with a 4.7 v8 and he pulls a 16ft Renelle and it is tough going up the pass with it

ROFL. I just came from a big Silverado and it pulled like crap compared to my tow vehicle now. Bought it just for towing as I couldn't do that behind an M5 and figured a dedicated tow vehicle made sense; however, it had the worst brakes for towing I have ever owned. My old (95) F150 had way better brakes. When it comes to towing, weight, wheelbase, and BRAKES are the most important. It was such crap I decided to scrap the dedicated tow vehicle idea and instead get an all purpose vehicle.

What I bought rides on the same chassis as the Jeep GC and it does stellar. Of course I cheat a bit as the AMG brakes are a wee bit stronger than the Jeep's. Way more motor as well, but that isn't again really the important part. It is only 20" less than a Suburban in length, weighs 300lbs less, but has a far superior drivetrain with more power and a 7 spd transmission. Add the way superior brakes and it smokes the Burban as a tow vehicle.

While a 3/4 ton + truck is surely a good tow vehicle they are absolute horsecrap to drive around when not under load. Add to that the plasti-crap finish of most of them on the inside and to me its absolutely absurd to recommend one to the OP who obviously has other needs besides just the "best" tow vehicle. My biggest concern with the V6 version of the Jeep is if they skimp on the other components as well, ie transmission & brakes. If not, it won't really accelerate the boat all that well but that won't affect the control of the trailer.

[85 Barefoot]

Are we seriously debating whether a compact SUV even with the v10 TDI (which you can't get anymore) with a cummins? I mean seriously.

If those german diesels towed THAT well, their marketing departments did an extremely poor job.

...but seriously, a compact unibody SUV with a 3/4 or 1 ton heavy duty truck? I wonder why the towing capacity is about 1/4 of the capacity of a HD truck. Apparently somebody at the rating departments don't know how to measure because I'm reading a compact german SUV could compete with an HD. I'm sorry, I have no experience towing with a touareg diesel, I'm sure it's fine from what I'm reading, but seriously, the two are being compared as if they could compete with each other up a grade with 6000#s?

[gregtay]

does anyone use a load-leveling hitch on the independent rear suspended small suv's? Someone commented about their MDX wearing out. I would think that would be a big problem for many german suvs, not to mention expensive tire wear, especially on x5 given negative rear camber that would only be severely exacerbated by hitch load.

No load leveling hitch... no need since the Touareg auto levels.. and not just the back susp. When i hook up the boat the rear lifts up to compensate for the load and the front susp drops (because it lifted when the extra weight was applied behind the rear axle. so.. it's level all the time without the need for an extra gadget. The air susp is instant.. meaning it takes about 1 second for it to adjust (there is an on board air compressor and tank that is always presurized, so you don't have to wait around for 3-4 min while the compressor tried to add air to the shocks.

Edited September 8, 2011 by gregtay

[ilovetrains]

I don't know for sure, but I suspect my Dodge Dakota has a lot in common with the Jeep. Maybe the same chassis, I dunno. I tow a 23 LSV with the Dakota and it is not pretty. The truck has the HO V8 ( 275HP) and it struggles a bit on a long incline. A V6 is not going to get it done. Braking with the boat in tow is a huge adreneline rush. I vote no Jeep. You and I both need a real truck.

No - they are completely different.

The Dakota is a body on frame 3/8 ton pick-up. The Grand Cherokee is a uni-body SUV. They share absolutely nothing in common. The older Dakota steering box is similar to the Jeep Wrangler set-up. That is litterally the only inter-change between lines.

[ilovetrains]

Planning on a jeep grand Cherokee v6. 2007 or newer. Pretty close to the max weight. Anyone else have experience with this jeep for the job? Thoughts ?

Thanks

Claudio

I own an 06 23 LSV. I have towed it with several vehicles, I wioll put down the experience with each, you decide what you think. For the record, I would never tow it with any uni-body SUV. That is because I like my boat, but I love my family. To each their own.

2002 Cheby Tahoe Z-71 - 5.3 had guts enough to get it there, but the transmission was over-whelmed. Panic stops were in fact panicky, but it maintianed control.

2006 Ram 2500 CTD. With a 6 speed I could downshift to walking speed without ever touching brakes. Amazing tow vehicle. The LSV was nothing to it. Wish I still had that truck. Towed over 20K lbs with it without problem.

2006 Jeep Commander - 5.7 HEMI got it going without any problem, but the boat could push the Commander all over the road. It simply did not have heavy enough brakes to keep it under control in panic stops. In the Ozark mountains it was a danger to society. I could keep it under control by staying well under speed limits and allowing huge room for stops, but if someone cut me off, I would have hit them. No way to stop it.

2005 Dodge Durango - again 5.7 had plenty of muscle, much veavier body on frame truck, towed very well. BUT it had toruble stopping it. Brakes simply not big enough to comfortably tow. The power and control led to a false sense of security that the rig was always under control, but in panic stops, or on long downhills it simply could not stop the rig if necessary.

2003 Ford Excursion 6.oh-no - 3/4 ton brakes, diesel power, I feel very comfortable in the mountains towing the load and get decent MPG. Only thing better was the CTD.

[gregtay]

Are we seriously debating whether a compact SUV even with the v10 TDI (which you can't get anymore) with a cummins? I mean seriously.

If those german diesels towed THAT well, their marketing departments did an extremely poor job.

...but seriously, a compact unibody SUV with a 3/4 or 1 ton heavy duty truck? I wonder why the towing capacity is about 1/4 of the capacity of a HD truck. Apparently somebody at the rating departments don't know how to measure because I'm reading a compact german SUV could compete with an HD. I'm sorry, I have no experience towing with a touareg diesel, I'm sure it's fine from what I'm reading, but seriously, the two are being compared as if they could compete with each other up a grade with 6000#s?

i think we have established that "power" isnt' the debate here. The v10 or the cummings should both do just fine towing up a grade.. we have both stated we have no issues putting the same boat over WA Highway 2 (Stevens Pass). From a "pulling" perspective they both have plenty of power. The debate is really... can a mid-sized german SUV with a big TDI motor be just as safe, manuverable, etc as a 3/4 ton truck when pulling a 23LSV sized boat. I can't comment on the 3/4 ton as i have only pulled with a 1/2 ton and my V10 Touareg (but i do know the Touareg had the power and is very safe.) From my own experiance (and reading posts from people with F150's, tahoes, etc) the V10 Touareg is a better choice over that class. With regards to 3/4 ton... I am going to guess at the end of the day the "towing experiance"... meaning power to pull on normal roads, saftey (panic stops, accedent avoidance, etc.) they are likely close to equal. Yes, the 3/4 can pull MORE.. but we are talking about pulling around a 23LSV here.. not 15K pounds. We will always find ways the 3/4 will be better (it certainly holds more stuff in the bed, way less expensive to own, can pull more, etc) and there are also areas the Toaureg would rate better (drivability when not towing, MPGs, ride quality, etc.)... The point is.. they are both great for our purposes.. which is towing our boats to the lake.... we have both stated that and people have agreed with both our statements.. meaning there is no "winner" here... it's about choice. My original reason for posting on this thread was simply that it was headed to the same place as most "towing" threads... "you need a 1 ton truck to pull your boat safely", .. and i was a firm believer in that statment a few years ago but i thankfully discovered that wasn't the only option. I will never put my family at risk... my Touareg has never once made me question my decision to use it to town my boat around.. as i stated before.. it's very difficult to tell it's back there (in fact.. it handles a bit better with the boat hooked up... it balances out the nose heavy nature of the big motor up front.) The rear susp never sways, sags, etc.. the front susp never wanders as many cars do when loaded down in back. Brakes are huge and designed for high speed stopping on the autobahn (which bascially means they need replaced ever 30K and the rotor must be replaced with the pads (by design they wear together.)

And yes.. sadly the V10 is no longer available. My wifes Q7 had the new V6TDI motor and it's strong and pulls the boat fine (same air susp, etc.)... it's just not as fun as the V10. The V10TDI motor was replaced with the much improved (more power, more torque) 4.2TDI V8 motor... this is available in the new 2012 Touareg along with the same 4x4 system and air susp i have in my 2008.. but SADLY... not in the us market. For the US market the Touareg is now a soccer mom mobile... no 4.2TDI, no air susp, no true 4x4 system. Very sad. the reason?... simple. My Toaureg had an MSRP of $78K. The new Touareg with all the goodies in europe is around $120K EUROS.... translate that to US dollars and obviously they would never be able to sell it here.

Yes, I'd love for Clarkson and crew to put together a fun challange to see just how each catagory would do (3/4 ton truck, 1/2 suv, german suv.

Now.. on to more important things.... how many more weeks of boating can we sneak in before the rain comes back!

Edited September 8, 2011 by gregtay

[jesutton3]

To the OP, no I would not recommend the GC to tow with. There are many better options out there, the final choice is yours.

To the Touareg vs Cummins debate. I own an 08 Touareg with the V10 as well as an 11 Ford 250 with the 6.7 Powerstroke. They both tow great and my final decision on which to pull the boat with comes down to how much other stuff I have to bring with me. If I have a lot of stuff I'm probably going to take the truck. Mainly because its easier to just throw it in the bed and leave than try and secure it in the boat without screwing up the vinyl going down the road.

The only reason I have the truck is for work (some items are too large for the cargo area while others are dirty and I don't want them in Touareg). I feel way more confident towing with the Touareg than I did with my previous 05 Avalanche.

In the end this is similar to arguing over if its better to drive a 16d nail with a regular hammer or a 20 lb sledge hammer. They'll both get the job done but come on we're not driving piles here.

Edit: CRAP!!! They were able to sneak in some posts while I was typing and beat me to my analogy.

Edited September 8, 2011 by jesutton3

[footnlongline]

i With regards to 3/4 ton... I am going to guess at the end of the day the "towing experiance"... meaning power to pull on normal roads, saftey (panic stops, accedent avoidance, etc.) they are likely close to equal. :lol: :lol:

[Deephaven]

Take gregtay's one little comment out of this thread and put it in the context for the OP. Sure he compared his Toureg to a 3/4 ton, but I seriously can't imagine the OP going from a JGC to a 3/4ton. Seems to me his comparison should be with other things that are similar which limits things down to the 1/2 ton category in Tahoe/Suburban/Expedition and of course said German SUV's. To put that in perspective the slightly smaller German counterparts are regularly much better at towing than their American brethren. Something about preparing for autobahn trips makes the brake and transmission selection more appropriate. This is of course what makes the bigger difference. Obviously the longer the wheelbase the better for towing stability, but giving up a few inches here or there isn't really a major concern. Now how this fits in with the Jeep? It is analogous to one of those German beasts, the only question is where did they cheapen it for our market. If its tranny and brakes aren't up to snuff then it isn't a good choice.

[Bobby Light]

ha.. well you could probably just run over the top of me and end put an end to it. Okay.. so look.. I am sure a 3/4 ton ram is an amazing truck for pulling around the boat.. and yes, even better than my VW. Clearly your truck was built to do one thing really well and i am sure it does it better than most options out there. The VW works for me.. and i know i am well within the safety limits... not even close to the edge.. and that piece of mind. I tried the big truck thing.. i wanted to like it but i got frustrated when i drove to work and attempted to park in the silly little parking spots around Seattle. For me i found something that really does work well.

I'd never run over you that wouldn't be fair. Really though I know it's a great rig, and to be honest the only thing I love my truck for is towing. I don't use it for anything other than towing and hauling stuff around. If I needed a daily driver this truck wouldn't be it, it gets driven on the weekends.

BTW I don't dare take my truck downtown anymore, you're right it's to much of a pain to find a parking spot and the ones I do find I don't fit in. I don't subsribe to having to have a 3/4 ton truck to tow either, I bought it for the interior room (megacab) and truckbed. I take alot of stuff when I go on trips and most SUV's dont have the combination of space and towing power I need.

Maybe I'll get a Teaureg for the wife she's wanting a new car anyways.

Just for the fun of it we could set up some tests of our own. Pull a grade and time it, then do a stopping test. If I loose I loose and will admit it like a man .

Edited September 8, 2011 by 06vlx

[footnlongline]

I'm sure the Tourag is a fine car but you loose all credibility when you claim it is in the same class as a 3/4 truck in regards to towing ability.

Tourag diesel has a towing capacity of 7700lbs so it is more comparable to Jeep Commander 5.7 which has a towing capacity of 7200 lbs. A Ram 3/4 4x4 diesel has a tow rating of 22,700 lbs or just shy of 3 times the pulling capacity of the tourage

[Brett B]

I'm sure the Tourag is a fine car but you loose all credibility when you claim it is in the same class as a 3/4 truck in regards to towing ability.

Tourag diesel has a towing capacity of 7700lbs so it is more comparable to Jeep Commander 5.7 which has a towing capacity of 7200 lbs. A Ram 3/4 4x4 diesel has a tow rating of 22,700 lbs or just shy of 3 times the pulling capacity of the tourage

I think you need to read the thread more carefully. Nobody claimed a Touareg had the same towing capacity as a 3/4 ton truck. However those that own them, and that have towed with other trucks, say that the power, breaking, and handling characteristics when towing a 23 LSV are very similar from a driveing and handling perspective. As far as "credibility", have you ever towed a 23 LSV with a V10 TDI Touareg? Because several members who are sharing their experiences here have.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Brett B

[wakeboarder3780]

I don't agree with those on here that say a short wheelbase vehicle is not good. How do you explain a semi towing a 53' box trailer fully loaded?? It comes down to braking capacity. I don't think the brakes on your Jeep are going to be adequate enough.

This is a really good analogy. I hadn't thought about it before. I always thought a longer wheelbase added more stability. I guess the only thing that gives you stability is the traction (level of friction) of your rear tires, which is going to be determined by surface area of tires (more rubber on the road on your rear = more surface area) combined with the weight on top of them - right? Is that true? does wheelbase really play no role in stability?

Edit: Obviously *safety* is the combination of braking power AND stability, but lets just talk about stability here - like you're going around a corner and need to brake hard and you don't want the boat to push you around.

Edited September 8, 2011 by wakeboarder3780

[Bill_AirJunky]

This is a really good analogy. I hadn't thought about it before. I always thought a longer wheelbase added more stability.

Probably comes from rigs like the CJs. Even the Wrangler is not a great tow rig, no matter what kind brakes they have. It just doesn't have the weight & suspension to keep the boat from pushing the rig around.

[Tims]

For me the real question is how much towing you will be doing? If it is short trips to the boat ramp, with less than 5% of total hours towing, then a smaller SUV with appropiate towing capacity will work well. My wife drove a TDI Touareg, and it would do just fine towing our VTX, but it was not in the same class as my F250 diesel for longer trips and I would never use it for trips over 30 miles. Comparing a heavy duty truck designed to tow, to a mid size SUV, is apples to oranges. Don't get me wrong, loved the way the Touareg performed, but would not risk the potential damage to a $70K SUV.

Problems arise form the long term effects of sustained towing on any mid size or smaller SUV. The smaller lock up clutches in the converters, lack of full floating axles to handle hitch weight, transmission oil temp, sustained boost levels (high EGT's), and small diff gears, will lead to premature wear. An associate at work towed a 5000 pound travel trailer with this Jeep Grand Cheorkee (5.7L) and killed the transmission at 20K. Problem was, he was driving with the converter locked up and the clutches could not handlle the sustained torque. It was not about power or brakes; the heat killed it. Granted, he was driving sustained freeway trips with frequent elevation changes (smokey mountians) but was within his towing capacities.

Bigger is usually always better (and safer) when it comes to towing and sustainability. Good luck in your search.

[footnlongline]

I think you need to read the thread more carefully. Nobody claimed a Touareg had the same towing capacity as a 3/4 ton truck. However those that own them, and that have towed with other trucks, say that the power, breaking, and handling characteristics when towing a 23 LSV are very similar from a driveing and handling perspective. As far as "credibility", have you ever towed a 23 LSV with a V10 TDI Touareg? Because several members who are sharing their experiences here have.

This is what he said

. I am happy to say that my Touareg likely pulls my 23LSV safer/better/faster than a 3/4 ton truck... meaning in a panic stop or quick manuver I would much rather be in the Touareg..

I tow with a heavy duty 3/4 QCLWB ram, has he towed with it? Are you too trying to say that thing is better, faster, safer? With a 23 lsv and trailer he is close to 3/4 of his towing capacity where I am not even at a 1/4. Do the math, I don't need to drive it to know which is better safer and faster pulling a LSV 23 behind it. My brake rotors and calipers make touareg calipers look like the ones on my mountain bike. My rear axle probably weighs more than his engine. I often pull twice the weight of the LSV , trailer combo and don't even know it is there, that weight would burn that Tourag up so sorry, it is not better, safer or faster, no way no chance. I am not saying it is not a good choice or a very capable tow vehicle. If I was only pulling a LSV, I am sure that I would give that vehicle strong consideration but the reason you don't see excavators towing their tractors with Tourags is cause the truck is simply better, safer, faster.

[CoMtnBu]

Since we're all now in a big pissing match lets at least compare apples to apples. Saying the Dodge can pull 3x a Touareg isn't a fair comparison cause I'm pretty sure none of you guys have you Bu on a gooseneck trailer.

I'd love a 3/4 ton diesel but it's not practical. What grey is saying is that a v10 touareg offers comprable towing perfomance towing an LSV, not a 15,000lb construction trailer. He's also mentioned that it gives him the practicallity he needs during the work week.

Looking into new tow vehicles two years ago the German's actually put bigger brakes and better transmissions in there offerings. As far as our American counterparts I'd lookinto a 3/4 ton Suburban, Denali, Escalade, or and 09 Tahoe with the 6.2 liter.

Where I live, I really wanted the extra gears availiable in the German models. Finally though GM and Ford started adding gears to their powertrains.

Just saw a show with a 64 Pontiac with a 4 speed auto. Did it really take Detroit over 40 years to start making better transmissions?

[Tims]

I'm sure the Tourag is a fine car but you loose all credibility when you claim it is in the same class as a 3/4 truck in regards to towing ability.

Tourag diesel has a towing capacity of 7700lbs so it is more comparable to Jeep Commander 5.7 which has a towing capacity of 7200 lbs. A Ram 3/4 4x4 diesel has a tow rating of 22,700 lbs or just shy of 3 times the pulling capacity of the tourage

Don't mean to get off course, but I believe you are quoting the max combined GVW of your dodge at 22,700. Assuming that your truck weighs around 7500 pounds empty your max towing weight is 15,200 with a 5th wheel/goose neck, and probably around 11.000 at the bumper.

[jk13]

To the OP, no I would not recommend the GC to tow with.

I feel way more confident towing with the Touareg than I did with my previous 05 Avalanche.

Pretty much sums it up right there.

Now excuse me while I fire up the Kenworth to pull the Echelon 5 miles to the lake.

[Bobby Light]

Pretty much sums it up right there.

Now excuse me while I fire up the Kenworth to pull the Echelon 5 miles to the lake.

Sums up what, the fact it tows better than an underpowered 1/2 ton. Duh .

[jk13]

Sums up what, the fact it tows better than an underpowered 1/2 ton. Duh .

Yup, which probably in turn tows better than a Grand Cherokee V6.

[Bobby Light]

Yup, which probably in turn tows better than a Grand Cherokee V6.

I'd say that's a pretty fair statement.

[footnlongline]

Since we're all now in a big pissing match lets at least compare apples to apples. Saying the Dodge can pull 3x a Touareg isn't a fair comparison cause I'm pretty sure none of you guys have you Bu on a gooseneck trailer.

I'd love a 3/4 ton diesel but it's not practical. What grey is saying is that a v10 touareg offers comprable towing perfomance towing an LSV, not a 15,000lb construction trailer. He's also mentioned that it gives him the practicallity he needs during the work week.

Looking into new tow vehicles two years ago the German's actually put bigger brakes and better transmissions in there offerings. As far as our American counterparts I'd lookinto a 3/4 ton Suburban, Denali, Escalade, or and 09 Tahoe with the 6.2 liter.

Where I live, I really wanted the extra gears availiable in the German models. Finally though GM and Ford started adding gears to their powertrains.

Just saw a show with a 64 Pontiac with a 4 speed auto. Did it really take Detroit over 40 years to start making better transmissions?

I totally get what you are saying, I didn't make the comparison between the touareg and the 3/4 ton truck and never would cause it is ridiculous. I am not dissing the Touareg and I am not challenging it's towing prowess, I am just pointing out the obvious.