Underwater LED's

[martinarcher]

I have that idea also. Just waiting until I can get the lights in the water. Probably next Tuesday or so. I didn't want there to be much overlap of the light beam in the middle. From the pictures it doesn't look there will be much overlap with the width of the mounting locations. Will know more then.

Here is my thinking on the mounting block to angle the lights back up the 10 degrees that the transom angles back. Again, Shadow Caster tells me this will not matter with the lens they have on the light. We'll see. On these drawings you can see the angle correction and the curve on the boat side of the mount. The light will recess into the mount 1/16". It will be easy to set the angle outwards on this design before machining if needed.

I like how you roll Ronnie. I would be doing the same thing to make it right.

[arrydjay]

Hmm sounds like a lot of work, do you think it would make much difference compared to just mounting them straight on the transom? Martin thanks for the compliment it's a great spot, but it's a 4 knot no wake zone so unfortunatelly no boarding...LED's and tunes however are another story, it's a great place to party.

[martinarcher]

Hmm sounds like a lot of work, do you think it would make much difference compared to just mounting them straight on the transom? Martin thanks for the compliment it's a great spot, but it's a 4 knot no wake zone so unfortunatelly no boarding...LED's and tunes however are another story, it's a great place to party.

I was there at night the night before I flew home and I agree - it would be a great place to cruise with some LED and tunes.

Do you guys board out in the bay?

I would just wait until Ronnie get's his Shadow Casters tested. If he doesn't think the angle makes much difference with their lens I would mount them flat on the transom. On the other hand, if it makes a difference in light output, after spending that kind of coin it would be worth making a little shim mount like Ronnie is working on if it gets more light out from behind the boat.

[arrydjay]

Ok, it has come down to either the shadowcasters in bimini blue, or the abyss S1560 RGB's

I wouldnt mind having the ability to change colours, but not if it is going to cost me too much brightness.....any one tried them or have any ideas???

[Ronnie]

[Earmark Marine]

Like the ShadowCasters we are very pro Abyss. Keep in mind that the Abyss 1560 is 5.75" O.D. and round. That is the key determining factor for your transom.

David

Earmark Marine

[martinarcher]

Like the ShadowCasters we are very pro Abyss. Keep in mind that the Abyss 1560 is 5.75" O.D. and round. That is the key determining factor for your transom.

David

Earmark Marine

Those look sweet. Are they true RGB LED's or are there several solid color LED's in there that they are controlling separately?

[arrydjay]

So would anyone know if the abyss lights would fit on a current vlx with powerwedge?

[Earmark Marine]

martinarcher,

To be certain I will verify this Monday. The fact that the light output is similar to the 1515 which has the identical number of LEDs, I have to assume that they are RGB LEDs rather than a mix of varoius color LEDs. Btw, the 1515 is stupid bright. If you look at it directly out of the water it will ruin your day. I did this with the smaller 800 model and had an instant headache for the day not to mention a burned image in my vision for a while.

arrydjay,

Ronnie is probably going to be the best source (since he has a current project) as to whether or not you have that type of height available. I'm most concerned about that amount of 'flat' vertical space. The rectangular dimensions of the ShadowCaster (having minimal height) would seem to be an easier fit.

David

Earmark Marine

[Ronnie]

The fit on the transom is not bad vertically, the difficult part is horizontally. The transom curves horizontally 1/8" across the 10" span of the Shadow Caster lights.

Shadow Caster says on their site;

Rugged design - 316 Stainless Steel and polycarbonate housing designed by engineers with years of experience in military product design. Shock and vibration resistant for operation at any speed. Stainless steel bezel prevents any damage to the light during installation. The light can actually flex to conform to up to 3/16" hull curvature over the length of the light.

That means it will flex to that much curve. I personally don't like that and will mount them flat with the mounting spacer to fit the light/transom. The factory LED's are mounted horizontally. I'm not sure how wide they are (can someone measure theirs) but I would be surprised if they were much longer than the diameter on the Abyss you are looking at. I just don't see anywhere that it says you can pull the Abyss lights down tight on a curve.

I finished the temporary light rig for the dock/lake test tonight. I'll get the lights in the lake in a couple of days.

Edit: The 1/8" curve is on MY boat, I do not know what the curve is on your's.

[Earmark Marine]

Looking at the back of an Abyss it looks like a casting rather than an extrusion so I can't imagine that it is flexible. I'm concerned that flexing it (if there was a bit of tolerance) could also break the lens seal. I will verify this also. The 9 led OEM product should be under but approaching the 5.75" width. Its good to know the height is not an issue.

David

Earmark Marine

[Ronnie]

Looking at the back of an Abyss it looks like a casting rather than an extrusion so I can't imagine that it is flexible. I'm concerned that flexing it (if there was a bit of tolerance) could also break the lens seal. I will verify this also. The 9 led OEM product should be under but approaching the 5.75" width. Its good to know the height is not an issue.

David

Earmark Marine

Let me re-check this vertical measurement tomorrow in the light. I wasn't too concerned about the curve in that direction across 5+ inches since my lights are not near that tall.

[Living the Dream]

The fit on the transom is not bad vertically, the difficult part is horizontally. The transom curves horizontally 1/8" across the 10" span of the Shadow Caster lights.

Shadow Caster says on their site;

Rugged design - 316 Stainless Steel and polycarbonate housing designed by engineers with years of experience in military product design. Shock and vibration resistant for operation at any speed. Stainless steel bezel prevents any damage to the light during installation. The light can actually flex to conform to up to 3/16" hull curvature over the length of the light.

That means it will flex to that much curve. I personally don't like that and will mount them flat with the mounting spacer to fit the light/transom. The factory LED's are mounted horizontally. I'm not sure how wide they are (can someone measure theirs) but I would be surprised if they were much longer than the diameter on the Abyss you are looking at. I just don't see anywhere that it says you can pull the Abyss lights down tight on a curve.

I finished the temporary light rig for the dock/lake test tonight. I'll get the lights in the lake in a couple of days.

Edit: The 1/8" curve is on MY boat, I do not know what the curve is on your's.

According to the link they are 5 3/4 long http://bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=1301

[martinarcher]

martinarcher,

To be certain I will verify this Monday. The fact that the light output is similar to the 1515 which has the identical number of LEDs, I have to assume that they are RGB LEDs rather than a mix of varoius color LEDs. Btw, the 1515 is stupid bright. If you look at it directly out of the water it will ruin your day. I did this with the smaller 800 model and had an instant headache for the day not to mention a burned image in my vision for a while.

arrydjay,

Ronnie is probably going to be the best source (since he has a current project) as to whether or not you have that type of height available. I'm most concerned about that amount of 'flat' vertical space. The rectangular dimensions of the ShadowCaster (having minimal height) would seem to be an easier fit.

David

Earmark Marine

Cool. Thanks David.

[arrydjay]

I emailed Abyss and asked them if by going for the 1560 colour change model you would loose much brightness compared to the standard 1515 and this was their reply:

"Hi there,

yes 1560 isnt as bright as 1515....if you have crystal clear waters its fine....otherwise stay with 1515..in white is the strongest.."

Looks like the Shadowcasters might be the way to go, as I dont have crystal clear waters all the time....

[Earmark Marine]

Here is the scope on several fronts concerning the Abyss.

The cast brass housing is not going to conform to a radiused surface not to mention the inflexible polycarbonate lens. This only makes sense. There is a protruding 1/2-inch diameter cup at the center of the backside of the fixture that must make contact with the transom since this bowl of sorts serves to hold the poly caulk and create a permanent seal. If you have either a positive vertical or horizontal radius then this is not a problem. Nylon shims (not a dissimilar metal like S.S.) will balance the fixture at the perimeter mounting holes. This easy solution is of little value if the radius is negative. In this case you will need a formed polymer contour block. The larger Abyss underwater fixtures are elevated off the mounting surface anyway to provide a water passageway for extra cooling.

The Abyss website is temporarily incorrect in that the 1515 and 1560 do not have the same lumen output. All high power RGBs are going to be 20 to 25 percent less output than a fixed unit of the same color. When two elements in the same RGB unit are both fed voltage in order to get a color mix then this must be managed so that the collective voltage does not exceed the units total thermal capacity. Therefore this required limiting affect will impact the brightness of any single isolated color as in red, green and blue, etc. So with a reduction in brightness the RGBs are not recommended unless you are in clear waters.

The Abyss 1560 uses a quantity of 15 true 3 in 1 individual RGBs rather 5 red+5 green+5 blue.

David

Earmark Marine

[Ronnie]

David, Good info on the RGB's. 20-25% less light is a lot if you are trying to puch the light beam through this cloudy water we have here.

FWIW, I did put a contour gauge on the area between the platform brackets and the exhaust outlet and it's flat in the vertical direction on my boat. You need to be careful in that area if you are mounting anything thru-hull there as the stringers are in that area on the inside. Check twice, drill once.

BTW...I didn't notice any gaskets between the lights and the aluminum bracket that Grant built on his instal that I linked to. I wonder if he is going to have issues with that? Shadow Caster does sell gaskets to instal in between the light and a dissimilar metal like aluminum. Shadow Caster tells me they use them on aluminum fishing boats where they use the lights to attract fish/bait.

[martinarcher]

Thanks for the info fellas. I figured they were the true RGB emitters (3 colors in 1 element). I agree - a solid color is the way to fly to get the brightest output for the kind of water we have here in PA. I wish I had some of that super clear water I see in the surfing pics out west!

[arrydjay]

I emailed lumishore about a week ago and their rep called me today, they require a 25mm hole in the transom and the light threads into that. The light itself is a 125mm diameter circle....it was all sounding ok untill he told me the price....$7500 for two colour changing lights!!! They use 60 led's which are a mix of red, green and blue...

What were they smoking when they came up with that price?? I would love to see them compared to the shadowcasters and abyss lights.

[arrydjay]

Checkout this video....how good would water like this be...makes me want white LED's

[Ronnie]

Yep, that water is pretty clear. It would be fun to see what is in the water but I'm not sure people would go in if they saw some of that!!

[martinarcher]

Cool vid. You'd have to add a couple batteries to run 5 of those HID underwater lights! Cool thing is you get an open water aquarium for your investment. I am so jealous of that water.

Ronnie...those Shadow Casters look awesome! Can't wait to see them on the Bu!

Edited January 18, 2011 by martinarcher

[Ronnie]

I put the lights in the lake tonight. As Shadow Caster says the angle doesn't matter until it's a pretty severe angle. The diffusion is really good. I was worried about the wedge blocking the light and I don't think it will. The light beams, at the width I am mounting them, don't cross each other until it's a ways out there. Angling to the outboard isn't needed either. I think I will still cut the mounting block to allow the lights to shine straight back. When the boat is in motion, the light will angle down more so being level will just help that situation.

The light in our lake is a little disappointing. The light doesn't shine as far as I would like. I'm afraid with a light thats not as bright as these, they would be useless in our water.

[martinarcher]

Sweet! They certainly look bright. I hear you on water. It's a bummer how fast murky water kills light output. I'll have to dig up the pics for the 9 LED Malibu lights I had on the Skier. They shined pretty good for our water. If I remember right I took the pics with a cell phone.

[Ronnie]

Yeah, I bet the white lights would penetrate this water better but I didn't want the green tint this water would make out of the white light. Our water clears a bit in the summer so they will be better. I'm not disappointed enough to change my mind about installing them.

I'll start working on the mounting blocks tomorrow. David has inspired me to do them the "Old Fashioned Way". I may try them on some wood working tools before I go the Cad machining route, just for the enjoyment of it.