Wakeboarding behind a Skier

[Umatilla Matt]

I crashed in 04, caught a toe edge and the board swung up and hit me in the back/side of the head. Crushed my Skull in onto my brain, I got 3 Titanium Plates screwed to my skull and 40 staples to hold my scalp together. It took me 2 weeks to get full motion back in my left arm, and I still can't feel a portion of my tricept.

I wear a helmet.

**Take it easy on me about my Avitar, it was way before the accident and I was way dumber when I was 20**

Wow! No wonder you wear a helmet now. I guess it's just one of those things that's hard to see how it could happen, so people don't think about it. Like I said, I've never seen anyone out on the lakes around here with a helmet on unless they're grinding rails.

The way I see it, I'll take my chances. If it's gonna happen, it's just gonna happen. It's a risk I take for the sport. Your story gives me a different perspective and something to think about though.

I didn't even think about your avatar. I'm 20 right now, and I always wear a full-face helmet on my bike, not only because I value the skin on my face, but also because it's illegal to ride without a helmet in Florida if you're under 21.

[Levi900RR]

Wow! No wonder you wear a helmet now. I guess it's just one of those things that's hard to see how it could happen, so people don't think about it. Like I said, I've never seen anyone out on the lakes around here with a helmet on unless they're grinding rails.

The way I see it, I'll take my chances. If it's gonna happen, it's just gonna happen. It's a risk I take for the sport. Your story gives me a different perspective and something to think about though.

I didn't even think about your avatar. I'm 20 right now, and I always wear a full-face helmet on my bike, not only because I value the skin on my face, but also because it's illegal to ride without a helmet in Florida if you're under 21.

I used to do a lot of cool (dumb) stuff on bikes man, used to ride in Florida all the time with no helmet. The original Stuntfest was in Lakeland (I got 2nd place in freestyle wheely!). I used to drive down from VT almost every other weekend all winter to ride.

I used to feel like if it was gonna happen it would, and it did... Good luck man and stay safe, on the road and on the water!

[wakeboy]

Back to the riding conversation. I honestly think you should ride at 60 and faster. I think you will get more air that way. I used to clear the wake plus a lot more when I really cut in hard and I got a lot of air. I didn't even need ballast.

I will say that I think you should weigh down your boat this year. There is no point in putting it off til next year. Just grab some cheap 6 gallon gas canisters from walmart, fill them up and put them in the back of the boat for some cheap ballast. 6 gallons of water should be close to 50 pounds. Grab 5 to 7 of them and put them on the side of the boat you jump from. It will give you an extra 250 to 350 pounds of ballast. Throw a couple weights back there too or something and give yourself a good size ramp.

[TrickyNicky]

Back to the riding conversation. I honestly think you should ride at 60 and faster. I think you will get more air that way. I used to clear the wake plus a lot more when I really cut in hard and I got a lot of air. I didn't even need ballast.

I will say that I think you should weigh down your boat this year. There is no point in putting it off til next year. Just grab some cheap 6 gallon gas canisters from walmart, fill them up and put them in the back of the boat for some cheap ballast. 6 gallons of water should be close to 50 pounds. Grab 5 to 7 of them and put them on the side of the boat you jump from. It will give you an extra 250 to 350 pounds of ballast. Throw a couple weights back there too or something and give yourself a good size ramp.

Rubbermaid bins work just as well and have a HUGE capacity. We used to do this all the time to our ski-club boat to surf. There inexpensive but pay attention to which one you buy as they will all leak some water but some will POUR water. Seriously it is AWESOME ballast for super cheap though.

[Levi900RR]

Will 2 or 300 lbs make a significant difference? I think I have 300 lbs of weights laying around. I could throw them in the back pretty easy...

[TrickyNicky]

Will 2 or 300 lbs make a significant difference? I think I have 300 lbs of weights laying around. I could throw them in the back pretty easy...

To put it simply, It's not goign to HURT

[Levi900RR]

To put it simply, It's not goign to HURT

Good point, ill give it a try this weekend. I'm planning on playing around with rope length as well.

[Malibudude]

If you want to steepen the wake add weight to the rear, to shape and make it rampy add weight in the bow.

I can tell you that working on the fundamentals, I know they aren't flashy or exciting, but they are a necessary evil to progression. A bigger wake won't make a rider any better and yes I've watched many ride behind a DD and pull inverts, so it can be done w/ the proper technique adding ballast requires less charging the wake but in the end won't make it easier if the fundamentals are lacking. So you've got a good foundation of tricks build off of them… indy stiffy, backside 180 and other board grabs. One of the hardest things to maintain during a run is to keep the handle down at the waist, once those arms come up bad things usually happen..

For great pop…While outside the wake, make the line tight (load the line) and start turning towards the wake. Keep an edge the whole way, even when you're going through the wake itself. A lot of people flatten the board right before they hit the wake. Don't do this. Keep an edge all the way through the wake. When you are in the air then you can flatten out the board. Look down and spot your landing. When you land don't expect to use the rope to keep you up. Try and land balanced because the rope will be slack and pulling on it will only make you fall backwards. All the rope does is keep you going once you have landed and regained balance. To go higher, dig in a sharper edge which will accelerate you towards the wake and straighten your legs when you hit the wake to be shot up.

[Levi900RR]

So when you "stand tall" right at the wake are you essentually leaning back slightly? I'm not sure how I would stand tall and not flatten out the board??

Thanks much for all your help I will be rocking back rolls before you know it!

[wakeboy]

Ya I like the rubbermaid idea too. 300 pounds should make a difference. 60 pounds would make a noticable difference. If the wake is too steep try moving more weight forward. A steep ramp will hel you get up higher obviously. Ya def hold your edge through the wake, get a non stretch rope too. Also, for back rolls you are going to want to flatten that board before you hit the wake, it will feel almost like you lost all your speed but you will still have plenty. It will also seem like the wake is tripping you, but look back and see how far you can get around. You will be surprised how quickly you can pick that up. I have seen it done a lot on a direct drive skier. I also think it is easier than a 360.

[martinarcher]

There's some good advice and some that might apply to V-Drives, but not the Skier. Speeding up a Skier to clear the wake is a bad idea. It hurts more when you crash and does nothing to add to your wake size. Run the boat at 18-21mph and you will get the best wake out of your boat. Trust me I've ridden a lot at 24mph and the wake blows and the crashes hurt. Sure you'll get wake to wake, but like MDude said, practice the fundamentals and you'll be much better off, end up getting higher and land your tricks much more often.

The Skier is not a boat that likes bow weight for "shaping the wake" I have a 1000lb sac in the bow and the less water in that thing the better last year. This year we have been riding without it and the wake looks as good as ever. More weight toward the rear of the boat will help. If you get it steep enough to need bow weight I want pics of your set-up. I think if you throw those weights you have in the boat you will certainly notice a difference. I know I can tell when we are missing my buddies brother. His 200lbs changes the wake shape. Also, if you are practicing heelside wake to wakes there is no harm in weighing the jump side of the boat a bit heavy to make the ramp on that side better. If you don't have a bunch of ballast it might be the best way to start.

This pic is at 19mph with a 500lb V-Drive sac on either side of the motor as far back as you can slide them and three people in the boat. You can get plenty of height for inverts.

[Levi900RR]

Im gonna put the weights in the boat, run about 19 mph and 50' this weekend and see what happens!

[martinarcher]

Im gonna put the weights in the boat, run about 19 mph and 50' this weekend and see what happens!

Try rope lengths from 50-65. The wake seems to steepen up a bit after 50. Might help get some more pop.

Just keep your form in mind and I think you'll be happy with the results. Here's a little video that really helped me when I was learning to W2W. Lots of good freeze frames that help you get the body position and form down.

[wakeboy]

Hold your edge threw the wake, you will be accelerating threw as you wil lbe loading up with more speed. striaghten up a bit when you get to the wake and you will be surprised how much air you get. really make sure you try longer lengths like 60 and 65. honestly 50 might work for you but more rope length will allow you more possible hang time, more time to set up for the jump, and it isn't a short cut that can hurt your fundamentals. also, speeds around 21 mph will be good at 60 to 65 off, you will have a harder time riding at 19 mph 65 off. I did it behind the direct drives for years and big air, spins, and inverts were all mastered before we ever went to a vdrive. good luck and let us know how it goes.

[91Sunsetter]

I have a 91 Sunsetter. With 3 bags of 50lb. playsand from Lowes under the backseat.(Fits perfect for $9) We ride at 60' rope length but at about 24-25mph. We both can clear backside w2w 70-80% but 0% on toeside.(Our lack of skill). Recently we added a 800lbs. fat sac with pump and threw it in front of the backseat to try for a bigger wake. FAIL, what we got instead was little to no increase but absolutely MURDEROUS on gas! Not to mention the boat had to really work to get out of the hole. We might try to add another fat sac though but straddle the motor box instead. Like "martinarcher" does.

Edited July 16, 2010 by 91Sunsetter

[martinarcher]

I have a 91 Sunsetter. With 3 bags of 50lb. playsand from Lowes under the backseat.(Fits perfect for $9) We ride at 60' rope length but at about 24-25mph. We both can clear backside w2w 70-80% but 0% on toeside.(Our lack of skill). Recently we added a 800lbs. fat sac with pump and threw it in front of the backseat to try for a bigger wake. FAIL, what we got instead was little to no increase but absolutely MURDEROUS on gas! Not to mention the boat had to really work to get out of the hole. We might try to add another fat sac though but straddle the motor box instead. Like "martinarcher" does.

We have tried weight in the very rear of the boat for boarding and had mixed results. If you have a few folks in the observer area it was decent, but I certainly think weight on both sides of the dogbox give the best results on my boat. I certainly know weight in the bow makes the wake disappear like magic. I know the older Sunsetter were on a different hull so you might get different results. Let us know how the bags straddling with dogbox work for you.

Just remember...there's no replacement for hull displacement.

[91Sunsetter]

We have tried weight in the very rear of the boat for boarding and had mixed results. If you have a few folks in the observer area it was decent, but I certainly think weight on both sides of the dogbox give the best results on my boat. I certainly know weight in the bow makes the wake disappear like magic. I know the older Sunsetter were on a different hull so you might get different results. Let us know how the bags straddling with dogbox work for you.

Just remember...there's no replacement for hull displacement.

You boat looks to be the same as mine. Other than your closed bow.

[wakeboy]

Ya the skier is not meant to displace water and an evenly weighted boat will want to rise above the water. Bow weight isn't bad, but it will have to be a smaller percentage of what is in the back. I found with my direct drive that weighing both sides down and then adding about 200 more pounds on the side I wanted to jump from worked best. Remember passengers siting up front will count towards your bow ballast as well.

[Levi900RR]

Latest Update, All the advice from the Crew definitely paid off!! I can't believe how easy it is to get decent air when you have the correct technique! We went out last night and I really focused on holding my edge through the wake, rather than flattening the board out and man... After getting the feel for it I was holding pretty decent grabs and clearing the wake with ease!!!

Now I'm sore and can't wait to get back out there.

Thanks to everyone for the tips. I'll be whipping back rolls and spinning 3's before you know it!