Midship tank leaking

[Bill_AirJunky]

So how do we keep it from happening again? The hose Malibu used has like plastic rings in it to keep it from kinking or getting crimped. Obviously that didn't work. So do we route it to the sides of the tank? I have no idea if mine was overlapping. I never could see that far in there.

Maybe use a different kind of hose?

[A7X_LSV_23]

Use Stainless Steel braided rubber lines... No reason why it wouldn't work.

[Lance B. Johnson]

I am going to use the same hose. I think going to the more flexible stuff is just asking for a kink and braided stainless = $$

This stuff is cheap $1.50 a foot and if you install it correctly should live a lot longer.

If it was super hard to change I might look at the stainless route but its like a 30 min job total. Besides, I am putting together an order for Bakes anyway.

[Bill_AirJunky]

Yea, I'd kinda like to hear what Malibu says about this. Seems like it should have probably happened quite a bit if it's happened to us. Maybe a hose with a metal ring (instead of plastic) would be better?

I checked Jegs.com for ss braided line & it's like $140 for a 20' section.

[cyoda44]

Just my 2 cents.....

This problem really needs to be brought to Malibu's attention. You would think that they would want to fix a potential warantee issue.

"an ouce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"

[Bobby Light]

I am going to use the same hose. I think going to the more flexible stuff is just asking for a kink and braided stainless = $$

This stuff is cheap $1.50 a foot and if you install it correctly should live a lot longer.

If it was super hard to change I might look at the stainless route but its like a 30 min job total. Besides, I am putting together an order for Bakes anyway.

The hose that Bakes has is not the same as the Malibu hose, but it is tougher and should not crush as easy.

[Bill_AirJunky]

Yea, I think I'm going to call Malibu & talk to them today about this. I gotta think that if at least 3 people of this group have seen it, they have seen it too.

So what is the loop into the battery compartment all about? Some kind of anti-siphon method to keep the tank from automatically filling up? The pump & the tank inlet are literally 3" from each other. Yet there was an 84" hose between them. Maybe there is another way to keep the midship tank from automatically filling up? Like a solenoid valve? Or a stiffer impeller in the pump? Then the hose could be like 10" long & never go between the tank & the floor at all.

[Bill_AirJunky]

I just talked to a tech at Malibu. He said the newer boats have a mechanical anti-siphon valve in that loop in the battery compartment. If you have a newer boat, look in your battery compartment, against the wall on the right. There will be a hose that comes up thru the floor, is zip tied to the wall, then back down. On my boat, it's just a hose. He said on the newer boats there is a mechanical valve right there that ensures there is no siphon effect going on. This allows them to use less hose. On mine, the pump & inlet are literally inches from each other. But the hose was 84" long, all the extra hose was sitting on top of the tank. If I get one of those valves, I can use the old hose & cut it down to maybe 20" or 30" easily.

[Bobby Light]

I just talked to a tech at Malibu. He said the newer boats have a mechanical anti-siphon valve in that loop in the battery compartment. If you have a newer boat, look in your battery compartment, against the wall on the right. There will be a hose that comes up thru the floor, is zip tied to the wall, then back down. On my boat, it's just a hose. He said on the newer boats there is a mechanical valve right there that ensures there is no siphon effect going on. This allows them to use less hose. On mine, the pump & inlet are literally inches from each other. But the hose was 84" long, all the extra hose was sitting on top of the tank. If I get one of those valves, I can use the old hose & cut it down to maybe 20" or 30" easily.

It's this anti siphon valve, nothing fancy.

http://www.bakesonline.com/detail.aspx?ID=994

[Bill_AirJunky]

Thanks 06. I just emailed Bret at the Yacht Club too. Hopefully this will allow me to just cut the existing hose down & use a lot less of it so there isn't so much sitting on top of the tank.

Another thought. Obviously the hose was crushed, either by people walking over it & the floor flexing, or the tank swelling. Maybe putting some blocks between the tank & floor, on either side of the hose, would keep the hose from getting crushed (scrap Trex decking or something?). Not sure how you'd install them & keep them from moving around though. Maybe thats just over-engineering it though..... over hillbilly engineering it.

[Bobby Light]

Thanks 06. I just emailed Bret at the Yacht Club too. Hopefully this will allow me to just cut the existing hose down & use a lot less of it so there isn't so much sitting on top of the tank.

Another thought. Obviously the hose was crushed, either by people walking over it & the floor flexing, or the tank swelling. Maybe putting some blocks between the tank & floor, on either side of the hose, would keep the hose from getting crushed (scrap Trex decking or something?). Not sure how you'd install them & keep them from moving around though. Maybe thats just over-engineering it though..... over hillbilly engineering it.

Since the tank is vented I wouldn't think it's swelling to much. I also don't think the floor would flex enough to inflict that kind of damage to the hose. Is your tank secured to the deck below? After installing that vented loop you shouldn't have any hose sitting ontop of your tank.

Edited March 11, 2010 by 06vlx

[Bill_AirJunky]

Yea, kinda my thoughts too. The only thing I can see securing the tank is a couple of brackets on the back, keeping it pushed forward. Hard to imagine it bouncing around in there, especially full!

Sounds like Bret has a valve in the shop. Guess I'll be heading over at lunch time to get it.

Edited March 11, 2010 by Bill_AirJunky

[Malibuzer]

This is a great post. I think I have the same issue in my boat. I have always had quite a bit of water in the hull and could never figure out where it came from. I guess I have another project to add to the list! Thanks guys.

[Bobby Light]

This is a great post. I think I have the same issue in my boat. I have always had quite a bit of water in the hull and could never figure out where it came from. I guess I have another project to add to the list! Thanks guys.

You wouldn't have the same issues as these guys as you have the "new" way of ballast plumbing from Malibu. You could have some leaking fittings, pumps, etc... It's all worth looking over.

[Bobby Light]

Yea, kinda my thoughts too. The only thing I can see securing the tank is a couple of brackets on the back, keeping it pushed forward. Hard to imagine it bouncing around in there, especially full!

Sounds like Bret has a valve in the shop. Guess I'll be heading over at lunch time to get it.

One thing I noticed on this boat vs the 06' is that that the tanks are bolted to the floor, I didn't notice that on the other boat and not sure if they were. If the tank was bouncing around it was probably doing it empty and once you crush this hose it does not go back to it's original form it just keeps getting worse. Really important not to kink or crush this stuff, especially if it's hard to get to.

Edited March 11, 2010 by 06vlx

[Bill_AirJunky]

One thing I noticed on this boat vs the 06' is that that the tanks are bolted to the floor, I didn't notice that on the other boat and not sure if they were. If the tank was bouncing around it was probably doing it empty and once you crush this hose it does not go back to it's original form it just keeps getting worse. Really important not to kink or crush this stuff, especially if it's hard to get to.

In that light, maybe the Trex blocks wedged between the tank & floor aren't such a bad idea.

[Lance B. Johnson]

In that light, maybe the Trex blocks wedged between the tank & floor aren't such a bad idea.

Bill,

When you talked to Malibu, did you get the impression that the use of all the extra hose was intentional? If so, the anti siphon valve and less hose might be a better option like you suggested.

I really think that the busted hose was do to the fact that the hoses were crossed. That is to say 2" of hose in about a 1" space. Any amount of deflection in the floor or the tank bouncing would break down the hose.

I think my plan is to order 6' of new hose from bakes along with the antisiphon valve and see what happens. My tank is bolted in and I don't think the floor deflects enough to create a problem as long as the hoses are not overlapped. If I get it in and change my mind its always easy to slide some Trex in....

We need to come up with a name for the Trex fix though....Toyota calls the pedal shim a "precision cut metal reinforcement bar"

[Bill_AirJunky]

HEhe, nice. I like it.

Yea, the Malibu tech said that the additional length of hose is by design. When I told him I was looking for any type of alternative to just installing more hose, only to potentially have to happen again, ie; a valve or pump/impeller upgrade. He mentioned this valve being in the newer boats, along with a lot less hose.

I picked up a valve at lunch from the Yacht Club. Should be an easy fix from here. Not sure I'll get a chance to do it tonite as it's raining here. But the weather report looks good for the weekend. So I'll get it installed & tested soon. I will definitely make sure the hoses don't get crossed over. And I will make a point to try & lift the ballast tank & see if there is any movement possible. If not, maybe our "composite precision tank positioning stand-offs" are not needed.

Oh, Bret showed me how the new Axis has 4 of these valves for the tanks on it. So it's definitely a move Malibu has made for some reason...... regardless of whether or not they have seen this problem in particular.

Edited March 11, 2010 by Bill_AirJunky

[Lance B. Johnson]

HEhe, nice. I like it.

Yea, the Malibu tech said that the additional length of hose is by design. When I told him I was looking for any type of alternative to just installing more hose, only to potentially have to happen again, ie; a valve or pump/impeller upgrade. He mentioned this valve being in the newer boats, along with a lot less hose.

I picked up a valve at lunch from the Yacht Club. Should be an easy fix from here. Not sure I'll get a chance to do it tonite as it's raining here. But the weather report looks good for the weekend. So I'll get it installed & tested soon. I will definitely make sure the hoses don't get crossed over. And I will make a point to try & lift the ballast tank & see if there is any movement possible. If not, maybe our "composite precision tank positioning stand-offs" are not needed.

Oh, Bret showed me how the new Axis has 4 of these valves for the tanks on it. So it's definitely a move Malibu has made for some reason...... regardless of whether or not they have seen this problem in particular.

Ya keep me posted. I am placing the order soon.

[yabetcha]

My 2006 VRide has the anti-siphon valve in the observer storage, so I replaced the hose from the pump to the anti-siphon.

[Malibuzer]

My 2006 VRide has the anti-siphon valve in the observer storage, so I replaced the hose from the pump to the anti-siphon.

Mine is the same way. The boat is in storage, is there any hose that goes above the tank that could leak still?

[Bill_AirJunky]

My 2006 VRide has the anti-siphon valve in the observer storage, so I replaced the hose from the pump to the anti-siphon.

So the problem happened anyway. Any chance you could tell if the hoses were crossed? Or ideas about how to resolve it once & for good?

[yabetcha]

Bill,

My hoses were definitely crossed so the 2" diameter of hose was compressed in the 1" of space above the tank and the floor causing them to crush and split. When I replaced the hose I ran them parallel so they wouldn't cross...it would have been pretty hard to cross them now because there just isn't room.

For others with newer models, I don't think you're having the same problem. The hulls are deeper and there's several inches of space above the midship ballast tank.

[Lance B. Johnson]

My 2006 VRide has the anti-siphon valve in the observer storage, so I replaced the hose from the pump to the anti-siphon.

Good to know.

[timbird5]

My 06 VRide ballast starts to fill up with water as soon as I put it in the water. Thought it must be the prop seal, but now I'm thinking it could the pump seal?

No water coming over the top of the ballast as many of you are experiancing.