Switch to serpentine belt pulleys for more charging power

[WakesetterE]

Overview of new verses old pulleys.

[WakesetterE]

After I get the muffler back on and the stereo back in I might put a dc clamp on it to see what I'm getting out of it. I can tell a lot from just my volt meter. My 3 amps could draw together as much as 300 amps or more at peak. Before the swap, even slightly elevated volume would put a severe drain on the system. However, the alternator only puts out what is needed up to its rated output. So, I'de have to run down the batteries first and then test it. The maker rated this alternator for 200 amps. While it was likely a generous rating, compared to 65 am original, it should rock!

After a good day on the water I'll follow up with a final post. Who knows, it may throw the belt, slip, or just be fine.

Edited May 15, 2011 by WakesetterE

[WakesetterE]

Ok, here is a follow up in case anyone is considering this mod for greatly improved alternator current and to run big stereo amps without depending on a flotilla of batteries that will just discharge anyway.

The boat (2000 wakesetter escape) was run all Memorial day weekend, surfing, wake boarding, slalom and air chair. Let me say i was very concerned the one wire alternator would not "kick in" low enough causing the batteries to discharge until a higher rpm was obtained. Essentially, this alternator has one positive lead coming off it to the battery, with no other wires connected. Turns out, it worked great! On cranking the alternator was putting out 13.9v. Although I am running two 29 marine batteries, the 3 stereo amps I'm running have the potential to draw 200 amps or more easily. With long periods of high volumes out of the stereo, I was unable to draw the batteries down while running the boat. The belt never slipped, or made a noise. The voltage meter was nearly always at 13.8 v. Fuel mileage and power did not have a noticeable change. (obviously a larger alternator draws more hp at output and that would use more fuel, it was just so slight it wasn't noticeable.)

I havent tested the output of the 200 amp alternator, but still hope to in the future. I'm not certain while some believe its really a stock alternator with a 200 amp label. However, the arm chair quarterbacks can theorize the 200 amp alternator isn't producing 200 amps. It may be making 190, 205, maybe 175 amps? The success here is I had 65 amps of charging power before which greatly restricted what I could continuously operate in terms of amperage. This includes lights, music, etc... The real fix turns out to be a $170, 200 amp alternator and a set of serpentine pulleys. Most boats made after 2003 already have the serpentine pulleys. Before I would bury the voltage when the stereo was cranked as the old alternator just couldn't keep up. Now I can crank the tunes and not have to run home and shore charge a gaggle of batteries, because mine charges as I drive the boat. I don't park and play, and a high amp alternator isn't going to do anything for you if your engine is off, of course.

Next I will find a DC amp probe and try to get some readings as to the alternators actual output. I have no reason to doubt the makers 200 amp rating. In a way, it's silly, I have accomplished my original goal. What started out as "it cant be done" is now a reality. 65 amps stock to 200 amps for not a lot of cash, IMO.I've show the links where the stuff was purchased, given the amounts paid, and photographed the process. Many of us run killer stereos on stock alternators. Add up what your amps pull, with everything else, and soon you will see the benefit of the high amp alternator upgrade. Most boats have voltage meter displays. If your voltage is dropping when your stereo is hitting, you alternator isn't keeping up!

[shawndoggy]

Thanks for the great write up. This is definitely going on my need to do project list. So with the serpentine pulleys, you think it's a direct swap? On MEFI 5B, Indmar's wiring diagram shows an orange wire from the alternator to the starter, and then a couple of wires which look like they go to the fuel pump and the ecm. I can't tell from your pics... does this alternator also have those same outputs?

[WakesetterE]

Yes, I had an orange wire from the alternator output post that eventually ran to the battery. The purple wire and other blue? wire, one went to the switched power on the ignition switch, i believe the other was for the alternator light function. Essentially, a normal self regulated alternator requires 12 volts to energize the field in the alternator to begin producing power. The problem is, if the alternator has 12 volts all the time, it will actually drain power out of the battery when the engine is not running. So, the factory switches the smaller purple 12v power wire to allow it to charge when the key is on, and not drain the battery when the key is off. This is why most vehicles drain the battery overnight if a key is left on even while everything else is turned off. However, for the sake of ruggedness and simplicity, the alternator builders can now place a self energizing module in the alternators. These divert a small amount of power from their output to "self energize" their module to begin charging. They can now set this up so this process begins around 500 rpm., so the battery wont drain when the key is left on, and the alternator now has only one output wire.

So, to be specific: I had a 10 gauge orange wire on my alternator output post that went into the boat harness that eventually went to the battery. This was large enough for the old alternator, but way too small for the new alternator. 200 amps going through a 10 gauge wire would burn up, and make a nice space heater before the boat caught on fire. I left the original 10 gauge wire and added a 2/0 wire from the alternator 3/8 lug to the positive battery post. This was overkill, but I had a piece extra 2/0 around. Since this is a one wire alternator, the remaining boat wires (purple and blue) were taped up separately and tied off, not used. The one wire alternator has no other connections than the single output post. The old connections have a plug/cover in place. Very simple. It grounds through the case/bolts/engine block. So the other connections are not used. Everything works as it should and the alternator was a direct swap. I used a 10 SI sized alternator. It was the biggest that would fit in the old location without having to fabricate new mounting brackets. I didn't know this for sure before I tried it, which is how this post began. I don't have a serpentine belt idle pulley, as mine came with a V drive belt. I just tightened the belt the old fashion way, by adjusting the alternator. I see the newer engines are removing the idler pulley as it is now considered a failure point, so I don't miss it.

Good luck and be sure you specify a marine grade alternator to be safe, as I did. The screens are important.

[Hammertime]

Thanks for the great write up. This is definitely going on my need to do project list.

[Pistol Pete]

Glad to hear it's working to your satisfaction. I'm not joking.

[martinarcher]

Nice job. Looks like it turned out really nice!

[Awest]

I am about to add a larger alternator to my 98 vlx and had a quick and probably dumb question about your set up. You mentioned that you left your original 10 AWG wire coming off your alternator that probably went to the starter and added a 2 AWG wire directly from your 3/8th inch lug to your battery. Is there any danger of leaving the original 10 AWG wire on your new alternator? You have two sources charging your batteries? Do I understand this correctly or am I missing something?

I also read another post somewhere on this site that had mentioned taking the red voltage sensing wire from the alternator and connecting that to the bat out lug on the alternator rather than the battery. Is this really acceptable?

[shawndoggy]

I am about to add a larger alternator to my 98 vlx and had a quick and probably dumb question about your set up. You mentioned that you left your original 10 AWG wire coming off your alternator that probably went to the starter and added a 2 AWG wire directly from your 3/8th inch lug to your battery. Is there any danger of leaving the original 10 AWG wire on your new alternator? You have two sources charging your batteries? Do I understand this correctly or am I missing something?

I also read another post somewhere on this site that had mentioned taking the red voltage sensing wire from the alternator and connecting that to the bat out lug on the alternator rather than the battery. Is this really acceptable?

The electrons can't tell the difference. They are going to see one big array of copper.

[WakesetterE]

Shawndoggy is correct. I could have removed the 10 gage red original wire, but it didn't hurt to leave it connected. The current will use both wires, and the 2/0 is plenty big enough not to cause a issue. Now the alternator I used is a "one wire" model. It has the modification you mention built into the voltage regulator. I only have the one output lug on the alternator being used, no other wires are connected. When the alternators spins about 500 rpm the regulator activates and starts charging automatically. So far it works real well!

And be careful about connecting the voltage sensing wire full time to the output lug on the alternator. The wire from the alternator lug runs directly to the battery. So, if you wire the sensing wire to the alternator lug, the alternator is "on" all the time. This can drain your battery when the the alternator isn't spinning over time. They switch that wire with the ignition key switch to prevent the battery from being discharged.

Edited June 12, 2011 by WakesetterE

[Awest]

Shawndoggy is correct. I could have removed the 10 gage red original wire, but it didn't hurt to leave it connected. The current will use both wires, and the 2/0 is plenty big enough not to cause a issue. Now the alternator I used is a "one wire" model. It has the modification you mention built into the voltage regulator. I only have the one output lug on the alternator being used, no other wires are connected. When the alternators spins about 500 rpm the regulator activates and starts charging automatically. So far it works real well!

And be careful about connecting the voltage sensing wire full time to the output lug on the alternator. The wire from the alternator lug runs directly to the battery. So, if you wire the sensing wire to the alternator lug, the alternator is "on" all the time. This can drain your battery when the the alternator isn't spinning over time. They switch that wire with the ignition key switch to prevent the battery from being discharged.

[Awest]

I found the thread that mentioned the sensing wire going to the battery lug on the alternator.

I bought this same alternator from DB electrical. Two wires on it labeled "ignition switch wire" which goes to my purple wire and then "Battery sense wire- 12 volt always" which DB evidently thinks either can go to the battery to prevent over charging or direct to the lug. "Standard practice" is what they said. If is is such standard practice why not just build it that way internally?

Thanks for the help by the way. Now if you could just send some warmer weather my way I could get the boat in the water.

[Slurpee]

Thanks for your great write up. I copied nearly all of it step for step. I didn't need a longer water hose, and getting the cranking pulley on with the muffler right there was a two man affair. I also opted for the 3 wire alternator instead of the 1 wire since the connections were all already there. I wanted sensing of the fuse panel up at the dash to compensate a bit for wire loss when all 4 of my reversible pumps are running so I tied the Excite and 12V sense alternator wires to the purple wire from the dash.

Wow I have power now. No more brownout when I'm running all the electronics and the stereo!!!

[nuttyskier2002]

Great inovation and writeup here! I love it when someone goes above and beyond the norm to engineer something that actually meets the needs of what our boats require. I'd be interested in learning what you are actually pulling from that alternator though, even with the sytem blasting at full volume. 200 amps x 14 volts = 2800 Watts. Thats a lot of sound power. Since music is very dynamic (constantly changing) I honestly doubt you are drawing anything close to 200 amps constantly......even at full volume. That is unless you are driving your amps so hard they are running into distortion (clipping). Since you are not playing your sound system at the beach with the engine off, you aren't having to recharge batteries and most of your generated power goes to your amps. But it's nice to have that much backup capacity built in. But lets say for a second that that the demand did raise to 200 amps (or 2800 Watts). This would only require 3.75 horsepower from your engine. 2800/746 = 3.7533.... (746 Watts = 1 HP). I would think a 3/8" V-belt could handle this occasional demand.

I did a similar mod to my 2006 V-ride where I added an additional 200 amp alt to the accessory setup. I kept the original alt and bought a bracket to mount an SI12-200 amp unit. It powers only the amp battery. The positive circuits are kept separted to keep the alternators isolated from one-another. This keeps the alternators from fighting each other when it comes to voltage regulation. They do share a common ground though. I have 4 amps in my sound system for a total of 1600+ Watts. This system has been in operation for 3+ years and has never given any problems. No belt slipping and never a dead battery. And I am running 3/8" V-belts.

If anyone is interested in this setup I'll be glad to take some pix and post here along with a parts list. Let's keep the inovation going!

[Nitrousbird]

Since the 2004 boats went to serpentine belts, the swap should be a snap... But we will see!

Mine is a 2001 and has a serpentine belt...I'm not rocking a GEN-I SBC though.

But I don't see much reason why going to a serpentine belt shouldn't just be a bolt-on process.

Edit: Now that I read the rest of the thread - looks like it did work easily. I figured it would.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Nitrousbird

[WakesetterE]

Mine is still working perfectly!

[lowbugetwake]

Wakestter, just curious where did you get your info on a v-belt could only support a 80 amp alternator..?

[Night Rider]

Will this 200 amp alternator fit in the stock mounting location of the LSA?

[Night Rider]

Can this type of alternator handle recovery? I have approximately 2500 Watts of stereo that I use occasionally with the engine off. I have a sure charging system, but occasionally need the engine to handle the stress of the stereo and ballast system.

[WakesetterE]

Yes, it recovers great, no issues to date. I have 3300 watts and I do not charge my batteries at home, only on the fly. No issues. I not believe in this inability to recover theory others have offered. I don’t run my batteries completely dead, as its hard on the batteries, and is unnecessary. However, I'm not that guy blasting his system wide open on the sand bar for hours either; however 20 years ago I may have been that guy. . I guess I'm too old for that....wife won’t allow it!

The internet offered the v belt ratings, it’s pretty easy to find. All the new cars with HO alternators use serpentine belts. Even the 100 amp alternators of the old ambulances in the days of only v belts had duel V belts. Serpentine are more efficient and last longer. Put a v belt on a 200 amp alternator and watch it smoke as soon as you load it.

This alternator fit just fine in the stock location. Any larger would not fit! I have put 60 hours on the new set up with no issues to date; I do run 2 large batteries.

Edited June 12, 2012 by WakesetterE

[SmoothWaterMan]

Hey Guys. Be careful with this stuff. I don't know who makes the alternator being discussed but I have to assume it's an overseas vendor. If it is not J1711 rated, meaning if it does not have J1711 stamped on the part, it is dangerous to have it on your boat.

As a dealer and repair shop, we can also not work any any boat that has non-J1711 parts installed on it. (Starter, Alternator, etc)

All electrical components inside an boat engine compartment are required to have an SAE j1711 ignition protection rating. A spark created by an automotive alternator, starter, ignition coil, distributor cap etc. could ignite fuel fumes in the bilge and kill you!!!

This is a federal law and requirement.

Peter.

[WakesetterE]

100% Delco Marine Alternator Mercruiser 1-Wire 200 Amp

1-V PULLEY, 17MM ID

Type:ALTERNATOR Mfr: DELCO Style Voltage: 12 Rotation: CW Amperage :200AMP Regulator:internal regulator

This alternator has the marine screens.

[Darkkstar1500]

I know this is a pretty old post but I was hoping to do this same thing on my boat. I have the upgraded alternator already and it goes through v belts pretty quickly. I have the 340 monsoon Any way to get the part numbers that you used to accomplish this?