How site has helped me w my boat maintenance (2001 Sunsetter LXI)

[formulaben]

You'll only get voltage for a couple seconds on key up.  So long as you're taking that into account and it still doesn't work then it could be a bad relay.  Swap the fuel relay with one of the others and see if it changes.

[gary_tenison]

thats a good point...i may have been late to get a reading...is the relay underneath the metal plate at the back of the engine? I took off the big composite box on the rear of the engine and unfortunately it looks like the relays are under the metal plate which was under that box...had hoped it would be easier to reach...

[gary_tenison]

OK...PUMP IS GETTING THE 2 SEC PRIME... so its a bad pump...I ordered new pump kit on skidim.  BTW...is the relay under that metal plate? I want to buy a spare to keep in my toolbox... thanks.

[formulaben]

14 hours ago, gary_tenison said:

OK...PUMP IS GETTING THE 2 SEC PRIME... so its a bad pump...

Food for thought...if the pump runs at key up but won't come on during start it could be your oil pressure switch.

 

INDMAR (CHEVY) ENGINE START UP SEQUENCE

Fuel Rail Pressurization:

When you first turn the key to the "on" position (aka “key up”), the fuel pump will run for 2 seconds pressurizing the fuel rails. There is a Schrader valve on the fuel rail near and if you measure the pressure there after the pump runs, you should see between 40-42 pounds of pressure. The reading will go to 38-40 pounds nominal once the engine is running. Test by attaching a fuel pressure gauge to the fuel rail at the shrader valve, on TPI and LT1 engines its located on the pass side fuel rail.

Initial Crank Action:

If you then rotate the key to the start position the engine will rotate.  Once the oil pressure has reached 4 PSI, the oil pressure switch will close allowing the fuel pump to run.  The crank position sensor will send a string of pulses to the ECM in response to the engine being rotated by the starter. These pulses continue as long as the engine turns (both starting and running) and if they are not present, the engine will not run.

ECM Reaction:

If the ECM sees oil pressure greater than 4 PSI and the reference pulses from the distributor, it will energize the injector drivers which will begin pulsing the injectors on for 4 ms (milliseconds) periods. The ECM will also pull in the fuel pump relay in effect paralleling it electrically with the oil pressure switch.  The ECM also monitors the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor mounted on the throttle body assembly) and wants to see .54 volts at this time. If it sees more than 0.54 volts, it will assume the engine is flooded.  Assuming the ignition module is good the engine will "catch".

Engine "Catches":

When the engine catches, the MAF sends a signal to the ECM advising that air is flowing and also just how much air is being pulled through to the intake manifold. The ECM takes note of the amount of air being consumed and adjusts the injector pulse width to around 2.2 ms nominally so as to attain a proper air/fuel mixture to insure combustion.  The engine should show an initial idle speed of around 900-1100 RPM and then slowly diminish to 600-700 RPM.  If this does not happen, the Idle Air Mixture valve may be mis-adjusted. Alternatively, there may be a leak in the intake manifold or another vacuum leak may be present. Listen for hissing sounds---there should be none.

ECM Mode:

The engine will now be in Open Loop mode meaning that the ECM is controlling the air/fuel mixture by referencing values stored in memory.  Once the Oxygen sensor <if you have Cats> reaches operating temperature of several hundred degrees, the Manifold Air Temperature (MAT) sensor shows an intake air temperature of more than 140 degrees and the Engine Coolant Temperature (ECT) has reached 160 degrees, the computer will switch to closed loop mode meaning the Oxygen sensor's output is examined along with the MAT and ECT outputs and the ECM adjusts the injector pulse widths (more "on time" or less "on time") to constantly strive for a 14.7:1 air/fuel mixture which is the best mixture to hold down pollution.

[gary_tenison]

ok thx

[gary_tenison]

Ok - I completed my round of maintenance and work to bring my boat back to "like new" level... I learned a few things that I want to share with the members of this site that may also have a 2001 era Malibu Sunsetter LXI or equivalent...As you can see from the first post on this long running thread, I have owned this boat since I bought it new in 2001 at the Detroit boat show. It's been an amazing boat for our family as I raised four kids on it, and many of their friends. For the last three years it has not been used and sat in storage.

First, make certain that you run stabil in the boat during the Fall so that your last day on the lake leaves Stabil in your fuel injectors, rail and lines. I must have failed to do that 3 years ago so I ended up pumping all the fuel out of the tank and carrying it 5 gallons at a time to a local auto shop that was willing to pour it in their collection tank. I used a little 12V pump from Amazon, it was tiny and used 5/16" lines I think but I just fed the line into the tank through the fill port and pumped it all out. I just connected its wires to a little emergency 12v jump start battery I have.

My fuel pump had also given up the ghost. These fuel pumps are known to die and mine had 650 hours or so on it. I suspect it may have kept going a while longer but I think the old fuel clogged it up inside. Remember that if your diagnosing the fuel pump, it only gets power for two seconds on initial key up. So you need someone to turn your key to the right while you use a voltmeter to verify that the pump is seeing 12V at the pump connection. If the pump doesn't whine on key turn, and is seeing the 12V, then the pump is bad.

I bought the pump replacement kit from SkiDim...I think it was $464 bucks...seems like a lot. But the pump was a fairly easy changeout. Things to note. The old pump had a stupid little filter screen  in a small port at the inlet side. The new pump is made differently and doesn't suffer from this problem. However, this pump has a 1/2" (push on) inlet port while the old OEM pump has a 3/8" threaded inlet port. So that was a problem since the 3/8" supply line out of the tank needs to be changed to 1/2". I simply bought a 3/8" to 1/2" straight barbed hose adapter. Make sure you buy hose clamps for 3/8" and 1/2" applications so you have plenty to hand. So I cut the fuel line between the tank and the rear fuel filter and inserted the barbed adapter, then inserted a new 1/2" fuel filter, then new 1/2" line up to the fuel pump. The old fuel lines are clamped to the boat internally and you cannot pull them out. You would need to pull the fuel tank out and the mufflers. It isn't worth it. I simply ran the new 1/2" fuel line along the old ones and zipped them to the old lines. Then clamped the new line to the bottom of the new pump.

The top of the pump needs an adapter between the existing high pressure fuel rail supply line and the new pump top (outlet). This adapter is included in the kit. I used a thread sealant, painted the threads, and screwed it onto the old hose and onto the top (outlet port) of the new fuel pump. You also need to remove the old (fuel return line) threaded adapter from the old pump clamp body. It sticks out from the bottom of the bracket/body that the old pump mounts on. When you pull that bracket off the engine, you can get that port out. Put thread sealant on it and install it on the new bracket body that came in the kit. You can then use the existing 3/8" fuel return line and press it onto that barb and hose clamp it down. So your fuel return line to tank remains the same, just reuse it. Throw out the old bracket and the little metal return tube that was on it...you don't use that anymore.

The electric connector on the new pump DOES NOT fit the existing 2001 Malibu fuel pump (boat side) electric connector. Just cut off the old (boat side) electric connector and cut off the new connector and connect the two electric lines with heat sealing waterproof connector. Use the little ring connectors on the new line to connect to the top of the new pump. I then painted those terminals (on top of the pump) with liquid electrical tape.

I was concerned about the state of the fuel injectors because I found some fuel had leaked into my oil pan. If you check your oil, and you see it has become too full (on the dipstick), you may find that it smells like fuel. If your fuel injectors get gummed up with old fuel they may stick and not seal properly, allowing fuel to leak down into the cylinders and make its way to the oil pan. This is a common old motorcycle carb issue, so I was not surprised this happened on my boat. So I pulled the fuel injectors, and connected each, one at a time, to a short length of fuel hose on the inlet side (carefully remove the O-rings first), put some brake cleaner (or carb cleaner) into the end of the hose (holding vertically), and connected a small 9V radio battery to the fuel injector electrical prongs with alligator clips, and let the carb cleaner run through as I tapped one of the lines to the battery intermittently. I found that if I put my mouth over the top of the tube and blew into the tube to create a bit if pressure, it ran through the injectors pretty easily, making a nice spray pattern. I re-lubed the O-rings and put them back on the injectors and reinstalled them. A WORD OF CAUTION HERE>  When I unscrewed the fuel rail bolts, two on each side of the fuel rail, I thought that the little spacer (a black metal tube) on the back of the fuel rail that the fuel rail bolt goes through, was a part of the engine. It was painted black and seemed like a permanent mount. It is NOT and when I lifted up the fuel rail and popped the fuel injectors up out of their holes, one of those spacers then dropped down and narrowly missed falling down into a fuel injector port. I nearly had a heart attack. Pull these spacers out from behind the rail as you pull each bolt out. Do NOT let them fall into your engine.

I also changed the drive belt, all plugs, oil, filter, tranny fluid, and the Indmar water hoses available on Bakes and SkiDim. The drive belt is a problem. I couldn't get it on without unscrewing the entire bracket which the alternator is attached too...normally, in a car, you can loosen the alternator adjustment bolt, press the alternator in close, and get the belt over the pully. I couldn't do it. I had to take the bolts out of the bracket that mounts the alt to the engine, and then I got the belt over it as I supported it in my right hand, then reattached the entire bracket.

I had also suffered from the dreaded HDS box leak for years, the last few years before storage it was so bad that I had to pump water out at every stop (as I settled back to even keel) or the boat would probably have sunk. Several Malibu dealers had attempted to fix and it was never fixed right. So I wanted to fix it right myself. First,  I filled the boat with water (on the trailer) to see where it was leaking out. It was only coming out at the shaft hole under the HDS box. Getting the lid/cover off the top was a challenge. It was well glued on and screwed on. I finally used a dremel cutting wheel. Holding the dremel vertically with cutting wheel pointed down, I just got the wheel under a side edge of the plastic cover, and carefully dug out a slot/opening. I went to Home Depot and in the tool section they had these little blue metal crow bars...these are small (palm/hand sized), there were a set of three in a plastic case hanging on the wall. They were PERFECT. I got an edge inserted into the slot I had dug out with the dremel wheel and was able to pry around the top and pop off the cover. As expected the inside of the Box was filled with crap repairs, bad fiberglass and lots of silicon. It was a mess. I spent DAYS contorting myself to reach in there and scrape and chip out the old repairs.  Once I got all the crap repairs scrapped and chiseled out, I filled the boat with water again. It was clearly coming in along the back of the HDS box, along the BOTTOM edge of the chamber. I could even see old fiberglass seal material had a crack in it at the juncture. It didn't look like so MUCH water could run thru those cracks, and along the seams,  but it DOES.

I did some research and decided to use PLEXUS MA-530 (I think I also read somewhere on this site that Plexus was the recommended Warranty repair too) . I went to Jamestown Distributors online and bought a Plexus MA-530 applicator (looks like a standard caulking gun but can caulk the two cylinders that MA530 comes in - its a two part fast acting apoxy). Applicator gun was about $80 bucks and a canister of MA530 was $100 bucks. I bought two canisters thinking I would need it but I didn't...I didn't even use all of one canister. Be SURE to buy the proper mixing nozzle with the canister. You buy the mixing nozzle and it mixes the two parts as you apply the MA530. I pumped it in and rubbed it in tight along edges with my hand (in a rubber glove)...be careful not to breath too much of this...wow it has a strong smell.

I later verified the leak was fixed. Then went to reseal the cover. Lesson learned. USE stainless steel hex head SHEET METAL SCREWS. Squirt your sealant on the screw, and liberally around edge of box lid,  and carefully screw in. A self tapping (not self drilling - don't use the ones with drilling blades on bottom tip) sheet metal screw has large threads and is perfect for fiberglass. But only snug them up. A small screw in fiberglass can take about 6 lbs of torque. Do NOT overtighten. I went to Bold Depot and bought several sizes online. If you strip one out, go to next bigger size. You will probably find that some of your existing screw holes were already stripped out by a poor boat shop repair or prior owner. This lid can SINK your boat if not well sealed and held down. Be careful here.

I then went up to Lake George...its a 5 hour drive but I LOVE that lake and really wanted to check out the boat. I spent a week up there and loved it. Leak fixed. However, I had a slight leak along back edge of cover lid...hence all the later knowledge about sheet metal screws etc... And I found my dash units (speedo etc) were cutting in and out. I got underneath the drivers sidewall (just forward and under the throttle area) to access the ground bar, and cleaned ground wire and terminals with sand paper. This fixed that issue.

I also, while on water, verified oil level and tranny oil levels were correct, no fuel leaks anywhere, and shaft seal correct. I had repacked shaft nut while at home too. I also bought a great high power polisher and polished the hell out of the boat. I spent about a month doing all this and it shows. Also did the teak swim platform and many other repairs...

Boat is PERFECT AGAIN. I love my Malibu. Its been mine for 19 years and its still beautiful. Using THIS site, you can do all your maintenance and DO IT RIGHT!!! Boat shops will let you down over and over again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[John I.]

As the original owner of an '01 SLXi, I appreciate your detailed posts! 

[gary_tenison]

OK...I finally put a stereo in this baby...for anyone following this string, see my stereo post in "New Stereo for my 2001 Sunsetter LXI"...I cant believe how nice it sounds. It will be amazing on the water...

 

Also, I bought the gas shocks on bakesonline for the glovebox and the rear deck lid...both of which no longer stay up on their own...going to replace this weekend along with another new steering cable. I guess I waited too long to fix that leaking HDS box and I wicked water into that cable again. I really hate that box.

 

[gary_tenison]

Ok...still had an issue with gauges not turning on. So...

I cleaned my ground bar under the dash, but what really seemed to fix it was cutting out the two inline glass fuses from under the dash...I tried to reuse the fuse holders, but they broke when I opened them. They were cheap as hell. I bought new inline fuses from home depot and installed them with crimp on waterproof heat shrink...wasn't fun under there but got it done. Seems to have fixed the gauges now.  In reading many posts, not just on this website, inline fuses like that are likely culprits for electrical issues.

If that hadnt fixed it, my next step would have been to take off my medallion 1600 computer, take a heat gun to it to get it opened up, and then resolder the pin1 line of pins per another post on Malibucrew.  In any case, it seems to be fixed now.

[gary_tenison]

Today I replaced my steering cable again. On my 2001 sunsetter LXI I needed a 19' teleflex which I bought on bakes. I have done this three times now...twice on my boat and once on a friends boat. The first time I did this it took me over three hours with a friend. This time I did it alone and it took me less than 2 hours. So key lessons learned...

1. Turn wheel so that tiller arm of rudder is as far forward as possible to help access.

2. Get a small socket wrench with a 1/2" socket. And a 9/16" open ended wrench. Laying on your belly from the passenger side, hold the socket in left hand and place on the BOTTOM nut. Insert wrench on middle section of the verticle bolt assembly to keep it from turning...unscrew the bottom nut.

3. push down on cable end so that it bends and when cable end clears the bottom of the bolt, move tiller arm out of way. 

4. unscrew big silver cable nut which is closest to you. The threads of the cable sleeve my turn, if so, use a wrench to tighten down on the lock nut in front of it and see it that stops it from turning, if nut, use a pipe wrench on it to hold it.

5. Under dash, unscrew the 4 nuts holding the steering rack to the steering wheel.Slide the rack out. Follow the cable down to the floor penetration. Grab hold of the cable and pull it out about 1-2 feet. Go back to the rudder end and tie a rope to the end of the cable arm. Go back up front and pull the cable through. When the big nut from the cable arm nears the hole, the nut may catch on the edge of the hole and stick...I grabbed an open ended wrench and inserted it in the hole and slide it over the cable so I could push the cable down as I pulled the cable out. It kept the big nut away from the edge of the hole and it pulled right out. There are lots of cables and wires in that hole and its a darn mess. I really wish they had made a separate hole for the cable...

6. Unite the rope and tie it to the end of the new cable, feed it back through the hole carefully...as the cable nears the engine bay it will probably get stuck...there is a big cluster of wires and things under there. It helps to unscrew the little vent plate thats in the engine bay sidewall and then insert your arm as far up that hole as possible, grabbing the rope and jerking it a few times to get the cable end through... once you clear that spot, it may catch again as it exits the sidewall into the engine bay a bit further aft...again reach your hand in and help it around the corner into the engine bay... now your home free.  All the extra time is really spent jerking around to get the cable to run through. Now it steers with finger tips again. Also played my new stereo the whole time. Love it.

 

[Eagleboy99]

CUrious:  why the third cable replacement?

[justgary]

1 hour ago, Eagleboy99 said:

CUrious:  why the third cable replacement?

My guess is too much water in the bilge. 

[gary_tenison]

As I explained, one of those replacements was for a friends boat. And my second replacement on my boat was due to a bad HDS leak, soaked my cable and eventually it seized up. But in my latest round of extensive maintenence, I seem to have fixed HDS. Seems dry now. Thx

Edited November 18, 2019 by gary_tenison

[gary_tenison]

Providing an update here...recently, I replaced the little wood inserts on my dashboard. Bought 3 of four pieces from Great Lakes Skipper. Unfortunately, the left lower switch panel could not be found...I ending up removing the panel and coating with spar varnish to at least make it shiney again. Best way to remove the switch panels is to carefully unscrew them, and push them out from behind. Then, while holding them, its easy to use your fingernails to push down the switch tabs from the backside of the panel and carefully push them out of the switch plate. I also bought NEW switch tops because some of the white lettering had rubbed off the switches over the years...I think I ordered from Bakes. They were an exact match and about 5 bucks a piece. 

Having fun with the new stereo too...

[gary_tenison]

Update to my boat repair log here...I had continuous instrument panel issues....speedo cutting out. Drive me crazy. Replaced the little in line dash fuses. Cleaned ground bar and all connections, and many other attempted repairs...none of which worked. Finally I took the medallion computer off the bottom of the dash, used a heat gun to take the lid off, and resoldered the connection pins inside...basically, its the two pin sets that the two cables are connected too under the dash. So look where the cable ports are on the medallion, and once inside, simply hold a hot solder iron to each pin...when you see the solder melt and ripple, you finished that one, now move to the next one. 

This is the definitive answer to your speedo cutting outo or working intermittently on these circa 2001 sunsetter LXI's...anyhow, I went out four or five trips after this repair and never experienced another issue the instrument panel. Just wanted to record it for anyone with this boat reading my log.

 

 

[gary_tenison]

Posting learnings from my other thread to keep at least a "summary" of all maintenance in this log of my Sunsetter LXI. 

My boat has Rochester fuel injector  17124187, 26lb, 12.3 Ohms.  This came as OE on my boat which has a fuel injected Monsoon. I bought the boat new in '01 and never changed them since. I also have seen others state that their boat came with Rochester 17095004,  24.4lb 12.5 Ohm, or Rochester 17121068 24lb, 12.1 Ohm.  This is known as a high or "saturated" resistance injector. These are all closely sized so I suspect all may be ok here. It's annoying trying to decide what to buy because their specs mostly aren't posted...

Someone referred me to Rockauto and I saw  the FJ164 as a potential fit. I bought 2 of these for spares and will send all my old injectors out to be repaired at  InjectorRX. Last year,  I had removed  them and cleaned them by hand with a 9 volt battery and carb cleaner...but I didn't replace o-rings then and although my cleaning effort seemed to work, I want a pro to do it and also get the new o-rings installed. I will post results.

Also, I bought a new starter and new alternator and I will replace them as preventive maintenance. The boat is 20 years old now and I think its time, before they drop me in the middle of the lake one day. I bought both on Amazon. I'll also post brief updates on lessons learned for those. BTW, I also bought a new ignition module to carry around...in my 20 years of owning this boat,  this module has gone out twice, stranding me on the lake - once caused by a bad coil, the other - I don't know.

[UWSkier]

I just wanna say that I love this thread and your enthusiasm!

[SevernRat]

This thread is truly epic. I have a 2003 Sunsetter LXI and will likely read this thread a dozen times to catch all the info in it!

Friend of mine just mentioned that he thought he heard a bit of a misfire from my boat when I left his place. Going to replace the spark plugs and wires to see if that does the trick. I picked the boat up this spring from the previous owner and don't know much about what maintenance was done prior. Previous owner was the second owner of the boat. Only maintenance I know he did was the HDS box leak, and so far that's looking ok. 

Likely will replace the oil/filter and impeller soon too.

[justgary]

7 minutes ago, SevernRat said:

Going to replace the spark plugs and wires to see if that does the trick.

In my opinion, the cap and rotor are even more suspect, so change them also.  Get a set with brass contacts rather than aluminum.

[SevernRat]

18 minutes ago, justgary said:

In my opinion, the cap and rotor are even more suspect, so change them also.  Get a set with brass contacts rather than aluminum.

ok. Will do. Do I just call a parts store and find the part numbers?

One thing to note for my boat is that the engine is actually out of a 1997 Malibu Echelon. It's the 5.7L Mercruiser Scorpion.

 

[gary_tenison]

It's been a long time since I logged in so I just now saw thee last few comments. Sorry I wasn't timely. Thanks for the nice comments.  Belatedly I did respond to a few old emails.