Green light for a new (to me) boat

[Woodski]

My boat is carbed and no significant issues. There are a few noticable differences and depending on how you view them, they may or may not be of any concern. To start, many carbed boats require priming, simply three shots on the throttle and presto, ready to go. My particular choke does not hold a good calibration between 45 degrees F and 85 degrees F, so I have to adjust the dial (changes the tension on the bimetallic spring) twice a year (when it warms up and then back to the colder setting). Not a big deal at all. That pretty much covers the major difference you will see, start up sequence. The choke on the carb can also cause more black smoke during warm up for a carbed boat v. injected, again cured by an adjustment. You will most likely need to do a bit more maintenance, but not much. A sporatic carb rebuild and cleaning is all that is required, keep a good water separator installed and make sure you drain out any ethanol added fuel for storage as it can leave debris in the bowls. You will have fewer electronic gremlins to chase down, no IAC, no ECU so that simplifies matters and no injectors to clog. Carb rebuilds and clean ups are cheap and a breeze, just a bit of time. From a pure performance standpoint, a carb gives up nothing (assuming in good health), it will have plenty of air flow and plenty of response to throttle position changes. A carb is also very tuneable, you can adjust the fuel curve to your liking. Parts are readily available for either the Holley or Weber (Carter AFB) carb in this application. Altitude will not affect a carbed engine any different than an injected engine, but you won't have to worry at 900 feet anyway. Altitude is simply a loss of air density so performance drops as you go up for either, a jetting change will adjust the mixture right back to where it needs to be.

A boat does not really operate in a transitional mode like a car where you are constantly adjusting or changing speed, so the injected benefits in this operating regime are not very important. The other area that injected engines benefit would be in a bumpy or high lateral load condition where you would slosh fuel out of the fuel bowls, and if you are doing that with a tourney ski boat, you have much bigger worries than if you boat is carbureted.

So, IMO, don't worry about a carb being a deterrent to purchasing a boat, other factors should be a higher priority. Not sure what your choice of disciplines are, but any of the SV23 hulls ski exceptionally well and the original SV23 hull is a great barefoot hull. The changes are a slight chine increase on the Diamond, which is a good but very subtle change. You would have to try it to see if you can tell the difference. On these boats, half a tank of gas or removing the rear seat will make more difference to the wake than some of the hull changes do. Good luck and happy hunting!

[DONTW8]

As I have said before I regularly tow, drive, and ski behind 4 different boats. One of my buddies has a 1991 Sunsetter that we use a lot. When we have more than our regular crew of 3 it gets called into service. We pile 6 of us in my xtracab Duramax with canopy and take the old Sunsetter. It definitely is the boat that has the least care. It has the 265 ? hp carb engine and it works fine. Rich has owned it since new and it just gets the minimum. Dennis and I will do the little repairs to the boat and trailer because we are boat geeks. Little things like repairing the swim deck, cleaning the pitots, pumping up the trailer tires, etc. He does get it winterized at the local correct craft dealer who is nearby.

The boat runs fine. It has had a catch in the steering cable for the last five years, the decals are peeling off of the dash, it only gets cleaned when it is at my house where we congregate to go the 43 miles to Lake Billy Chinook.

Rick is not a handyman kind of guy. He is a pretty good adult athlete and always is well dressed. He wears the Polo shirts and trunks, high dollar shades, and will wear a sport coat / dry clean slacks in situations where the rest of us will be wearing a dress shirt and cotton khakis. He has his priorities and boat maintenance is not one of them. I on the other hand " buy my dress shirts the same place I buy my car batteries" (Costco). Thats the great line from Chris Cooper to Jamie Foxx in The Kingdom.

Anyway that boat runs fine. I drive it several hours a year and no major problems.

[Slayer]

Thanks for the info woodski and dontw8. I appreciate it. Miboarder.....it is a bummer. The boat was in pristine shape. I was caller 2 and it was sold to the first guy who saw it. I think he got a really good buy. Boat looked like it was just off the showroom floor.

[Slayer]

I have stumbled upon a nice used '98 response lx. It's not far from me locally by has 800 hours. What are the thoughts on high hours used boats? Is this something that I should shy away from considering I want to keep the boat for 8-10 years?

[Michigan boarder]

I have stumbled upon a nice used '98 response lx. It's not far from me locally by has 800 hours. What are the thoughts on high hours used boats? Is this something that I should shy away from considering I want to keep the boat for 8-10 years?

I wouldn't let that concern me one single bit. All depends on the seller and how well they have cared for the boat. If they have detailed records dating way back and you can eat off that thing, then you know what you are getting. You can find the same boat with 400 hours, a dirty interior and no service records, then that is the boat to stay away from. 800 hours is not a deal breaker by any means. In fact, neigther is 1000, or 1200, as long as the seller has taken care of it.

[Woodski]

800 hours is actually only about 62 per year, really not very much. That is actually about the average use for a slalom boat in the Michigan area so you can get a pretty good idea of how many hours you would add in 8-10 years of use. There should be plenty of life left in the small block, I have over 800 on mine and I did a compression check as I put it away and all were 180 psi, so assuming nothing bad happened, I would not be concerned. Many of the schools have over 1500 on them. To ease you mind, do a compression check , but for more accuracy, do a leak down test. A simple way to see if there have been any temperature events would be to check over the condition of the paint, particularly on the exhaust manifolds, if they look good (even better if all original) that is a good sign. There will be certain items that wear out due to time like the steering cable (if stiff a good indicator), rudder bushings, prop shaft packing and maybe steering gear and throttle bushings. All pretty easy to service and repair and return the boat to like new status. Given the performance of the SV23 hull of that era, nobody should be reluctant to ski behind it.

[Slayer]

Thanks Michigan boarder and Woodski. Your comments are confirmation of what I was thinking. This particular boat was only used on a private ski lake in OH. That makes me think it was well taken care of. I'm going to contact the seller and discuss it further with them and try to get down to see it. It's about 3-3.5 hours from home for me but it appears, from photos, to be in good condition and it's priced right.

Thanks again.

[Slayer]

Talked to the seller and received some additional photos of the boat. It shows what I would think would be typical wear and tear for a 12 year old boat. There are some splitting seams in the observer seat and some cracking vinyl in the seat back of the rear seat. There is a little staining in the carpet and scratches on the transom from skis. The water pump has been replaced with a brass pump housing but otherwise engine looks decent. One thing worthy of note is that it appears as though the shroud below the spark arrestor is missing. It's the 320 HP Monsoon engine. Otherwise, from the photos, there seems to be no sign of overheating. It is a one owner boat and most maintenance has been done by the owner. Shaft seal packing was replaced annually, steering cable has been replaced once, and is likely in need of replacement again. None of the bushings have been replaced. The boat has an accu-ski which, according to the owner, does not work properly. The hull looks really good other than the minor transom scratches that can be seen in the pictures. The cover is in like new condition and the bimini top is in decent condition. Boat was hoist kept on a private ski lake and kept in a heated garage in the winter. The transom decals are missing. The trailer is in good shape and has been rarely used.

So, here's the question....what's the boat worth? Seems to me at a minimum it would need some elbow grease to clean it up a bit, a steering cable, and shaft seal packing. I can find out what's involved there by more searching here on the site. Skins may be in need of replacement and I don't know what that's worth. I know that Chee (sp?) can make them, but I don't have a feel for cost.

What do you guys think? Seller is asking $12,800. I think $10k.

[Woodski]

That is actually a pretty good price, I have seen older boats in "average" condition go for more. The observers seat split is very common, that is a $150 fix for both material and installation, not sure on what the back seat would run. Chee will give you a good quote for upholstry cost. The Monsoon is the uplevel engine for that boat and works great. Accuski is out of business so parts might be a challenge to get, but I have seen them on Ski-ti-Again. Accuski is actually an excellent speed control system, well liked by anybody that uses it, I have one on my boat and it works fine, very simple system. You might try to find out what he means by the comment, it could simply be a calibration problem (simple) to a fried control module (bummer).

[Slayer]

Thanks, woodski. I would like to try to talk the guy down a bit considering the required new steering cable. I understand that cost is nominal but I understand that they guy is eager to move the boat as he has a new one on order that is expected to be delivered soon. I'm going to continue dialog with him and see where it goes.

I'm also still planning on looking at the sunsetter lx that is linked above. I have had considerable dialogue with that seller. The boat is in better condition than this response however it's got more hull cosmetic issues than the response but less interior wear. It's also much closer to me but the decision is likely going to be financial in the end.

There is no speed control on the sunsetter either but it also has 200 hours or so less in use and he may work a combo deal with his lift. That is also attractive. I need to show the pictures to the boss (wife) because she is the one driving the cost down. The course on our lake is only up from Sunday evening to Friday evenings and once I'm back into skiing shape and strong enough to run the course, I'll only be able to do so maybe twice weekly so the speed control may not be much of a factor in the short term.

Edited March 15, 2011 by inlandlaker

[Woodski]

Based on your comment about skiing the course, I would be heavily leaning towards the Response or more specifically a Response over a Sunsetter. If skiing is your primary purpose for the boat, personally I would steer away from a compromise boat and go for the performance (wake in this case). The Response made the AWSA list for pulling tournaments, the Sunsetter did not. The reason is wake quality along with the fact that a slightly smaller boat will navigate through the course easier. Another item, assuming the CFO will drive you, speed control will make both of you much happier! That will take one item off the list of worries going through the gates while you are doing your best to pull her off course. Course driving is not a trivial activity, it takes a lot of concentration and a good course driver makes a huge difference to how happy the person attached to the handle is.

[Michigan boarder]

I agree with the speed control. If you can get it, get it. Adding it later is expensive. I hope to add it to mine next summer, and I don't even ski a course. Wife pulls me 99.9% of the time and does a great job, but it will make it much easier for her, and more enjoyable for me.

[catcando]

Wife pulls me 99.9% of the time and does a great job, but it will make it much easier for her, and more enjoyable for me.

We joke about it being a marriage saver! It was one of the best upgrades we've ever purchased for boating!

[Slayer]

I would prefer a Response LX in all honesty. The only consideration on the sunsetter is the additional room. But in discussions with the "CFO", we have agreed that there really is no need for all the additional space of a sunsetter considering we can always take both the ski boat and the pontoon out allowing for guests to get a pull.

Related to speed control, I agree with all comments. I was really hoping to find a boat with perfect pass, but we'll see what's available. To be totally honest, the wife will likely not drag me through the course. That is more likely to be done by one of the other ski club members on the lake. At least it will be this way until she is trained. As I mentioned in previous posts, it's been 20+ years since I have done any water skiing, so it's going to take a while to learn all that has been forgotten and while I learn, she can learn to drive. Once she is comfortable, she can pull me on the weekends for the early morning run. During the week though, I will likely get a pull from someone else.

[Slayer]

If I had some balls, I'd bid on this. I have a hard time taking that type of risk when the boat is on the west coast and I'm in SE Michigan.

[NorCaliBu]

If I had some balls, I'd bid on this. I have a hard time taking that type of risk when the boat is on the west coast and I'm in SE Michigan.

If the auction didn't end in less than 24 hours (kind of short notice) I would say that a crew member from the SF Bay area would probably be willing to check it out for you. Lafayette is right near Concord, Walnut Creek, Danville,.... Maybe contact the owner and see what his plans are when the auction ends and the reserve is not met...

[85 Barefoot]

If I had some balls, I'd bid on this. I have a hard time taking that type of risk when the boat is on the west coast and I'm in SE Michigan.

First year of the diamond...last i checked price was like ten k....whonknows what reserve is but sounds great!

[Slayer]

If the auction didn't end in less than 24 hours (kind of short notice) I would say that a crew member from the SF Bay area would probably be willing to check it out for you. Lafayette is right near Concord, Walnut Creek, Danville,.... Maybe contact the owner and see what his plans are when the auction ends and the reserve is not met...

I thought about that. Being kind of new around here I wasn't really sure if asking for that type of assistance was appropriate. I will contact the owner today.

"First year of the diamond...last i checked price was like ten k....who knows what reserve is but sounds great!"

Price is still less than $11k.

Edited March 16, 2011 by inlandlaker

[Woodski]

I would prefer a Response LX in all honesty. The only consideration on the sunsetter is the additional room. But in discussions with the "CFO", we have agreed that there really is no need for all the additional space of a sunsetter considering we can always take both the ski boat and the pontoon out allowing for guests to get a pull.

Related to speed control, I agree with all comments. I was really hoping to find a boat with perfect pass, but we'll see what's available. To be totally honest, the wife will likely not drag me through the course. That is more likely to be done by one of the other ski club members on the lake. At least it will be this way until she is trained. As I mentioned in previous posts, it's been 20+ years since I have done any water skiing, so it's going to take a while to learn all that has been forgotten and while I learn, she can learn to drive. Once she is comfortable, she can pull me on the weekends for the early morning run. During the week though, I will likely get a pull from someone else.

The pontoon makes the perfect dock/storage/mooring/social vehicle for the Response. I would certainly start working the CFO early on her driving training, you will be surprised at how much you will actually want her to pull you. Skiing the course is pretty much like any recreational drug, very addicting and always leaving you wanting more or with the attitude that one more time and I will make that pass. Making a difficult pass is very rewarding and satisfying along with an excellent work out. We have pretty much the same set up you are describing with several tourney boats on lifts with a few of us addicted skiers. It is pretty amazing how many times during the season that the various CFO's are "put in to service" pulling the first mate! From your lift you will be able to get that one quick run in just before dark, just before work, right before/after that thunderstorm that left the lake glass smooth. Don't overlook that opportunity to spend quality time with her and certainly offer to get her just as hooked on the sport, it has happened on this particular lake and makes the time on the water that much more rewarding.

[Michigan boarder]

The pontoon makes the perfect dock/storage/mooring/social vehicle for the Response. I would certainly start working the CFO early on her driving training, you will be surprised at how much you will actually want her to pull you. Skiing the course is pretty much like any recreational drug, very addicting and always leaving you wanting more or with the attitude that one more time and I will make that pass. Making a difficult pass is very rewarding and satisfying along with an excellent work out. We have pretty much the same set up you are describing with several tourney boats on lifts with a few of us addicted skiers. It is pretty amazing how many times during the season that the various CFO's are "put in to service" pulling the first mate! From your lift you will be able to get that one quick run in just before dark, just before work, right before/after that thunderstorm that left the lake glass smooth. Don't overlook that opportunity to spend quality time with her and certainly offer to get her just as hooked on the sport, it has happened on this particular lake and makes the time on the water that much more rewarding.

Ditto all that 100%. Definitely do the Response. Or an Echelon, same thing. Sprawl out on the pontoon.

We've had some great experiences where I wake her up at sunrise, have a latte mocha ready for her, boat idling, go for a quick pull on pure glass, then putt around for 20 minutes sipping coffee and feeling the sun coming up over the trees on our faces. That is a great start to a Saturday or Sunday.

[Slayer]

Woodski & Michigan boarder:

You both bring up great points. I also agree that being able to get the boat warmed up, get the kid ready and brew up a latte for the wife is a great idea for a morning ski. Now.....if only I can convert the CFO to a morning person.........need to start working on that.

[Michigan boarder]

Woodski & Michigan boarder:

You both bring up great points. I also agree that being able to get the boat warmed up, get the kid ready and brew up a latte for the wife is a great idea for a morning ski. Now.....if only I can convert the CFO to a morning person.........need to start working on that.

Another method I have used is blaring Bush "Breathe in breathe out" and straddling her with the whole "Get up, it's Saturday!! Today is the day you barefoot!!". But you gotta wait until at least 8am to take that approach.

[SunriseH2OSkier]

Another method I have used is blaring Bush "Breathe in breathe out" and straddling her with the whole "Get up, it's Saturday!! Today is the day you barefoot!!". But you gotta wait until at least 8am to take that approach.

If I tried that, my wife would go all 'Lorena Bobbitt' on my arse, er, balls...

[Slayer]

If I tried that, my wife would go all 'Lorena Bobbitt' on my arse, er, balls...

I was thinking the same thing......funny though.

[Slayer]

I should have bid on the RLX on ebay. I don't know if the seller's reserve was met, but the last bid was $12,100.