It happened again. Scary month to be a boat manufacturer

[Calexan]

To me, it just seems like a fix for Yahama is greater than a $5 rudder. If it was something simple it would have already been put in practice. These Jet Ski manufacturers havnt just neglected putting the part on for monetary reasons. Not being able to steer is just the way water propulsion engines work. Im not sure that there is an easy way to make steering without power work or it would have already been done. Guess they should just pull all of them off the market till the physics of water jet propulsion engines work.

PS my boat doesnt turn for crap without power.....

[jkendallmsce]

Do enlighten me with the design that would prevent that in a malibu (you won't be able to) .... and therein lies the distinction. The "fix" for PWCs was well-known, and of course is now used.

Please explain to all us non experts why the "fix" for PWCs will not work on a Malibu? If the "fix" is well known, why doesn't Malibu install that well known "fix" on all their boats??

Cause when I cut the power on my response, it will not turn. It may drift a few degrees in the direction I am turning the steering wheel, but will not handle the same as if under power. If I tried to turn around the turn island not under power, I'd be on the rocks.

SO you're saying Malibu is negligent in not installing that well known 'fix" on their boats??

I guess I should be looking for a marine lawyer...maybe that one up in Oroville???

[TenTwentyOne]

I knew what you meant? No I followed your exact analogy and demonstrated it does not work (to my boats anyway). I turn within the confines of the slalom course every single time someone falls. If I did a power turn my ski buddies would fire me. You want me to agree with your example when it's clearly different?

So you are saying that you could be going 35-40mph, back the throttle off 100%, and the boat will steer exactly like it would if you were applying any power...... This I gotta see. Maybe you do have a physics altering BU. I know that mine has very numb/laggy steering when I do what I stated above..... It sorta drifts until it is slowed down considerably.

I realize that our boats still steer if you back partially out of the thottle (like what you would do to return for a downed skier), But that is not what I said. I said completely back out of the throttle, just like this girl did....As in engine idleing. Jet skies steer under part throttle....

[TenTwentyOne]

PS my boat doesnt turn for crap without power.....

Cause when I cut the power on my response, it will not turn. It may drift a few degrees in the direction I am turning the steering wheel, but will not handle the same as if under power. If I tried to turn around the turn island not under power, I'd be on the rocks.

Barefoot is in possession of a freak of nature, physics altering, superbu from planet turnbouy. We are but measly earthbu owners.

[NuBuGuy2011]

... turns out that 1 or both of these girls told the owner they knew how to operate the jet ski - driver was 21, rider was 14 - hope owner did his due diligence to warn them anyway - I do on our 2 gtx's - very paranoid when others ask to drive.

[Bobby Light]

So you are saying that you could be going 35-40mph, back the throttle off 100%, and the boat will steer exactly like it would if you were applying any power...... This I gotta see. Maybe you do have a physics altering BU. I know that mine has very numb/laggy steering when I do what I stated above..... It sorta drifts until it is slowed down considerably.

I realize that our boats still steer if you back partially out of the thottle (like what you would do to return for a downed skier), But that is not what I said. I said completely back out of the throttle, just like this girl did....As in engine idleing. Jet skies steer under part throttle....

Hell yes he can even powerturn without throttle, run figure 8's or whatever else he wants. Duh Winning!!!

[TenTwentyOne]

... turns out that 1 or both of these girls told the owner they knew how to operate the jet ski - driver was 21, rider was 14 - hope owner did his due diligence to warn them anyway - I do on our 2 gtx's - very paranoid when others ask to drive.

Driver is 21 now..... She is the one who survived. This happened in 2005. She was 14 or 15 at the time.

Edited June 14, 2011 by TenTwentyOne

[NuBuGuy2011]

This is a sad and unfortunate accident and 1 girl has lost her life and another is seriously injured for hers. I feel for their families and for the surviving girl.

However, this is not the Manufacturers' fault. This is another example of the litigious nature of our society. ...

Where is the owner of the Jetskis in this situation? Was it not his responsibility to make sure these girls were responsible and able to handle the craft? ...

Would you let your 14 year old take your car out for a spin? No, would you let them take your motorcycle? No. What has happened to common sense?

I have trained my children to be responsible behind the wheel of boats and cars. It is my responsibility to do this as a parent. My Dad taught me. I'm not going to let someone I have no idea of their level of understanding or responsibility drive something I bought and paid for.

Do we really want the Government inserting themselves into the water world we enjoy responsibly? I don't. But, in some ways there has to be a way to protect the manufacturers from this kind of foolish lawsuit and the millions it will cost them. Do Manufacturers need to be accountable for design flaws and errors on their part? Yes by all means but there is no amount of re-design that compensates for stupid and irresponsible!

Every year there are more signs and verbage saying what we can and can;t do on the water on my lake. Every year I see the Jetskiers continue to do foolish and downright stupid things with them.

It is tragic that this girl lost her life and her friend is seriously hurt and maybe there will be some good things that come out of the Manufacturers making their craft safer.

IN the meantime, shouldn't we as responsible boat owners/operators, who have made significant investments in our craft, take responsibility to train everyone operating our crafts to be responsible with them?

well said

[85 Barefoot]

Please explain to all us non experts why the "fix" for PWCs will not work on a Malibu? If the "fix" is well known, why doesn't Malibu install that well known "fix" on all their boats??Cause when I cut the power on my response, it will not turn. It may drift a few degrees in the direction I am turning the steering wheel, but will not handle the same as if under power. If I tried to turn around the turn island not under power, I'd be on the rocks.

SO you're saying Malibu is negligent in not installing that well known 'fix" on their boats??I guess I should be looking for a marine lawyer...maybe that one up in Oroville???

If you would actually read what has been said you will see that is precisely what I'm NOT saying. I have no idea whether Malibu's design is flawed or not. What we do know is that Yamaha knows how to make their PWCs steer off throttle and had that ski done that here, this accident might not have happened.

[stroker-ace]

I was wondering how long it would take for you to chime in and insert one of your famous "torpedo of truths".

[85 Barefoot]

To me, it just seems like a fix for Yahama is greater than a $5 rudder. If it was something simple it would have already been put in practice. These Jet Ski manufacturers havnt just neglected putting the part on for monetary reasons. Not being able to steer is just the way water propulsion engines work. Im not sure that there is an easy way to make steering without power work or it would have already been done. Guess they should just pull all of them off the market till the physics of water jet propulsion engines work.

PS my boat doesnt turn for crap without power.....

seadoo apparently has had it figured out with both brake and off throttle steering:

http://en-us.sea-doo.com/showroom/Watercraft/technology/GTX-iS-215.aspx

[85 Barefoot]

So you are saying that you could be going 35-40mph, back the throttle off 100%, and the boat will steer exactly like it would if you were applying any power...... This I gotta see. Maybe you do have a physics altering BU. I know that mine has very numb/laggy steering when I do what I stated above..... It sorta drifts until it is slowed down considerably.

I realize that our boats still steer if you back partially out of the thottle (like what you would do to return for a downed skier), But that is not what I said. I said completely back out of the throttle, just like this girl did....As in engine idleing. Jet skies steer under part throttle....

I didn't say it would steer "exactly like it would" if applying power, but I did say that the boat will handle, quite well in fact. Which is but one important distinction between a bu and PWCs since you were going thorugh the exercise of comparing the two. Whether Malibu's design is nonetheless flawed, I don't know, I just know that it was a known design flaw of PWCs and easy ways to correct were available.

[TenTwentyOne]

Please explain to all us non experts why the "fix" for PWCs will not work on a Malibu? If the "fix" is well known, why doesn't Malibu install that well known "fix" on all their boats??

Cause when I cut the power on my response, it will not turn. It may drift a few degrees in the direction I am turning the steering wheel, but will not handle the same as if under power. If I tried to turn around the turn island not under power, I'd be on the rocks.

SO you're saying Malibu is negligent in not installing that well known 'fix" on their boats??

I guess I should be looking for a marine lawyer...maybe that one up in Oroville???

Basically, 85barefooter is saying that Yamaha should have put a rudder system on the watercraft so that it would tear out their jugulars when they get hit, instead of plowing them into things....

[NuBuGuy2011]

it appears this case wasn't even reported on accurately:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/pb-waverunner-big-verdict-20110610,0,5958142.story

Not only a lot less but there was blame put on the parent.

... yep - interesting jury decision:

They found Yamaha's distributor and manufacturer 88 percent responsible.

They assigned 1 percent blame to both Samantha (the driver) and retired neurosurgeon Dr. Eugene Holly, who let the girls take out his WaveRunner.

Nicolette Archer (the mother), who took the girls to the party and gave them permission to ride, was held 10 percent responsible.

... makes zero sense that the operator who lied about knowing how to operate, was not of legal age to operate, and was operating out of control was 1% responsible - and this was not an emotional decision according to the other article.

... this jury of common people is the problem w/ our society today - turns out that comon sense is not so common anymore.

Edited June 14, 2011 by NuBuGuy2011

[TenTwentyOne]

I didn't say it would steer "exactly like it would" if applying power, but I did say that the boat will handle, quite well in fact.

Like I said..... U must have a physics altering BU. Congratulations on that.

[85 Barefoot]

Basically, 85barefooter is saying that Yamaha should have put a rudder system on the watercraft so that it would tear out their jugulars when they get hit, instead of plowing them into things....

Is that what I said? That's not even the design the industry uses anyway. Weird.

[jkendallmsce]

If you would actually read what has been said you will see that is precisely what I'm NOT saying. I have no idea whether Malibu's design is flawed or not. What we do know is that Yamaha knows how to make their PWCs steer off throttle and had that ski done that here, this accident might not have happened.

ANd reread mine. I SAID, if Yamaha does know how to make PWCs steer off throttle (as per your previous post), why doesn't Malibu use the same technology on their boats? Why, why, why???

I know your boat is "special" but for the rest of us, who have a normal boat that won't steer when not under power?? We would love to have the 'fix" on our boats!!

IF you're boat does do as you say, you should patent that bad boy and sell it back to Malibu, MC and the rest of the boating world. They'll all snap it up in a second.

[85 Barefoot]

Weird, when I'm driving and someone falls you know what I do? I pull off the throttle and turn right. My boat is able to have made a 180 in not far at all. I must have one of those super handling malibus. When in the course at 34 or 36 I turn around within the confines of the course with absolutely no throttle input. So, I don't think your analogy is comparable...not with my boats anyway.

Hell yes he can even powerturn without throttle, run figure 8's or whatever else he wants. Duh Winning!!!

Like I said..... U must have a physics altering BU. Congratulations on that.

A physics-altering malibu because I can turn it around within the confines of the slalom course?

[jkendallmsce]

Like I said..... U must have a physics altering BU. Congratulations on that.

Is this an example of 85 getting caught flip flopping??? Say it aint so!!!

85s boat is special, just like he is!!

[Bobby Light]

No because you said "it handles quite well actually" without throttle. Don't kid yourself, nobody is buying what you are trying to sell.

[85 Barefoot]

ANd reread mine. I SAID, if Yamaha does know how to make PWCs steer off throttle (as per your previous post), why doesn't Malibu use the same technology on their boats? Why, why, why???I know your boat is "special" but for the rest of us, who have a normal boat that won't steer when not under power?? We would love to have the 'fix" on our boats!!

IF you're boat does do as you say, you should patent that bad boy and sell it back to Malibu, MC and the rest of the boating world. They'll all snap it up in a second.

I don't work for Malibu so I have no idea, but would venture to guess that they concluded 1) it is not necessary and/or 2) off throttle steering solutions for PWCs is inherently different than increasing low-speed maneuverability of an inboard.

Edited June 14, 2011 by 85 Barefoot

[Bill_AirJunky]

seadoo apparently has had it figured out with both brake and off throttle steering:

http://en-us.sea-doo.com/showroom/Watercraft/technology/GTX-iS-215.aspx

Interesting. So has anyone ever played with this thing? Hows it work?

Better yet, suppose it was around in 2005 when the Yamaha this accident on happened? So if this latest innovation is available now, can people still ride, much less loan out older PWCs to other people??

And how much of this personal liability are we no longer accountable for? I loaned out my paddleboards this weekend to a handful of people. I'm pretty sure no one read the manual or the decals on the boards. If they drowned or was hit by a boat, am I 20% liable or the manufacturer 80% liable for the accident?

I suppose I can sue my desk chair manufacturer when I fall out of it too, huh.

Oh, and one more thing to make ya go hmmmmmmm..... don't 13 - 14 yr old girls always tell you they know everything? Why the he11 would you believe them this time??

Edited June 14, 2011 by Bill_AirJunky

[11VLX]

Interesting. So has anyone ever played with this thing? Hows it work?

Better yet, suppose it was around in 2005 when the Yamaha this accident on happened? So if this latest innovation is available now, can people still ride, much less loan out older PWCs to other people??

And how much of this personal liability are we no longer accountable for? I loaned out my paddleboards this weekend to a handful of people. I'm pretty sure no one read the manual or the decals on the boards. If they drowned or was hit by a boat, am I 20% liable or the manufacturer 80% liable for the accident?

I suppose I can sue my desk chair manufacturer when I fall out of it too, huh.

Oh, and one more thing to make ya go hmmmmmmm..... don't 13 - 14 yr old girls always tell you they know everything? Why the he11 would you believe them this time??

Going with your paddle board example which is not comparable probably not.

As far as your desk chair goes if it breaks due to a manufacturers defect then sure. Just think how sad your family would be if your chair manufacturer knew there was a defect in its design and knew there was a fix and didn't do it and you in fact did fall out as a result and broke your neck. Should your family be left to take care of you and pay your medical expenses? Or should the manufacturer who knew that their chair was faulty? If it happens to me you better believe I don't want my family footing the bill.

[TenTwentyOne]

I don't work for Malibu so I have no idea, but would venture to guess that 1) it is not necessary and 2) off throttle steering solutions for PWCs is inherently different than increasing low-speed maneuverability of an inboard.

Who said anything about low speed maneuvering?? We were talking higher speeds....... And Malibu does know how to fix low speed maneuvering....its called "Dual Engines"

[11VLX]

Who said anything about low speed maneuvering?? We were talking higher speeds....... And Malibu does know how to fix low speed maneuvering....its called "Dual Engines"

If the debate is over high speed maneuvering with a Malibu then I think everyone is confused as to their boats capabilities. Take your boat to speed. Say 35-40. Start a turn. Pull back the throttle while continuing the turn. I guarantee that everyones boat will continue the turn and in fact almost complete a 180 in that very spot.

If the Yamaha would have done that this accident would have been avoided.