Wakesurfing illegal in Indiana

[jk13]

We have a few Wake Surfers on our Lake in Monticello, IN. However, I have never seen or heard of any of them ever getting pulled over or ticketed. Our lake is patrolled by both the C.O. and Sheriff especially on the weekends. If it were up to me I'd make bass boats and PWC's illegal on our lake...I hate those things!

Wawassee is a beautiful lake by the way. Largest natural lake in Indiana.

So how would you get your December/January runs in then? Take an axe and shove the Barefooter through the ice?

Don't hate the jetski, hate the bad jetskiers.

Edited June 8, 2010 by jk13

[Tyger]

Based on the study, would you agree that the most dangerous place, is the back seat of your boat? And of course, I'd be even more nervous about young children. In the quick scan of the study, I didn't see anywhere in where they quoted "safe" levels. A brief google search led me to believe that CO alarms are triggered at somewhere above 40-70 PPM. I believe the study had an average CO of 140 ppm at the rear seat, at 7.5 mph in an older carbureted Correct Craft. I'd hope that newer, FI motors would be much less, and the cats on the Monsoon take care of the issue.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to be an alarmist who's against wake surfing. Just an overprotective dad, that doesn't have to worry about the kids when they are watching my wife and I ride the wave.

You definitely have a right to be concerned about the safety of your family and you shouldn't do anything you aren't comfortable with.

The study I linked definitely listed the EPA 'danger zone' for CO, but it's a bit contentious. The biggest problem in a boat isn't outright CO poisoning from 1000+ PPM, it's people falling asleep, falling in the water and drowning. This can happen with as little as 70 PPM.

In TX, the law is that children under 13 need a life vest at all times. If you are worried about your kid's safety, keep them off the sundeck/transom or make everyone not in a seat wear a life jacket, regardless of age.

This recent video might help you understand CO levels from a more modern boat (although not one with cats) at various places and speeds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7i0BjrGah2U.

Adding a bimini top, closing the front window, going at speeds below 9-10, even idling at the dock all can create dangerous situations.

I have the FAE on my boat and I really, really like it.

[kent]

Lake Freeman. If you are heading to the Sandbar we are just before the Madam Carroll on the right side where it is shallow and there are a lot of docks. Look for the buoys and the Basketball goal. That's us.

OK, I know about where that is. Isnt there a green natique close to you? I was just up there yesterday looking at the house across the lake from pearsons with all the windows. But they want an arm and a leg, its going to take a ton of $ to finish it out. So unless my fam pitches in Ill be looking for a smaller place for myself. Know of any place thats a good deal?

[areamike]

OK, I know about where that is. Isnt there a green natique close to you? I was just up there yesterday looking at the house across the lake from pearsons with all the windows. But they want an arm and a leg, its going to take a ton of $ to finish it out. So unless my fam pitches in Ill be looking for a smaller place for myself. Know of any place thats a good deal?

[hijack]

There's a place there next to where that Green Nautique is close to the Maddam Carroll. I['m not sure what they want for it though. There's actually quite a few properties on our lake for sale right now.

I'm actually a little bit before the green nautique on the same side before you make the turn.

You can PM me sometime and maybe I can get you more info. In the meantime, here's a pretty good link for properties.

http://www.lakehouse.com/search.php?off=4&cid=271&stype=&s_res=AND&s_by=&a_d=desc

[end hijack]

[TBI]

I they want to argue the proximity point, ask them about a barefoot boom? Much higher speeds, and the risk of the teak platform striking the head of the footer. Nearly impossible, but hypothetically, yes?

[hooty1919]

I got stopped last weekend on Lake Raystown in PA. The officer told me that I was being pulled pretty close to the boat with the rope. I told him that I wasn't using a rope, I was surfing without it. He insisted I had a rope and I insisted I was surfing. He then said I saw you get up with the rope. I said of course I got up with the rope but threw it in the boat after 5 seconds. I just wanted to give him a hard time since he is giving me a hard time! He then told me that the rope had to be 20' behind my swim platform. At the time I didn't know how this law read so in trying to make sure he didn't write me up I told him that I would lengthen my rope so it was 20' back. He then did the pain in the A boat check so by the time he left, my boat was in shambles. I told him that this is a huge sport and people do it all over the country. Pa is normally the last state for people to start doing cool things such as wakesurfing. He agreed that there is not a law against it, just that the 20' law makes it hard to do it and it's a gray area. I told him that at 20' back I am 15' out of the pocket I need to be in. I asked if I could pull my self up into the pocket once I get going. He said I could. How stupid is that!! Not even 1/2 hour after he left, I was pulling myself up and hit some wakes from another boat. I had the rope coiled up in one hand and accidentally wrapped it around my other hand. I started to fall and felt the rope start to tighten around my hand. I threw the rope and started to shake my hands at the same time I was falling. Thank goodness the rope came free of my hand. So instead of making something safer, they are actually making it more dangerous. Getting back to the 20' rule, I looked it up on PAs boating website. All it says is that the rope must not be shorter than 20'. It says nothing about 20' from where, just that the rope is 20'. This weekend I am going to measure a hair over 20', tie a knot, put the rope on my tower, which will put me pretty close to where I need to be and surf away! My dealer attended a meeting 2 years ago about wakesurfing in PA. He said he convinced them that it was safe and should be a legal sport. 2 years later and nothing has changed with the rules to make it clear that this is legal. If they were changing a law with fishing that would make them money it would have been changed right on the spot! One things for sure, they won't get any citation money off of me without a fight!

[MalibuTime]

Here is another thing to remember in Pa the Gov cut special interest funding ie. the Fish and Game commission. So they have to fend for themselfs, that means tickets for us for them to survive. I had a so called safety inspection at a local lake last week (was over my stereo) but the game warden was cool. He told me that they were going to crack down on the noise levels that we can put out.

The issue with the surf boarding I just can't figure out. I can not find anything that says anything about the distance you need to be behind the boat. They wright you up for being to Close to the boat what about the barefoot booms?

The noise level that they want to crack down on and the surf board thing is there own personal pet peeves. They do not have decimal meters so how can they tell how loud we are. Plus there is a conflict of interest weather they can even issue a disturbing fine. They are not police.

Like said before just watch out for them.

Out here F&W have teeth, and are Police. Kind of County Mounty and G-Man all rolled into one. Snagged this from their website...

Officers’ Authority

The Fish and Wildlife Enforcement Program is primarily responsible for enforcing Title 77 - the Fish and Wildlife Code. FWOs are also empowered to enforce all criminal laws, including traffic violations, drugs, and warrants for arrest. Officers hold county commissions and are charged with enforcing county ordinances as they relate to trespass, hunting, fishing, and boating safety.

Officers also hold federal U.S. Fish and Wildlife and National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) commissions, and have jurisdiction over federal violations, the most important of which are the Endangered Species Act and the Lacey Act. Officers work joint patrols and coordinate with these agencies and the U.S. Coast Guard.

[Deke]

The thing about CO poisoning is that there is absolutely nothing you can do about it once it is in your blood. To make matters worse, the affected person doesn't know it is happening. So once you pass out your pretty much done... pfd or not. Quite a dilemma. I agree that the risk is not like teak surfing but there is a risk none the less. What would you do if your job was to ensure safety for the general public? I'm not saying surfing should be banned outright but I don't think there is much in the way of "proof" that there is no CO risk. That's what you need to be able to show. Would a manfacturer's association help provide the data and lobby?

Edited June 18, 2010 by Deke

[Living the Dream]

It is also illegal to wake surf in California as well. As I was stopped by an Sheriff...

[99response]

Also have to think about people who are dumb enough to try wakesurfing with their I/O or outboard motors, which is a serious safety risk. Makes enforcement that much harder for the fuzz.

[zornman]

So I received an email from the DNR last week and they have made a ruling. Wakesurfing IS legal in Indiana and a communication is going out statewide so that it is enforced in the same manner. There are 2 stipulations - the boat must be an inboard (no IOs or Outboards) and you must be 5 feet from the transom. Other than that, you are good to go.

BTW - Completed my first 3 of the season last night!

[MalibuWantToBe]

So I received an email from the DNR last week and they have made a ruling. Wakesurfing IS legal in Indiana and a communication is going out statewide so that it is enforced in the same manner. There are 2 stipulations - the boat must be an inboard (no IOs or Outboards) and you must be 5 feet from the transom. Other than that, you are good to go.

BTW - Completed my first 3 of the season last night!

So do I take that as everyone must do a deep water start, no sliding off my platform to start and onto it to finish or rest? I'm not a fan of that, as I can't do it, and it is scratching the heck out of my teaked platform.

[Tyger]

So I received an email from the DNR last week and they have made a ruling. Wakesurfing IS legal in Indiana and a communication is going out statewide so that it is enforced in the same manner. There are 2 stipulations - the boat must be an inboard (no IOs or Outboards) and you must be 5 feet from the transom. Other than that, you are good to go.

BTW - Completed my first 3 of the season last night!

Wow, awesome. Glad to see they made an informed decision.

[martinarcher]

That rocks. Good to see a state go the right way on wakesurfing. Most are unfortunately jumping on the CO/teak surfing bandwagon and lumping it in with those.

[ryansgt]

So I got out for the 3rd time this year last Saturday on Memorial weekend. I was in the middle of my set when the Conservation Officer pulled us over. He said that wakesurfing is illegal in Indiana. After being told we were only getting a written warning, I began to ask a few more questions. In itself, surfing is not illegal. The activity falls under the dangerous and reckless boating laws for 2 reasons. First, the proximity to the boat is too close. Second, the risk of Carbon Monoxide poisoning is too great. I tried to clarify the difference between this and Teak Surfing, but he disagreed. I also discussed FAE with him and he stated that does not help with the proximity to the boat. The problem is that the law is subjective & a C/O has a lot of power.

So I followed up today with a call to the Law Enforcement section of the DNR in Indy today. The man I spoke with said "I think I would have liked doing that a few years ago." Then he couldn't think of a law that said it was illegal, but he spoke with Felix Hensley (sp?) who is their legal expert and he agreed it could fall under the dangerous or reckless behavior - sounds like it is all an interpretation issue. Apparently, someone died last year while lying on the sun deck or the swim platform of CO inhilation (passed out, fell in the water, and could not be revived). Now it is becoming a "Big Brother" issue.

I will be calling the local DNR for additional follow up on how it is going to be treated in my area. There are 4 officers that operate the lakes in my area. Hopefully, we can agree that the proximity to the boat is not an issue as long as it is an inboard or V-Drive. Then it is just a matter of overcoming the CO issue. At least there are options for that (FAE, side exhaust, etc.). I'll make another post when I find out more information.

So for now, I am just going to call May 29, 2010 Black Saturday

If it is too close, ask if the people using barefoot booms are also operating recklessly

[gregtay]

The FAE study and this: http://www.uscgboating.org/assets/1/Publications/CO_SafeDistanceReport.pdf are your friends. They have repeatedly shown that CO emissions are safe at a short height above the exhaust.

I had heard while living in WA that they had outlawed wake surfing, but I didn't own a boat there. Since then I have seen several videos of people surfing in WA.

I asked a boat rep about it at the boat show two years ago and he said he is a member of a boating industry group, that WA does indeed ban wake surfing (not just teak surfing) and they are fighting laws in several states to make is illegal elsewhere.

Personally, I would print out the page of the Coast Guard study showing the danger zone and show it to any CO that gives you a problem. Hopefully you don't have to take it to court, but if so the facts are on your side.

Keep wake surfing legal!

I know this post is a a month old the but the thread is still alive... and i wanted to correct this... Wakesurfing is NOT illegal in Washington State as commented above. Teak surfing is not allowed, but wakesurfing is just fine and you can find tons of people surfing right in front of the KC sheriff boat onn any weekend on Sammamish.

RCW 79A.60.660

Operating motor driven boat or vessel for teak surfing, platform dragging, bodysurfing — Prohibition — Exceptions — Penalty.

(1) No person may operate a motor driven boat or vessel or have the engine of a motor driven boat or vessel run idle while an individual is teak surfing, platform dragging, or bodysurfing behind the motor driven boat or vessel.

(2) No person may operate a motor driven boat or vessel or have the engine of a motor driven boat or vessel run idle while an individual is occupying or holding onto the swim platform, swim deck, swim step, or swim ladder of the motor driven boat or vessel.

(3) Subsection (2) of this section does not apply when an individual is occupying the swim platform, swim deck, swim step, or swim ladder for a very brief period of time while assisting with the docking or departure of the vessel, while exiting or entering the vessel, or while the vessel is engaged in law enforcement or emergency rescue activity.

(4) For the purposes of this section, "teak surfing" or "platform dragging" means holding onto the swim platform, swim deck, swim step, swim ladder, or any portion of the exterior of the transom of a motor driven boat or vessel for any amount of time while the motor driven boat or vessel is underway at any speed.

(5) For the purposes of this section, "bodysurfing" means swimming or floating on one's stomach or on one's back on or in the wake directly behind a motor driven boat or vessel that is underway.

(6) A violation of this section is a natural resource infraction punishable as provided under chapter 7.84 RCW, however the fine imposed may not exceed one hundred dollars.

[2006 c 140 § 1.]

Notes:

Short title -- 2006 c 140: "This act may be known and cited as the Jenda Jones and Denise Colbert safe boating act." [2006 c 140 § 5.]