Won't start after Oil/Fuel filter plug change

[25lsvwakesetter]

Thaaank you!

[25lsvwakesetter]

No power to the relay (I think I have the right one-the one with the grey wire analso a green wire with a white strip) Set the multimeter to 50 DC V and had my son turn the key...No power..

1. What now? ECM?

2. AHHHHHHHH!

[electricjohn]

Do the test right at the fuel pump. The grey wire is positve, the black is negative. The 2 wires you mention are both positve so you won't get a voltage there. Stay away fron the green/white wire for now.

Edited May 7, 2008 by electricjohn

[25lsvwakesetter]

Do the test right at the fuel pump. The grey wire is positve, the black is negative. The 2 wires you mention are both positve so you won't get a voltage there. Stay away fron the green/white wire for now.

Tested..No power and replaced the relay....

I'm starting to think this is going to be expensive....

[MalibuTime]

Do the test right at the fuel pump. The grey wire is positve, the black is negative. The 2 wires you mention are both positve so you won't get a voltage there. Stay away fron the green/white wire for now.

Tested..No power and replaced the relay....

I'm starting to think this is going to be expensive....

So you have probably done more than we are reading, and it sounds like you are maybe tearing out some hair. Just to put a fresh set of eyes on this. If you are not getting power to the relay, I also would suggest methodically tracing the wiring back, from the relay, checking all connections for being secure. Remember, you got it to start and then it wouldn't, so that is intermittant, a symptom of loose connections. Are all of the wires going into and out of the ECM secured? Another thing to check is that the fuel pump still runs. I did not see where you mention directly connecting power to the fuel pump, bypassing the relay (although, if the relay is not switching, then I would not check this until you are done tracing wires) I only mention testing the pump independantly because sometimes you can have two things in the same system go bad (wiring connections, ECM and /or the actual pump) Good luck.

[electricjohn]

OK, there is a fuel pump fuse too. If you follow the pink wire from the fuel pump relay, you will eventually get to a fuse. Check that fuse. If there are two pink wires (which according to my sketches, my relay has), follow the thicker one. It is the protection of the power that goes to the pump (via the relay). Also, the green/white wire you seen going to the relay is the power from the ECM to turn the fuel pump relay on.

[25lsvwakesetter]

OK, there is a fuel pump fuse too. If you follow the pink wire from the fuel pump relay, you will eventually get to a fuse. Check that fuse. If there are two pink wires (which according to my sketches, my relay has), follow the thicker one. It is the protection of the power that goes to the pump (via the relay). Also, the green/white wire you seen going to the relay is the power from the ECM to turn the fuel pump relay on.

Thanks guys appreciate the help.

Blackpearl--I have on my list to pull a spare battery and hook it up to make sure the pump is operating(probably should have started there first).

Electricjohn- I will trace the pink wire back to a fuse. Is this the fuse that is one of three that is hanging from the front side of the engine (V-Drive) over by the oil drain hose that is hanging?

Edited May 8, 2008 by 25lsvwakesetter

[electricjohn]

Yup, one of those 3 fuses is the fuel pump fuse. Good luck

[25lsvwakesetter]

Yup, one of those 3 fuses is the fuel pump fuse. Good luck

Checked them last night...all good... Why is there no power to the fuel pump relay? Very frustrating...

[VinRLX]

Ok, at the risk of being the canon plug plugger. . .

Do you know where your canon plug is? Port side, toward front of motor. Electrical plug held on by worm clamp. Turn the key on and wiggle this plug.

Another easy check: put the throttle in and out of F/N/R several times and return to neutral. Try starting.

[25lsvwakesetter]

Ok, at the risk of being the canon plug plugger. . .

Do you know where your canon plug is? Port side, toward front of motor. Electrical plug held on by worm clamp. Turn the key on and wiggle this plug.

Another easy check: put the throttle in and out of F/N/R several times and return to neutral. Try starting.

I'll try it. Thanks.. It's supposed to be in the mid 80's to low 90's next week. I've got to get this repaired!

[25lsvwakesetter]

Update... Ran a battery directly to pump and it charged just like it should.

I am getting no power to the pump...Changed out relay on fuel relay. Nothing. All fuses in good shape. Not exactly sure what the cannon plug is but there are only a couple on the port side of the engine..Wiggled them.

Anything else I can try?

Edited May 10, 2008 by 25lsvwakesetter

[Sixball]

Check the signal from the oil pressure sender I think near the oil filter. If It sticks which I have seen. It will cut the power to the fuel pump It is an electric signal not a oil pressure. It works off oil pressure to shut the power down with the loss of oil pressure. It has one wire I have seen the unit stick inside and no signal. you don't need to buy a new one just unscrew it and flush it with a good cleaner or gas will work. I don't know what Malibu call the little sender unit but I know it will shut power down to the fuel pump.

[25lsvwakesetter]

Check the signal from the oil pressure sender I think near the oil filter. If It sticks which I have seen. It will cut the power to the fuel pump It is an electric signal not a oil pressure. It works off oil pressure to shut the power down with the loss of oil pressure. It has one wire I have seen the unit stick inside and no signal. you don't need to buy a new one just unscrew it and flush it with a good cleaner or gas will work. I don't know what Malibu call the little sender unit but I know it will shut power down to the fuel pump.

I'd love to try it..Can you give me more of an idea what it will look like?

[electricjohn]

Update... Ran a battery directly to pump and it charged just like it should.

Not exactly sure what the cannon plug is but there are only a couple on the port side of the engine..Wiggled them.

It is a large plug mounted on the motor, where all the wires from the dash connect to the motor. Normally refered to as the Engine/Instrument harness connector, but us boaters call it the cannon plug.

[25lsvwakesetter]

Update... Ran a battery directly to pump and it charged just like it should.

Not exactly sure what the cannon plug is but there are only a couple on the port side of the engine..Wiggled them.

It is a large plug mounted on the motor, where all the wires from the dash connect to the motor. Normally refered to as the Engine/Instrument harness connector, but us boaters call it the cannon plug.

I am pretty sure I have the right one..kind of large, flat, purple ring, multiple wires running into it originating from a wire loom coming in from a hole low on the starboard side of the engine(on mine) next to the fuel tank, running up next to the fuel pump, over the main wiring harness behind the ECM, fuel pump/starter/efi relays and terminating on the port side of the engine?

Edited May 10, 2008 by 25lsvwakesetter

[electricjohn]

My plug is round, about 1 1/4" in diameter, held together with a hose clamp. The wiring to the dash (in black plastic corragated tubing) goes right to the floor of the engine room and follows a starboard side stringer toward the dash. They are run with the battery wires. Remember though, I have a direct drive.

[VinRLX]

As John described for the canon plug. Also, it is the only electrical plug that I know of that is secured with a clamp ring. Unplug it, re-plug it.

Sixball has an interesting possibility. I wonder if you bumped a connection loose when you were working on it???

[25lsvwakesetter]

As John described for the canon plug. Also, it is the only electrical plug that I know of that is secured with a clamp ring. Unplug it, re-plug it.

Sixball has an interesting possibility. I wonder if you bumped a connection loose when you were working on it???

OK all..First of all I appreciate very much all of the help...At the very least I have learned a great deal about this engine.

However I am getting close to the end of what I can do to get this thing running.

To recap:

1. The fuel pump ran perfectly prior to changing the fuel filter, oil, oil filter, and plugs.

2. The fuel pump stopped running directly after the maintenance was finished. I went in the house for about 25 minutes and tried restarting the fuel pump worked fine again.

3. I took the boat to the river for a test run and the fuel pump was not functioning again and hasn't functioned since (except for when I ran power directly to it from a battery).

4. Replaced fuel filter relay.

5. Checked and rechecked all connections. All are secure.

6. Ran power directly to the pump terminals. It works properly.

7. I have no power at the fuel pump terminals coming from the fuel pump relay.

8. I believe my engine's version of a cannon plug has been checked but I cannot be 100% sure as mine appears different from other's description.

9 The last thing/suggestion I have been given was to unscrew the oil pressure sender and clean it out as can clog and cut power to the fuel pump. I am not sure what I am looking for on this one.

Other than #9 I believe I have checked everything we have come up with. I have a feeling that the ECM is playing a part in this but can't be sure.

I know this thread is getting a little stale and it seems all suggestions possible have be given so unless anyone has anything else?

Thanks,

Jeff

[MalibuTime]

As John described for the canon plug. Also, it is the only electrical plug that I know of that is secured with a clamp ring. Unplug it, re-plug it.

Sixball has an interesting possibility. I wonder if you bumped a connection loose when you were working on it???

OK all..First of all I appreciate very much all of the help...At the very least I have learned a great deal about this engine.

However I am getting close to the end of what I can do to get this thing running.

To recap:

1. The fuel pump ran perfectly prior to changing the fuel filter, oil, oil filter, and plugs.

2. The fuel pump stopped running directly after the maintenance was finished. I went in the house for about 25 minutes and tried restarting the fuel pump worked fine again.

3. I took the boat to the river for a test run and the fuel pump was not functioning again and hasn't functioned since (except for when I ran power directly to it from a battery).

4. Replaced fuel filter relay.

5. Checked and rechecked all connections. All are secure.

6. Ran power directly to the pump terminals. It works properly.

7. I have no power at the fuel pump terminals coming from the fuel pump relay.

8. I believe my engine's version of a cannon plug has been checked but I cannot be 100% sure as mine appears different from other's description.

9 The last thing/suggestion I have been given was to unscrew the oil pressure sender and clean it out as can clog and cut power to the fuel pump. I am not sure what I am looking for on this one.

Other than #9 I believe I have checked everything we have come up with. I have a feeling that the ECM is playing a part in this but can't be sure.

I know this thread is getting a little stale and it seems all suggestions possible have be given so unless anyone has anything else?

Thanks,

Jeff

Good luck. Please post the cause when you find out. I think everyone that has added their .02 would like to know. One more thing to add to the knowledge base. THX.

[25lsvwakesetter]

Update and info for the next person with an issue like this:

1. I have attached my year COLOR wiring diagram for all of your viewing (and I'm sure diagnosing) pleasure.

2. The fuel pump relay is working again.

3. The fuel pump will still not charge however it allowed me to narrow the issue to two items:

a. The green/white wire coming off the FP relay and runs to the ECM.

b. It's only purpose is to provide a ground at key up (2 seconds)(complete the circuit), and after engine starts and fuel pump is running.

c. My test for today is to ground that pin off the relay (green/white/85) to see if I have an issue with the wire itself.

4. If that proves successful (alternate grounding works-pump charges) I will need to trace the wire to see if it worked itself loose.

5. If it is all secure then I have traced it back to the ECM which will have to be dealt with by the dealer.

Hope all of this will help someone else understand their own boat better.

The wiring diagram should be very helpful to everyone with an engine in that era even though its 8.1 specific. I believe there will be many similarities to other engine types INDMAR produced.

Will keep everyone posted.

Jeff

8_1_.1_MEFI_4_ETC_Diag.pdf

8_1_.1_MEFI_4_ETC_Diag.pdf

[25lsvwakesetter]

OK....

1. I am an idiot.. My tester was bad..bought a new one on a hunch and traced the short to the power and ground that ran from the plug from the wiring harness and the fuel pump. Fixed the connectors that had degraded and Viola! Fuel pump charged the system and it started right up.

2. ALERT!...Everyone who has a fuel pump with the style of connectors that have a type of foam inside them that is designed to protect the connector from moisture should check them immediately. THEN GET RID OF THEM NOW AS THEY ARE CRAP ANd WILL EVENTUALLY FALL APART WHEN YOU LEAST WANT THEM TO. At the very least carefully inspect them!

The connectors had completely disintegrated and that is where I found the short that caused all of my pain. Even after I repaired the connectors the engine would cut out due to poor connections in the plug that was put between the wiring harness and the wires that ran to the fuel pump.. So I cut off the plug and replaced with two female-male spade connectors and wrapped them with electrician's tape.

Problem solved.

Learned alot about my engine.

Hopefully other will benefit from my oversight and everyone's great advice...

Boat on!

Edited May 16, 2008 by 25lsvwakesetter

[SunriseH2OSkier]

That's great news!

[25lsvwakesetter]

[VinRLX]