Vehicle to pull 23lsv

[Wakes]

First I will say I loved my Suburban 2500, until I pulled up to the pump and dropped $160 on a tank of gas.... I'll be in the market for a new vehicle soon and right now I am pretty glad I have a Response and not a 23LSV... I'll probably go with a 1/4 ton haha

[gorilla]

I didn't mean to start a pissing contest, but you CAN'T compare the pulling/stopping power of a big truck/suv to a smaller one. Size matters, period.......just ask your wife. hahahaha, just kidding. I'm sure the T-Reg does a good job and I was thinking of buying a TDI a few yrs back, but I needed a bed, so bought the Cummins.

[gregtay]

Dude you're not gonna tell me a toureg pulls a 23 or any boat better than a 3/4 ton cummins diesel. Not sure about mileage on a toureg but I get 12.5 towing my boat but truck is lifted with big tires. That's averaging 70 mph including over the passes.

BTW I'm not saying it doesn't tow good but give me a break.

Edit: I thought it noteworthy to add there is no doubt in my mind a toureg is more comfortable to tow with.

I towed over Stevens Pass last week with the cruise set at 75... it might have downshifted to 5th at the top... but i never went over 2K rpms... so yes.. i am really saying that... my Touareg has a V10 twin turbo TDI and it honestly doesn't drive much different with or without the boat going over that pass. And yes.. i get better then 12.5 MPG's towing the boat... I averaged 15mpg's on a trip over to Spokane in June.

[gregtay]

His may pull pretty darn good with the V10 TDI though, I'd be more interested in a panic stop/maneuvering situation and my money is on the 3/4 ton in that scenario.

I know it's hard to believe.. but I think you would be surprised. I have had two panic stops... no wagging.. no drama.. just some huge brakes doing what they are designed to do. I know.. it all sounds silly.. hard to believe.. and i must be smoking something... i use to think that as well, but with all the tech in the Touareg (auto leveling air susp, tow management program, ect.) it really does town better than anything else i have tried (plus i can drive it to work on Monday morning and find a place to park:))

[gregtay]

Touareg pulls a 747 Oh.. and just for fun... this is what the Touareg is capable of (and note how much extra weight they added) Of course rather useless in real life.. but still fun:) I only post all this about the Touraeg/Cayenne/Q7 to help people out who are in my situation.. don't want dedicated tow truck.. but need something civil to drive all week long. Again.. not a cheap option.. but at least there is an option. Edited September 8, 2011 by gregtay

[Bobby Light]

I don't doubt you get better mileage, your car comes to my bumper. I take the pass at 70-75 at 1700 rpm never comes out of overdrive. Sorry man aint buying it tows better than a 8000# diesel truck.

[Bobby Light]

Do you really think a diesel truck couldn't do the same thing . There is a reason they are rated to tow over 20,000 lbs.

[Bobby Light]

Touareg pulls a 747 Oh.. and just for fun... this is what the Touareg is capable of (and note how much extra weight they added) Of course rather useless in real life.. but still fun:) I only post all this about the Touraeg/Cayenne/Q7 to help people out who are in my situation.. don't want dedicated tow truck.. but need something civil to drive all week long. Again.. not a cheap option.. but at least there is an option.

That is where the toureq outshines a diesel truck.

[gregtay]

I don't doubt you get better mileage, your car comes to my bumper. I take the pass at 70-75 at 1700 rpm never comes out of overdrive. Sorry man aint buying it tows better than a 8000# diesel truck.

That not surprising... i won't expect you to believe it.. I didn't believe it myself before i tried it... but my 6000# Toaureg with a V10TDI up front and a bunch of tech that keeps things leveled and planted would probably surprise you.

[Sunscape fan]

There are many things to consider when choosing a tow vehicle. HP should be considered, but it isn't the most important thing in my opinion. I would make sure to look at the GCVWR(gross combined vehicle weight rating) of the tow vehicle. If the GVW of the tow vehicle and GVW of the Boat/trailer is higher than the GCVWR of the tow vehicle, then it isn't safe to tow with that vehicle. Now I know there will be people on here that say the auto manufacturers put low GCVWR's on their vehicles so they are covered as far as liability is concerned and that the vehicle can really tow more. While they may be correct, it still isn't recommended. As someone on here stated, the 80% rule is a good one, but I would make that 80% including gear. You never want to max out your towing capacity. You also want to look at the suspension of the tow vehicle. If it can't tow the boat/trailer level, then it isn't good enough. The road to my lake has quite a few really bad dips and bumps. I tow with a 2008 chevrolet silverado with the 5.3. The rear suspension, in my opinion is only just good enough. My next truck will be a 2500. If I go over the dips and bumps to fast it almost feels like the back of the truck is bouncing off the road...not good.

I don't agree with those on here that say a short wheelbase vehicle is not good. How do you explain a semi towing a 53' box trailer fully loaded?? It comes down to braking capacity. I don't think the brakes on your Jeep are going to be adequate enough. I know our boat trailers have surge disc brakes(the new ones anyway), but surge brakes are not as good as electric brakes since once you slow down most of the braking is done by the tow vehicle.

Gregtay: I am happy to say that my Toureg likely pulls my 23LSV safer/better/faster than a 3/4 ton truck... meaning in a panic stop or quick manuver I would much rather be in the Touareg... no question. This statement is a rediculous one. I am giving you the benefit of the doubt(as I am not sure the model of Toureg) and am assuming you own a 2011 TDI turbocharged diesel. I looked up the specs on Volkswagens website. It has 310hp and 557lbs/ft of torque. It has a max towing capacity (with a braked trailer) of 7700lbs. Now if you compare that to a 2011 Silverado 2500 6.6L turbodiesel, it has 397hp and a staggering 765lbs/ft of torque. The crew cab 2WD version with the diesel has a max towing capacity of 13000lbs!! I didn't look, but I think the Cummins from Dodge is even more powerful. How could you possibly think a toureg is safer/better/faster than a 2500 truck???? If it works for you then great, I'm happy for ya, but you are pushing that toureg to almost it's maximum considering a 23LSV fully loaded with gear and full fuel tank will probably tilt the scale at about 6900lbs. Not much wiggle room in my opinion

As far as the OP considering a jeep v6 for a tow vehicle, please please reconsider. Unless of course you're pulling a skier or maybe a response. Then sure go ahead.

Edited September 8, 2011 by Sunscape fan

[pennery]

Greg, I love your tow vehicle.

[Sunscape fan]

Touareg pulls a 747 Oh.. and just for fun... this is what the Touareg is capable of (and note how much extra weight they added) Of course rather useless in real life.. but still fun:)

Oh well then I guess the 23LSV is a piece of cake.

[sp0tts]

I don't doubt you get better mileage, your car comes to my bumper. I take the pass at 70-75 at 1700 rpm never comes out of overdrive. Sorry man aint buying it tows better than a 8000# diesel truck.

I think you two should set up a friendly little race It might be more interesting than you would think. I haven't driven the V10, but I do drive it's sister that has fairly similar horsepower specs and a little less torque. The last Cummins I towed with was a 2004, but I have towed with 2 newer Chevy 3500s. All I'll say is the Cayenne's/Touaregs with those larger turbocharged engines have very impressive acceleration, even when going up big grades with heavy boats behind them.

[Bobby Light]

I would do it anytime, even hitch bumpers and tow him around a bit if he wants.

[JTech]

We would have bought a Diesel Touareg to tow our LSV but the wife wanted the extra room that the Denail offers... I will probably buy one when I pay off the car in a year.

Edited September 8, 2011 by JTech

[jjackkrash]

I think asking how much weight a vehicle can physically pull over a hill is a different question than asking how safely a vehicle can pull a load over a hill within its design limits. Also, there are lots of different factors that come into play that can effect the safety and stability of the tow. Just slowing down is one way to improve safety and stability, but there are lots of other variables that come into play.

I tow with a 2010 2500 Chevy and its a very stable platform, but I am also starting to come around to the idea that there's more to towing safety and stability than tow-vehicle weight, wheel base, and body-on-frame construction, which is what the Chevy relies on. I have been looking at daily drivers for the wife that can double as a tow vehicle when we need it and I have been pretty impressed with some of the mid-size german SUVs. The German vehicles like the Touareg rely more on big brakes, adjustable air and independent suspension, low center of gravity, wide tires, and anti-sway computer software to compensate for less tow-vehicle weight and a shorter wheel base and unibody construction. Its also important to get the right type of hitch and to get the hitch closer to the center of the rear axle or, better yet, closer to the CG, i.e., like a 5th Wheel hitch does, or the way a Hensley Arrow hitch simulates a Fifth Wheel hitch by projecting the pivot point to the center of the rear axle, or, in the case of some of the German (and now other) SUVs, just getting the rear axle physically closer to the rear bumper. Its no different than putting the ski pylon in front of the engine in a DD as compared to just hooking the ski rope onto the stern--the first way results in a stable pull and the other results in taking out every other boat guide in the slalom course.

Check out this thread on an X-5 towing a pretty heavy TT with a Hensley Arrow Hitch:

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e53-forum/640-x5-towing-capabilities-31-airstream.html

There's also a guy on the airstream forums who goes by AndrewT who apparently tests tow vehicles for a living who swears his X5 will crush any full size truck in safety handling tests pulling the same load (see, e.g., post # 9):

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463/interesting-article-re-bmw-x5-and-towing-30589.html

I'm not necessarily convinced I'd rather have the smaller X5 or Touareg in an emergency situation, but I also don't think I'd bet my house that my Chevy would beat the X5 or Touareg through a slalom course with each towing a 6k lbs. load if they were properly equipped for towing. I certainly don't think gregtay's claims about the towing prowess of his Touareg are that outlandish.

[gregtay]

I would do it anytime, even hitch bumpers and tow him around a bit if he wants.

ha.. well you could probably just run over the top of me and end put an end to it. Okay.. so look.. I am sure a 3/4 ton ram is an amazing truck for pulling around the boat.. and yes, even better than my VW. Clearly your truck was built to do one thing really well and i am sure it does it better than most options out there. The VW works for me.. and i know i am well within the safety limits... not even close to the edge.. and that piece of mind. I tried the big truck thing.. i wanted to like it but i got frustrated when i drove to work and attempted to park in the silly little parking spots around Seattle. For me i found something that really does work well.

[dlll]

if the Touareg is a diesel it probably has the nuts to pull it . But would not want to be in front of you when you need to stop real fast. I pull my lsv with a Chevy 2500hd duramax plenty of power. my brother in law has a 2004 jeel grand with a 4.7 v8 and he pulls a 16ft Renelle and it is tough going up the pass with it

[gregtay]

if the Touareg is a diesel it probably has the nuts to pull it . But would not want to be in front of you when you need to stop real fast. I pull my lsv with a Chevy 2500hd duramax plenty of power. my brother in law has a 2004 jeel grand with a 4.7 v8 and he pulls a 16ft Renelle and it is tough going up the pass with it

How big are the brakes on your Chevy and what does your truck tip the scales at?

Edited September 8, 2011 by gregtay

[odfirefighter]

Just get a 3500 dually diesel and never look back, i pull my 21 sslx and cant even tell its there even without trailerbrakes, (still need to rebuild them) they were gone when i bought the boat.

[sp0tts]

if the Touareg is a diesel it probably has the nuts to pull it . But would not want to be in front of you when you need to stop real fast. I pull my lsv with a Chevy 2500hd duramax plenty of power. my brother in law has a 2004 jeel grand with a 4.7 v8 and he pulls a 16ft Renelle and it is tough going up the pass with it

Cayenne/Touareg is a totally different vehicle than a Grand especially with brakes and suspension. The average pickup truck 60-0mph in about 130-140ft. Cayenne Turbo/Touareg V10 60-0 in 110 feet (6 piston Brembos 350mm rotors). The weight argument isn't valid either, as the model years being discussed here weigh as much as a single cab 1500 Chevy or F-150. And the suspension is truly the most amazing part of the Cayenne/Touareg. I mentioned before towed many times with new 3500hd's and for towing a 5-6500lb boat I'll take the Cayenne/Touareg every time and anyone who has driven mine would agree.

[odfirefighter]

Not always true as it really depends on the vehicle... my Touareg pulls my 23LSV with ease... absolutly no "tail wagging the dog"... never, ever.. period. There are "smaller" vehicles out there designed to tow and they are designed correctly.. meaning you don't have to have a full size 3/4 ton truck to pull a boat. In fact... I am happy to say that my Touareg likely pulls my 23LSV safer/better/faster than a 3/4 ton truck... meaning in a panic stop or quick manuver I would much rather be in the Touareg... no question. (and I had a full size Tundra and an Armada before the Touareg. So.. towing safely in a non-full size truck can be done very safely (not to meantion fast, effortless, and with good MPGs.) I have towed my boat over 2000 miles this summer... and the only problem i have had is almost forgetting it's back there! That up mountains, on twisty roads, in the rain, in the heat, etc. There is simply no stopping th Touareg. My wife's Q7 tows the boat about the same.. but the Toaureg has more power to i prefer to tow with it. Sp... there are solutions out there... although they are not cheap.)

I have often wanted to get the Top Gear guys to do a comparison.. giant american truck vs. german SUV's for towing... i think people would be shocked at the results.

Oh.. back to the question at hand... no.. i don't think i'd tow the 23LSV with a V6 jeep CG. Maybe if you could get the older model with the CDI motor and air susp (did they offer that?).. then "maybe".. but still might be pushing it. If you can feel the boat back there then you are likely in an equation where bad things are going to happen if you get in a sticky situation.

Not to step on any toes but have u ever actualy pulled with 1 ton dualy diesel? I dont think there is a comparison here, its two completely different levels of towing ability, i used to think my full size tundra with a 5.7 pulled my fifth wheel pretty good and safely, untill i got a dodge dually cummins, its not even comparable in how much better the dodge pulled that trailer, im up to a 16000 lb fifth wheel now and have a new 2011 dualy cummins and it pulls 70 absolutely beautifully, not sure ur vw could match that weight rating.

[sp0tts]

I think asking how much weight a vehicle can physically pull over a hill is a different question than asking how safely a vehicle can pull a load over a hill within its design limits. Also, there are lots of different factors that come into play that can effect the safety and stability of the tow. Just slowing down is one way to improve safety and stability, but there are lots of other variables that come into play.

I tow with a 2010 2500 Chevy and its a very stable platform, but I am also starting to come around to the idea that there's more to towing safety and stability than tow-vehicle weight, wheel base, and body-on-frame construction, which is what the Chevy relies on. I have been looking at daily drivers for the wife that can double as a tow vehicle when we need it and I have been pretty impressed with some of the mid-size german SUVs. The German vehicles like the Touareg rely more on big brakes, adjustable air and independent suspension, low center of gravity, wide tires, and anti-sway computer software to compensate for less tow-vehicle weight and a shorter wheel base and unibody construction. Its also important to get the right type of hitch and to get the hitch closer to the center of the rear axle or, better yet, closer to the CG, i.e., like a 5th Wheel hitch does, or the way a Hensley Arrow hitch simulates a Fifth Wheel hitch by projecting the pivot point to the center of the rear axle, or, in the case of some of the German (and now other) SUVs, just getting the rear axle physically closer to the rear bumper. Its no different than putting the ski pylon in front of the engine in a DD as compared to just hooking the ski rope onto the stern--the first way results in a stable pull and the other results in taking out every other boat guide in the slalom course.

Check out this thread on an X-5 towing a pretty heavy TT with a Hensley Arrow Hitch:

http://www.xoutpost.com/bmw-sav-forums/x5-e53-forum/640-x5-towing-capabilities-31-airstream.html

There's also a guy on the airstream forums who goes by AndrewT who apparently tests tow vehicles for a living who swears his X5 will crush any full size truck in safety handling tests pulling the same load (see, e.g., post # 9):

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463/interesting-article-re-bmw-x5-and-towing-30589.html

I'm not necessarily convinced I'd rather have the smaller X5 or Touareg in an emergency situation, but I also don't think I'd bet my house that my Chevy would beat the X5 or Touareg through a slalom course with each towing a 6k lbs. load if they were properly equipped for towing. I certainly don't think gregtay's claims about the towing prowess of his Touareg are that outlandish.

I did a ton of research on owner forums prior to my purchase as I was considering an X5d. In the end a CPO'd Cayenne was cheaper and I felt it was more vehicle. Everything I read prior to my purchase pointed to the Touareg/Cayenne being the better tow vehicle because of the air suspension and the X5s stiffer more car like tuning. Not saying the X5 can't tow, but from the opinions I've seen of people who have owned/own and towed with both, the Cayenne/Touareg has always had the edge, even from the owners on the X5 forums.

As for the slalom course, it's nothing but windy roads between my house and my ramp and from my experiences towing with a 3500HD and a Cayenne Turbo, I don't think you'd outperform a V10 or CTT in that realm.

Edited September 8, 2011 by sp0tts

[Bozboat]

we need Top Gear to check this out

[85 Barefoot]

does anyone use a load-leveling hitch on the independent rear suspended small suv's? Someone commented about their MDX wearing out. I would think that would be a big problem for many german suvs, not to mention expensive tire wear, especially on x5 given negative rear camber that would only be severely exacerbated by hitch load.