Storing batteries on Concrete

[aneal000]

...at least until it's recharged again.

[Gordo]

The only reason I can think of to take out your battery is to keep it from getting too cold - something we do not have to worry about here Just disconnecting it (unless you have a master off battery switch) to prevent something draining it - like a clock - would be fine. Charging it before (and after) storage is good advice too.

[brazosvet]

Storing a battery on a concrete floor WILL discharge it. Without a doubt. Everyone looks at this in the situation of an ideal world, and therefore doesn't see why it happens, but here is the reason. A battery is made up of lead and liquid which has enormous heat sink capabilities. When the temp. drops on the floor of the garage, slight condensation forms on the sides of the case ( as well as on the floor of the garage under the case) allowing current to flow from the two poles of the battery and shorting-out or discharging the cell. This condensation mostly goes un-noticed because it quickly evaporates as the garage warms-up. If the battery is real clean, or new, the chance that this will happen is reduced, however, on an older battery with mild leakage, acid, dirt, grease, ect., increases the conductivity on the outside of the case and will facilitate discharging under high moisture conditions. Once the cell has been fully discharged, it is very difficult to charge it up again. By placing the battery on a piece of wood, you eliminate the ability of the current to transmit to the ground by getting it up out of the condensation. Always clean the top of the case with baking soda before storage to reduce or neutralize the acid on the case to improve storage life.

Dry cell battery? I don't know if it is as affected by this. I've always suspected that the acid on the outside of the case was more to blame for this process, so a dry cell battery may not have the same problem.

Edited for misspilengs.

Edited November 2, 2005 by brazosvet

[SacRiverRat]

don't forget about the garage elves using the batteries during the night too... I just won't risk it - I keep my batteries in the boat!

[Slurpee]

Storing a battery on a concrete floor WILL discharge it.  Without a doubt.  Everyone looks at this in the situation of an ideal world, and therefore doesn't see why it happens, but here is the reason.  A battery is made up of lead and liquid which has enormous heat sink capabilities.  When the temp. drops on the floor of the garage, slight condensation forms on the sides of the case ( as well as on the floor of the garage under the case) allowing current to flow from the two poles of the battery and shorting-out or discharging the cell.  This condensation mostly goes un-noticed because it quickly evaporates as the garage warms-up.  If the battery is real clean, or new, the chance that this will happen is reduced, however, on an older battery with mild leakage, acid, dirt, grease, ect.,  increases the conductivity on the outside of the case and will facilitate discharging under high moisture conditions.  Once the cell has been fully discharged, it is very difficult to charge it up again.  By placing the battery on a piece of wood, you eliminate the ability of the current to transmit to the ground by getting it up out of the condensation.  Always clean the top of the case with baking soda before storage to reduce or neutralize the acid on the case to improve storage life.

Dry cell battery?  I don't know if it is as affected by this.  I've always suspected that the acid on the outside of the case was more to blame for this process, so a dry cell battery may not have the same problem.

Edited for misspilengs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This whole thread makes me laugh. If your battery is soooo dirty that it has excessive self-discharge due to a circuit being completed by gunk and dew on the outside of your enclosure you have a LOT bigger problems than this old wives tale.

1) Keep your batteries clean before storing them.

2) Only a circuit completed between + to - will discharge a battery. A connection of either or both to concrete won't do it at 12V unless you connect them together through a electrolyte or conductive path

3) Battery output is decreased at low temps. Leave it on the floor in the garage in winter and in the morning your 100% charge will only deliver maybe 20% capacity compared to in the summer. It takes more work to move the chemistry when it's cold so less capacity.

For some reason I'm in the mood to go watch mythbusters.

Edited November 3, 2005 by Slurpee

[Pistol Pete]

When I was in car tech school I remember the teacher saying that it is true about discharging when a batt. is stored on concrete. I couldn't remember why until I read what brazosvet said. I believe it is true.

And now, I'm going to the garage to take my two motorcycle batts. off the floor and put some wood under them.

[VinRLX]

There is no reason to take the battery off the boat at all except for ease of charging.  I leave mine on the boat and just give it an occasional charge with no problems at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what I'm trying to find out. I'm getting tired of lugging them. I replace them afer 4 seasons anyway. They're still good when I buy a new one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You should not have to take your batterys out. Just put the battery on a trickel charger for a day once a month or so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Greg, does it freeze where you are? I mean really freeze, like -30°?

88, if the battery has no means of discharge and remains charged, it will not freeze. If it is weak, does not hold a charge, or discharges, then it can freeze. How does the idea of finding a cracked battery in the boat next Spring strike you? Lug it out old man.

And the concrete thing has been debunked by a number of sources. Why mine sit on wood blocks just isn't rational.

[brazosvet]

Go watch myth busters. Set your batteries on the concrete over the winter also. I'll set mine on blocks.

Storing a battery on a concrete floor WILL discharge it.  Without a doubt.  Everyone looks at this in the situation of an ideal world, and therefore doesn't see why it happens, but here is the reason.  A battery is made up of lead and liquid which has enormous heat sink capabilities.  When the temp. drops on the floor of the garage, slight condensation forms on the sides of the case ( as well as on the floor of the garage under the case) allowing current to flow from the two poles of the battery and shorting-out or discharging the cell.  This condensation mostly goes un-noticed because it quickly evaporates as the garage warms-up.  If the battery is real clean, or new, the chance that this will happen is reduced, however, on an older battery with mild leakage, acid, dirt, grease, ect.,  increases the conductivity on the outside of the case and will facilitate discharging under high moisture conditions.  Once the cell has been fully discharged, it is very difficult to charge it up again.  By placing the battery on a piece of wood, you eliminate the ability of the current to transmit to the ground by getting it up out of the condensation.  Always clean the top of the case with baking soda before storage to reduce or neutralize the acid on the case to improve storage life.

Dry cell battery?  I don't know if it is as affected by this.  I've always suspected that the acid on the outside of the case was more to blame for this process, so a dry cell battery may not have the same problem.

Edited for misspilengs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This whole thread makes me laugh. If your battery is soooo dirty that it has excessive self-discharge due to a circuit being completed by gunk and dew on the outside of your enclosure you have a LOT bigger problems than this old wives tale. "

1) Keep your batteries clean before storing them.

2) Only a circuit completed between + to - will discharge a battery. A connection of either or both to concrete won't do it at 12V unless you connect them together through a electrolyte or conductive path.

3) Battery output is decreased at low temps. Leave it on the floor in the garage in winter and in the morning your 100% charge will only deliver maybe 20% capacity compared to in the summer. It takes more work to move the chemistry when it's cold so less capacity.

For some reason I'm in the mood to go watch mythbusters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The battery does not have to be excessively dirty to do this. Have you ever seen the light switches that turn lamps on and off by touching the lamp and not the switch. They are not excessively dirty. They work by reacting with the electrical fields around the lamp.

That is my point. The moisture acts as a conduit to connect the positive and negative terminals.

Even if I am wrong, I have never been able to keep batteries on the floor for more than a week or so without them going bad. Just unlucky I guess.

Edited November 3, 2005 by brazosvet

[D-GOOSE]

Greg, does it freeze where you are? I mean really freeze, like -30°?

88, if the battery has no means of discharge and remains charged, it will not freeze. If it is weak, does not hold a charge, or discharges, then it can freeze. How does the idea of finding a cracked battery in the boat next Spring strike you? Lug it out old man.

And the concrete thing has been debunked by a number of sources. Why mine sit on wood blocks just isn't rational.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Come on you know I live in CA. BUT I grew up Mich and yes it gets cold. and have never had a battery crack. What do you think happens to a car that sits at the airport for a week when you on a business trip? I'm not sure about the battery being discharged and then cracking You may be onto some thing.

[brazosvet]

Article 1

See paragraph 2, last sentence.

"provided the top of the battery is clean and free from wet or dried electrolyte and the same temperature as the floor."

[SunriseH2OSkier]

When I had my '78 Ski Supreme, I always winterized it myself, and always pulled the battery and stored it in my basement (don't remember putting anything between it and the cement floor). I think I was on my third battery when I sold it after about 7 years.

Then when I bought my '01 Sunsetter, I paid the dealer to winterize it the first three years (wanted to make sure my warranty was protected). Not only did they not pull the battery before they shrink-wrapped it, but they didn't even disconnect the cables. And it fired right up all three years at the start of the season without so much as a minute on a charger. Two years after selling it to a buddy, he's still going strong on that same battery.

Now with my RLXi I do my own winterization, the boat sits in my garage (not shrink-wrapped), and I've been leaving the battery in and connected. (Makes it easier to listen to some tunes when I'm sitting in the boat in the dead of winter, sucking down a beer, longing for Spring ). Same experience at the start of both summers so far - fires strong without having charged the battery at all.

Not sure I've ever seen -30 degF here in SE Michigan like Jack's talking. We may get the occasional cold snap for a week straight where temps are between -10 and +10. But generally we are in the teens and 20's most of the winter.

[Baddog]

You want to see cold?

Spend the right week in Vermont or other environs nearby. When I was in High School (just a few years ago, or so) I went on a ski vacation with my Uncle to Killington. It was -30F during the day and we skiied anyway (that's another thread someday). That night it was forcast to go below - A-Well-Digger's-A$$ F and my uncle took the battery out of the car over night so it would start in the morning -- and it was the only one that did.

A few years later I was on a ski trip in the UP of Michigan with friends and it got to be - Too-Friggin'-Cold F. I remebered what my uncle had done in VT and promptly had another beer instead of removing the battery. Next morning -- not even close to making a sound let alone starting. Had to wait 3 hours for a tow truck to come and put a tent around the engine compartment and fire off a propane heater to get that baby to roar (sputter actually).

Cold is not a good thing to mix with lead and electrolyte.

[88Skier]

There is no reason to take the battery off the boat at all except for ease of charging.  I leave mine on the boat and just give it an occasional charge with no problems at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what I'm trying to find out. I'm getting tired of lugging them. I replace them afer 4 seasons anyway. They're still good when I buy a new one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You should not have to take your batterys out. Just put the battery on a trickel charger for a day once a month or so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Greg, does it freeze where you are? I mean really freeze, like -30°?

88, if the battery has no means of discharge and remains charged, it will not freeze. If it is weak, does not hold a charge, or discharges, then it can freeze. How does the idea of finding a cracked battery in the boat next Spring strike you? Lug it out old man.

You just killed my experiment.

For some reason, Vermont is the coldest place in New England. Their snow's the best.

[mrothwell]

You want to see cold?

Spend the right week in Vermont or other environs nearby.  When I was in High School (just a few years ago, or so) I went on a ski vacation with my Uncle to Killington.  It was -30F during the day and we skiied anyway (that's another thread someday).  That night it was forcast to go below - A-Well-Digger's-A$$ F and my uncle took the battery out of the car over night so it would start in the morning  --  and it was the only one that did.

A few years later I was on a ski trip in the UP of Michigan with friends and it got to be - Too-Friggin'-Cold F.  I remebered what my uncle had done in VT and promptly had another beer instead of removing the battery.  Next morning  --  not even close to making a sound let alone starting.  Had to wait 3 hours for a tow truck to come and put a tent around the engine compartment and fire off a propane heater to get that baby to roar (sputter actually).

Cold is not a good thing to mix with lead and electrolyte.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I grew up in an area that I remember 40 below temps for 2 weeks straight, there are a few tricks. Turn your head lights on for a few minutes before starting the car. This will warm the battery up enough to turn over the car.

However, if you are visiting from a warmer climate, be very careful starting a car in that low of temps, oil does not flow very well for the first several seconds.

[SacRiverRat]

However, if you are visiting from a warmer climate, be very careful starting a car in that low of temps, oil does not flow very well for the first several seconds.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In that case you have to gun it right away to help it warm up faster right?!?

[skistud1]

I would surmise that the real reason that you should not place a battery on concrete is that it is simply cold and subsequently brings the temp of battery down lowering its charge. If you were to place steel plating on the concrete and set the battery on the steel, the result would be the same, the cold temp from the floor would bring the temp of the battery down.

My when I winterized my motorcycle (motorcycle batteries are notorious for going DOA) and boat, I leave them right where they are at. I hook up a trickle charger and walk away. I have three, http://batterytender.com/images/Battery_Tender_Plus.jpe never a problem. I don't even disconnect the batteries.

[NorCaliBu]

In that case you have to gun it right away to help it warm up faster right?!? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

. . . . . . . . . .

[Henken]

don't forget about the garage elves using the batteries during the night too... I just won't risk it - I keep my batteries in the boat!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This must be where all my tools are going and why my beer fridge is always low

[Lakenut]

What do you guys w/optimas do for winter? I remeber reading somewhere that they are supposed to be able to make it through the off season w/o a charge.

[SacRiverRat]

I usually burry mine in the back yard. Being encased in dirt keeps them insullated from the temp changes, and garage trolls..

Seriously, I plan on leaving mine hooked up and in the boat. I might charge perriodically.. but I might not. The batteries in my vehicles seem to do fine sitting in the cars, hooked up - even with minimal to no use over the winter... even with their close proximity to the concrete floor

[obski]

I've never had a problem leaving the batteries in the boat. With the Perko switch I just isolate them in the off position.

[VinRLX]

88, if the battery has no means of discharge and remains charged, it will not freeze. If it is weak, does not hold a charge, or discharges, then it can freeze. How does the idea of finding a cracked battery in the boat next Spring strike you? Lug it out old man.

You just killed my experiment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, I figured. And I bet 99 times out of a hundred you wouldn't have a problem. It's that one time that gets to us anal Malibu owners.

[VinRLX]

I've never had a problem leaving the batteries in the boat.  With the Perko switch I just isolate them in the off position.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would you like to be isolated? Is this any way to treat a dedicated battery?

[obski]

I've never had a problem leaving the batteries in the boat.  With the Perko switch I just isolate them in the off position.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would you like to be isolated? Is this any way to treat a dedicated battery?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, it's a battery, it can take it.

[Hman442]

I've never had a problem leaving the batteries in the boat.  With the Perko switch I just isolate them in the off position.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would you like to be isolated? Is this any way to treat a dedicated battery?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, it's a battery, it can take it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

UhOh, another expense during the off season -BATTERY THERAPY