***Before you change your fuel pump READ this**

[justgary]

1 hour ago, formulaben said:

No load vs load.  Also happens to folks with a clogged fuel filter.

It's surprising how much RPM you can get by barely cracking the throttle in neutral.

2 hours ago, LakeLiving said:

Also, what's with the pressure dropping so quickly? Could that also be due to bad fuel pressure regulator?

That's kind of the *definition* of a bad regulator.

[LakeLiving]

I believe this is my fuel pressure regulator.  Can anyone confirm? (fuel pump is there on the left).

Also can't seem to find one for for a 2005 Indmar 5.7. Where can I find this? Part number? Bakes has one for mid 90's engines.

I removed the small bolt next to it.  It holds a ring which presses on a flange. I can't see anything else holding it in place.  I tapped it with a wrench. Not budging. 

Edited June 11, 2020 by LakeLiving

[kylegansel]

Hi guys - I realize this is an old thread but I'm trying to do as much research this week before I return to the lake.  I had started another thread (see below) with my boat fuel pump / fuel issues this past weekend.  For a quick recap of what I dealtwith last weekend.

• I have a 2005 Malibu Response LX w/ Indmar LCR 320.  I am religious about taking great care of my boat.  You could eat off my engine. 
• Friday afternoon when I arrived.  She started right up and took her around the lake a few times.
• Friday at 9pm went to ski.  Started her and she coughed out very quickly.  When to tried her a few times again she wouldn't turn over.  The fuel pump primed but didn't sound like it did before.  Almost like it was starving for gas.
• Saturday morning saw this thread.  Pulled intake hose off the bottom of the pump and cleaned the screen with carb cleaner.  Didn't see anything come out but one black spec.
• She fired right up and ran great.  I also checked the fuel pressure and I had 60 lbs.  I still didn't like the sound of the pump priming (I know how my boat sounds) so I called the local dealer.  They told me to pick up a fuel pump to be safe.  I left the boat on the side of the dock for 2 hours. My dad was using my lift with his 06 Response. :-)
• Came back from picking up a new fuel pump and she wouldn't turn over.  She was close but wouldn't.  Put her on the lift and changed the fuel pump.  She fired right up.  This new pump sounds different to me....
• Used the boat on Sunday great.  Used the boat on Monday morning - all good.  Let her sit for an hour in the sun to dry the carpet after skiing.  Went to start the boat and same issue.  She wanted to turn over but wouldn't.  
• Put her on the lift and opened the clam shell.  She hot?  Maybe vapor lock?  Put some sea foam in and some more gas.  She fired right up but the pump still sounded like it was starving for gas.
• Change the Fuel Filter out again.  I just changed it after we burned through our winter gas over Memorial day weekend.  She fired right up and ran great for the next 1.5 hours while I took the family skiing.  Headed home for the week.

So, I've read a ton about this and I've spoken to some mechanics and friends.  A few say to drain the fuel tank and put in fresh ethanol free gas.  Another said to put in octane boost and more sea foam.  After that tank is gone to replace the plugs cause the octane boost will burn hot.  I do have some concerns about putting octane boost in my boat.  I'm at 565 hours.  Cap, Rotor, Spark Plugs, and wires were all changed at 500 hours. 

Some are saying  bad gas.  If it was bad gas though wouldn't it sound like crap when I got it to run?  Plus I have about 25 gallons of gas in there now.  What do I do with all the gas if it's bad?  Others are saying vapor lock.  I figured since this was a longer thread maybe I could get some other opinions.  I did buy a ethanol test kit on Amazon so I can test the fuel this weekend.  

Also - I uploaded two videos to youtube so folks here could give they're opinion on how this new pump sounds..  

First video is when I turn the key and prime the pump.  Second video is when the pump is running.

 

 

 

  

[LakeLiving]

2 hours ago, kylegansel said:

• Put her on the lift and opened the clam shell.  She hot?  Maybe vapor lock?  Put some sea foam in and some more gas.  She fired right up but the pump still sounded like it was starving for gas.
• Change the Fuel Filter out again.  I just changed it after we burned through our winter gas over Memorial day weekend.  She fired right up and ran great for the next 1.5 hours while I took the family skiing.  Headed home for the week.

@kylegansel My old pump made that noise but not as loud, and only at startup.  I replaced the pump as part of the troubleshooting mentioned above, same part number as the original, and the whining noise is a bit louder at startup then it used to be.  Is this the new normal?

Looks like we have same/similar engine.  I can't find my fuel filter.  Where's yours? I looked under the ski locker (above the tank) and found an inline filter of some sort. Assuming that's it. Only clean gas came out of it. How can you tell if it needs to be replaced.

Edited June 11, 2020 by LakeLiving

[kylegansel]

Maybe it is the new normal I guess.  That's what I'm hoping at least.  How does your new pump sound? 

My filter is located just behind the clam shell under the floor.  You pull up that board and it's right there next to the muffler on the port side of the boat.  Mine takes a Wix 33299 cause it's 1/2".  

[srab]

2 hours ago, LakeLiving said:

  I can't find my fuel filter.  Where's yours? I looked under the ski locker (above the tank) and found an inline filter of some sort. Assuming that's it. Only clean gas came out of it. How can you tell if it needs to be replaced.

Yes, that is the only filter.  On my boat (2006 Malibu v-drive), it is a Wix 33299, and the local O'Reilly carries it.

If you've never changed it, it would probably be a good idea to do so. FWIW, I change mine out every year, along with the impeller, as part of de-winterizing.

Edited June 11, 2020 by srab

[kylegansel]

I change my fuel filter every spring after going through the first tank of gas.  With the issues I've dealt with I've actually changed it twice in the past month.  

[BlindSquirrel]

46 minutes ago, kylegansel said:

I change my fuel filter every spring after going through the first tank of gas.  With the issues I've dealt with I've actually changed it twice in the past month.  

I listened to your videos and it sounds very much like my dads old bu that we discovered was not getting enough fuel. Our issue happened to be the inside of the fuel line collapsed and restricted flow. We trouble shot by hooking a fuel hose directly to the pump from a gas can. The pump was whisper quiet pulling from the can. Do you run only ethanol free gas? The symptoms of his boat were intermittent starting Issues and bogging under load.

[kylegansel]

I did follow the fuel line from the filter back to the tank and I didn't see any kinks.  That isn't a bad idea though to take a fuel hose and go right to the tank.  FWIW, this is my 6th season with the boat and I've never had any issues so I'd be shocked that it would be kinked all of the sudden but who knows. 

I haven't been running ethanol free at all because we burn through lots of gas each weekend.  After all this I'm thinking of going ethanol free from here on out.  It is intermittent starts for me but I've had absolutely no bogging under load at all.  I ran her wide open a bit a few times and she was fine.  The more I research I'm feeling like there is air in the line or vapor lock.......  

[justgary]

20 minutes ago, kylegansel said:

I did follow the fuel line from the filter back to the tank and I didn't see any kinks.  That isn't a bad idea though to take a fuel hose and go right to the tank.  FWIW, this is my 6th season with the boat and I've never had any issues so I'd be shocked that it would be kinked all of the sudden but who knows. 

I haven't been running ethanol free at all because we burn through lots of gas each weekend.  After all this I'm thinking of going ethanol free from here on out.  It is intermittent starts for me but I've had absolutely no bogging under load at all.  I ran her wide open a bit a few times and she was fine.  The more I research I'm feeling like there is air in the line or vapor lock.......  

Check your fuel pressure.  Key on/engine off, idle, cruise, and wide open throttle.

[kylegansel]

Will do.  I bought a kit to do all that this weekend. Had 60 PSI on Key Up last weekend but never tested it running. 

[Bozboat]

20 hours ago, LakeLiving said:

I believe this is my fuel pressure regulator.  Can anyone confirm? (fuel pump is there on the left).

Also can't seem to find one for for a 2005 Indmar 5.7. Where can I find this? Part number? Bakes has one for mid 90's engines.

I removed the small bolt next to it.  It holds a ring which presses on a flange. I can't see anything else holding it in place.  I tapped it with a wrench. Not budging. 

Yes. With the bolts out it should be held in by an O ring.  You may have to walk it out. You should be able to see a part number on it when you get it out.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Bozboat

[Bozboat]

7 hours ago, kylegansel said:

Hi guys - I realize this is an old thread but I'm trying to do as much research this week before I return to the lake.  I had started another thread (see below) with my boat fuel pump / fuel issues this past weekend.  For a quick recap of what I dealtwith last weekend.

• I have a 2005 Malibu Response LX w/ Indmar LCR 320.  I am religious about taking great care of my boat.  You could eat off my engine. 
• Friday afternoon when I arrived.  She started right up and took her around the lake a few times.
• Friday at 9pm went to ski.  Started her and she coughed out very quickly.  When to tried her a few times again she wouldn't turn over.  The fuel pump primed but didn't sound like it did before.  Almost like it was starving for gas.
• Saturday morning saw this thread.  Pulled intake hose off the bottom of the pump and cleaned the screen with carb cleaner.  Didn't see anything come out but one black spec.
• She fired right up and ran great.  I also checked the fuel pressure and I had 60 lbs.  I still didn't like the sound of the pump priming (I know how my boat sounds) so I called the local dealer.  They told me to pick up a fuel pump to be safe.  I left the boat on the side of the dock for 2 hours. My dad was using my lift with his 06 Response. :-)
• Came back from picking up a new fuel pump and she wouldn't turn over.  She was close but wouldn't.  Put her on the lift and changed the fuel pump.  She fired right up.  This new pump sounds different to me....
• Used the boat on Sunday great.  Used the boat on Monday morning - all good.  Let her sit for an hour in the sun to dry the carpet after skiing.  Went to start the boat and same issue.  She wanted to turn over but wouldn't.  
• Put her on the lift and opened the clam shell.  She hot?  Maybe vapor lock?  Put some sea foam in and some more gas.  She fired right up but the pump still sounded like it was starving for gas.
• Change the Fuel Filter out again.  I just changed it after we burned through our winter gas over Memorial day weekend.  She fired right up and ran great for the next 1.5 hours while I took the family skiing.  Headed home for the week.

So, I've read a ton about this and I've spoken to some mechanics and friends.  A few say to drain the fuel tank and put in fresh ethanol free gas.  Another said to put in octane boost and more sea foam.  After that tank is gone to replace the plugs cause the octane boost will burn hot.  I do have some concerns about putting octane boost in my boat.  I'm at 565 hours.  Cap, Rotor, Spark Plugs, and wires were all changed at 500 hours. 

Some are saying  bad gas.  If it was bad gas though wouldn't it sound like crap when I got it to run?  Plus I have about 25 gallons of gas in there now.  What do I do with all the gas if it's bad?  Others are saying vapor lock.  I figured since this was a longer thread maybe I could get some other opinions.  I did buy a ethanol test kit on Amazon so I can test the fuel this weekend.  

Also - I uploaded two videos to youtube so folks here could give they're opinion on how this new pump sounds..  

First video is when I turn the key and prime the pump.  Second video is when the pump is running.

 

 

 

  

 “an engine that won’t turn over” generally means the crankshaft does not does spin when you engage the starter.  If that is what you mean by “she wouldn’t turn over” that would indicate problems other than a fuel pump problem.

What do you mean exactly by “she wouldn’t turn over?”

[Chaabo]

@kylegansel
Sometimes Ethanol causes rubber fuel lines to internally collapse and restrict the fuel flow. Would explain the pump seemingly starving for gas and maybe even the high pitched whine that’s audible in your video. Had a 2005 (and a 2006) LCR as well and barely could hear the pump.

You could probably rig up a short piece of fuel line feeding off a gas can to check if that’s your issue?

[kylegansel]

13 hours ago, Bozboat said:

 “an engine that won’t turn over” generally means the crankshaft does not does spin when you engage the starter.  If that is what you mean by “she wouldn’t turn over” that would indicate problems other than a fuel pump problem.

What do you mean exactly by “she wouldn’t turn over?”

Basically I mean she's about to fire up but doesn't cause it sounds like she's not getting enough gas.  

[BlindSquirrel]

14 hours ago, Chaabo said:

@kylegansel
Sometimes Ethanol causes rubber fuel lines to internally collapse and restrict the fuel flow. Would explain the pump seemingly starving for gas and maybe even the high pitched whine that’s audible in your video. Had a 2005 (and a 2006) LCR as well and barely could hear the pump.

You could probably rig up a short piece of fuel line feeding off a gas can to check if that’s your issue?

Yep, I’d do this before chasing anything else.

[Bozboat]

2 hours ago, kylegansel said:

Basically I mean she's about to fire up but doesn't cause it sounds like she's not getting enough gas.  

Ok, the engine is turning over but will not start or catch or fire up.  That helps me understand. Thanks

Edited June 12, 2020 by Bozboat

[kylegansel]

Yep.  I’m gonna test the gas first and then go into the pump from a gas can and see how it all sounds.  

[JT88]

Similar issue in a 2006 Malibu monsoon 340.

i have replaced: fuel filter, fuel pump. Spark plug wires, distributor, rotor and added some sea foam to tank.  Issue is much better but still occurs every once in a while.  The pic of my system is eerily like the top one (of two) that deltoro posted a page or two back.  The SCREEN that everyone talks about, I never saw - is it IN the tank side portion of the hose or is it part of the fuel pump?

 When it dies now, if I vent the Schrader valve (just press it like I was letting air out of a tire) I can always start it right back up...

 

Next up are new plugs. 
and a formal check of fuel pressure.  Thanks to all of y’all for a great thread!  This board (and the several-week wait for professional service) have helped me learn a ton about my boat.  It’s so close to being perfect and I really want to get there.

[Bozboat]

5 minutes ago, JT88 said:

Similar issue in a 2006 Malibu monsoon 340.

i have replaced: fuel filter, fuel pump. Spark plug wires, distributor, rotor and added some sea foam to tank.  Issue is much better but still occurs every once in a while.  The pic of my system is eerily like the top one (of two) that deltoro posted a page or two back.  The SCREEN that everyone talks about, I never saw - is it IN the tank side portion of the hose or is it part of the fuel pump?

 When it dies now, if I vent the Schrader valve (just press it like I was letting air out of a tire) I can always start it right back up...

 

Next up are new plugs. 
and a formal check of fuel pressure.  Thanks to all of y’all for a great thread!  This board (and the several-week wait for professional service) have helped me learn a ton about my boat.  It’s so close to being perfect and I really want to get there.

I think you are on track to check fuel pressure readings at key on, idle, WOT.  The odd clue is that it starts after you bleed fuel pressure.  if it is the fuel pressure regulator, it would be the 2-3 post  over high pressure in one week?

[electricjohn]

On 6/12/2020 at 7:49 AM, kylegansel said:

Basically I mean she's about to fire up but doesn't cause it sounds like she's not getting enough gas.  

"Cranks, but won't start", is the proper terminology.

[LakeLiving]

On 6/11/2020 at 5:49 PM, Bozboat said:

Yes. With the bolts out it should be held in by an O ring.  You may have to walk it out. You should be able to see a part number on it when you get it out.

I do not see an O Ring or a snap ring.  New one also didn't come with a new ring.  Old one only has the one bolt (shown in the pic above) which holds a small ring over the flange.  Bolt and ring comes off but the Pressure Regulator won't budge.  This is the preplacement part.  Doesn't look like anything holds it in place.  https://www.bakesonline.com/fuel-pressure-regulator-4-bar-indmar.html

I've tapped it with a hammer.  Am I being too cautious?  Any harm in giving it a good hit to see if it will loosen up?  

Also, the description for the replacement says  "This is a mechanical regulator and the vacuum nipple is not used. Nipple is generally capped."  Should I cap this once I have it installed?  Can I just put a glob of silicone on it?

Edited June 17, 2020 by LakeLiving

[justgary]

Try putting a bit of spray penetrant on it and then rotating it to break it free.  After that you can probably rock it out.  You could use a screwdriver under the flange, but don't bugger up the face of the housing.

So is that nipple a vacuum port or the fuel return?  If it is a vacuum port, your big box auto parts store will sell you a small assortment of caps in their "Help!" collection.  Silicone will dissolve in gasoline, so don't mess with it.

[LakeLiving]

Thanks for the help so far.  I was able to pry it out and install a new fuel pressure regulator.  I also changed the fuel filter today.  Tested the pressure and the gauge went to 60lbs and held for well over an hour.  So that definitely fixed my pressure issue.   BUT ... I took her out on the water tonight.  Still not going.  I'm able to get to 2k RPM, maybe 10mph, in gear (under load), which is an improvement but not much better. 

I tried running from a 1/2 fuel line connected to the filter.  Had a friend hold a 12oz funnel, connected to the other end, above the engine.  Filled funnel and the 5' of line, with gas to ensure there was no air in the line... it actually ran worse.  Should I just put the hose in a gas can?

Recap of Current Symptoms on my 2005 Indmar 5.7 (250 hours)

• All of this started this spring when I put it in.  3 time out (all short outings) I noticed the engine was very hot so I changed the impeller. It was completely shredded. I also put a new thermostat in and made sure I got all the chunks of rubber out of the hoses.
• Can rev engine fine in neutral but it bogs at 2K RPM under load.  Won't respond to more throttle.
• If I try to give it more throttle for more than 10 seconds it back fires.
• Both my old and new fuel pump look and sound EXACTLY like the one in @kylegansel's video above.
• Pulled the new plugs and they have lots carbon and they're wet with gas (this was before changing the fuel pressure regulator) 

What I've Tried So Far: 
New fuel pump, new fuel pressure regulator, new fuel filter, new plugs, new distributor cap and sensors.  Put 20 gallons fresh gas in and have used 1/4 of it. Confirmed no water in the tank.   All of the injectors sound like they're working. Also tried changing 3 sensors (MAP, TPS, AIC).

PS. The regulator I bought says "This is a mechanical regulator and the vacuum nipple is not used. Nipple is generally capped." I haven't capped it yet but not sure it matters. Revs fine without a cap and runs the same with my finger over the vacuum nipple.

Thanks for sticking with me here.  Only other thing I can think of is replacing the fuel line (or figure out how to run from a gas can (not sure I did it right).

What else can I try? 

[justgary]

Do you have 60 psi while the engine is bogging down?