Sangar, boat or submarine?

[Sandbagger]

You are right, typically water cannot get more dense but under great pressure or depth that is what it seams to do. That is why at great depths an object might achieve greater bouyancy. Remember we are dealing with h20 (hydrogen and oxygen), being a gas, can be compressed under pressure. Density is the force that effects bouyancy. Water pressure from depth would not effect bouyancy as it is generally putting force on all sides of an object.

I really doubt this would have effected the floatability of the boat in question though. It sank because its weight was greater than the weight of the water it was displacing. Either it was faulty design or they had something in the boat (like lead weight or sand) that inceased its neutral bouyancy density beyond its original design specifications. Perhaps a current could have helped take her down as well.

Of course this is only my opinion and I am far from an expert in physics.

[brazosvet]

Quick! Somebody call Myth Busters!

[jesutton3]

You are right, typically water cannot get more dense but under great pressure or depth that is what it seams to do. That is why at great depths an object might achieve greater bouyancy. Remember we are dealing with h20 (hydrogen and oxygen), being a gas, can be compressed under pressure.

They are both gas but I would like you to show me someone or something that can compress water.

[RTS]

Water can be compressed. But the pressure that is required to accomplish this is very large compared to the 'compression' that you would get.

As a matter of fact, you can compress just about anything, as all matter is composed of a collection of atoms (molecules), and even though they may seem solid, the atoms are relatively far apart, with empty space between them. But because of the forces between the molecules, different molecules resist being forced together to varying degrees.

Because this force (the force resisting forcing the molecules together) is so great in a stable molecule like water, water is generally regarded (from a fluid dynamics perspective) as an incompressible liquid.

It's crazy, I know....but true

And sandbagger is right, water at the bottom of the ocean is compressed by the water on top of it, and is therefore more dense...technically speaking. However, the difference in the density of the water at the bottom and the top of the ocean is very small. Very, very small.

But as far as density differences playing any role in the bouyancy of a boat in a river, or under the river, as the case may be, it would not be a factor.

Edited May 10, 2008 by rts

[Hwood]

Density is the force that effects bouyancy. Water pressure from depth would not effect bouyancy as it is generally putting force on all sides of an object.

Well density is not a force either, but I do agree with the pressure acting on all sides of the object.

OBVIOUSLY current and the mud bottom had something to do with this story if it took how many barrels to float it??? You could do the math on those barrels if you knew exactly what they were and how much air was in them, could probably lift 3 Sangers off the bottom if they weren't stuck.

The C.G. weight rating is just based on length/width and dividing by an average to give you the # of people or just the straight weight. The owner is also an idiot for loading his boat down with thousands of pounds of weight, in a brand new boat with a presumably NOT broken in engine, bat turning (with a loaded boat) into his own wake, also presumably had a few beverages in him... He would have ended up burning a ton of oil down the road anyways.

[RTS]

[

The owner is also an idiot for loading his boat down with thousands of pounds of weight, in a brand new boat with a presumably NOT broken in engine, bat turning (with a loaded boat) into his own wake, also presumably had a few beverages in him... He would have ended up burning a ton of oil down the road anyways.

It depends on what you load your boat with. When a boat begins to sink, people jump off, water ballast becomes neutrally bouyant (unless it's compressed....just kidding) and gasoline actually tries to keep the boat up, as it's less dense than water.

My guess is the boat had to be A) loaded with weight other than water or people or B) got one end stuck in the mud and the currrent forced the other end down C) boat does not meet Coast Guard requirements or D) some combination of the three.

Edited May 9, 2008 by rts

[68Slalom]

WOW, what happened to the sunk boat topic Good stuff!

Edit: that was before you posted rts!!

Edited May 9, 2008 by 68Slalom

[areamike]

I've had about enough of all this. You guys are giving me a friggin' Aneurysm.

[VinRLX]

I've had about enough of all this. You guys are giving me a friggin' Aneurysm.

[brazosvet]

The answer is C!

I'm telling you this because I know the facts, and I am not guessing about possibilities. No current, no mud, and no lead.

[txwakejunkie]

Im going with A and C.

[Sandbagger]

I've had about enough of all this. You guys are giving me a friggin' Aneurysm.

Sorry but aneurysm's are common when dealing with water depth, water pressure and maybe even water density, LOL.

[doughickey]

OK, water won't compress..... but flotation material WILL compress. If the boat is down 15 feet, that's the equivalent of 1/2 of an atmosphere. So, if the flotation material is compressible (magine a balloon), then the balloon would get smaller. At 33 feet, a balloon would be 1/2 of it's original size......so at 15 feet, a balloon would be 3/4 of it's size..... therefore only 3/4 of it's buoyancy capability. Archimedes Principal.

So, I know, the bouyancy material was probably styrofoam of some sort.... it WILL compress to some extent....reducing the the water it displaces.... therfore reducing it's buoyancy capability.

I too vote for sticky bottom theory..... with maybe a bit of added weight that got removed before officials folks found out.

[99response]

I'm guessing the flotation foam injected into the boat never cured properly and provided no flotation, or perhaps not nearly enough was injected.

-Chris

[Birm]

Who invited the Rocket Scientists into this discussion?

PV=nrt

[GeorgeWBush]

Wow what happened here . I can't believe I said that everything will become neutrally buoyant given enough depth. I was typing faster than I was thinking. I've been out of school too long to start such topics. I'm changing my vote, it was probably just was a Friday boat.

[RTS]

Who invited the Rocket Scientists into this discussion?

PV=nrt

Ahhh...the Ideal Gas Law...man, that takes me back

[Birm]

Who invited the Rocket Scientists into this discussion?

PV=nrt

Ahhh...the Ideal Gas Law...man, that takes me back

Can we change the name of this forum to The Malibu Geek Crew?

[jjackkrash]

Last year on Lake Lavon on a windy, choppy day we happened upon an older 16-18 foot i/o that had capsized near the dam with four very large gentlemen sitting on the hull, and five very large ladies swimming for shore, wrangling about 7-8 or so kids of various sizes and ages along with them, with enough gear to fill a u-haul floating everywhere. I am betting max capacity on that boat was 4 to 6 people and that they had easily trippled the max weight capacity.

I called out and asked if they were alright and if help was coming, and a guy said "yeah, we're alright. I just can't figure our why it tipped over." "Must be a design defect," was my reply.

[areamike]

Last year on Lake Lavon on a windy, choppy day we happened upon an older 16-18 foot i/o that had capsized near the dam with four very large gentlemen sitting on the hull, and five very large ladies swimming for shore, wrangling about 7-8 or so kids of various sizes and ages along with them, with enough gear to fill a u-haul floating everywhere. I am betting max capacity on that boat was 4 to 6 people and that they had easily trippled the max weight capacity.

I called out and asked if they were alright and if help was coming, and a guy said "yeah, we're alright. I just can't figure our why it tipped over." "Must be a design defect," was my reply.

it's a brain defect. It's called IDIOT

[Madmanacrossthewater]

Last year on Lake Lavon on a windy, choppy day we happened upon an older 16-18 foot i/o that had capsized near the dam with four very large gentlemen sitting on the hull, and five very large ladies swimming for shore, wrangling about 7-8 or so kids of various sizes and ages along with them, with enough gear to fill a u-haul floating everywhere. I am betting max capacity on that boat was 4 to 6 people and that they had easily trippled the max weight capacity.

I called out and asked if they were alright and if help was coming, and a guy said "yeah, we're alright. I just can't figure our why it tipped over." "Must be a design defect," was my reply.

Levon sells cartoon balloons in town

His family business thrives

Jesus blows up balloons all day

Sits on the porch swing watching them fly

Sorry, I couldn't help it.