High gas prices

[-BS-]

P.S. Which burns more gas: 120 miles a day in a 4 cyl car OR 60 miles a day (25 in a 4 cyl, 35 in a V8..... that's my entire household)?

I'm trying to figure out the point to that one. You burn more gas in a day? So what. We all use it & need it. To say stop using it is an incredibly simplistic & highly unrealistic answer to the problem.

BTW, gas is still about 3.40/gallon here. It's a conspiracy I'm tellin' ya, we're not that far from the Valley for cripe's sake.

First, I am not, nor have ever suggested to STOP using it. I never said it. What I was saying is; how can people who "waste" gas like its going out of style complain so much about the price. To me, complaining about gas prices is for 'grumpy old men'.

Let me ask you this: Water and Oil are both necessities, right? A government agency is, somewhat, in control of the pricing on these, agreed? HOW MUCH SYMPATHY WOULD YOU HAVE FOR YOUR NEIGHBOR IF HE COMPLAINED ABOUT THE CITY'S WATER PRICES............YET LEFT HIS FAUCETS RUNNING WIDE OPEN FOR 3 or 4, MAYBE 8 HOURS MOST DAYS DURING THE SUMMER? (i sure as heck, burn gas in that exact same manner during the summer)

I cannot comprehend how that is different. Please enlighten me. (honestly...not tryn to be a smarta$$)

[Guest J-Ro]

The consumer just doesn't understand. In July the world demanded twice the gas as now....duh.

HRYBLS- I guess I was off on my prediction by a few months.....

[-BS-]

P.S. Which burns more gas: 120 miles a day in a 4 cyl car OR 60 miles a day (25 in a 4 cyl, 35 in a V8..... that's my entire household)?

I'm trying to figure out the point to that one. You burn more gas in a day? So what. We all use it & need it. To say stop using it is an incredibly simplistic & highly unrealistic answer to the problem.

BTW, gas is still about 3.40/gallon here. It's a conspiracy I'm tellin' ya, we're not that far from the Valley for cripe's sake.

Also, (and sorry for the repeated posts....I'm still getting the hang of quoting/editing etc) I meant to respond to the "which burns more gas" comment. Here's the deal: JETSKI sayin "i only drive 120 miles in a 4cyl car' was an obvious attempt at absolving himself of guilt. My response was simply showing him that the gas he burns in a 4 cyl car is STILL more than my 2 person household burns a day. (and for the record, my estimates were WAY overstated......we actually don't put 120 miles A WEEK on our 4 cyl and the V8 does about 50 miles a day......that means he travels 600 miles a week, WE travel NO MORE than 500 and that's pushin it)

[eyepeeler]

With all due respect, I beg to differ with you. Gas is a HUGE luxury. In Europe most people walk to work and take mass transit. In USA we have been lured into a huge urban sprawl.

Why is oil on the market? Why should a few get to fatten their wallets at the expense of everyone else? Gas is not a luxury, rather a needed resource by everyone. So why not take it off the market?

[Guest J-Ro]

America is just a little bit bigger than the 15 European countries combined. People close together makes for great mass transit.

[chadellt85]

Also, (and sorry for the repeated posts....I'm still getting the hang of quoting/editing etc) I meant to respond to the "which burns more gas" comment. Here's the deal: JETSKI sayin "i only drive 120 miles in a 4cyl car' was an obvious attempt at absolving himself of guilt. My response was simply showing him that the gas he burns in a 4 cyl car is STILL more than my 2 person household burns a day. (and for the record, my estimates were WAY overstated......we actually don't put 120 miles A WEEK on our 4 cyl and the V8 does about 50 miles a day......that means he travels 600 miles a week, WE travel NO MORE than 500 and that's pushin it)

bs001,

I think Jetskipro was actually saying he drives 120 miles for WORK, Similar to the trucker you mention.

and I will do the math for you.

JEtskipro: 600 miles per week at 30+MPG=20 gallons, his wife might put on another 100 miles a week driving to work at 25mpg which equals 4 gallons , so that is 24 Gallons total for his household.

bs001: 100 miles on the 4 cyl at 25mpg= 4 gallons, 350 miles on the V8 at lets say 15mpg= 23.3 gallons. Your household uses 27.3 gallons a week.

bs001, obviously there are some assumptions made on the mileage of your cars, and I understand that. I happen to know Jetskipro personally, and I argue with him about stuff like this all the time. I just don't think you should be throwing him under the bus when you are just as "Guilty" for your gas usage.

I don't thin either of you are out of line with the average. I use more than either of you, so I guess I'm a bad guy.

Sorry to keep this fight going, but i just don't think you were making any sense bs001 with that specific argument.

[WakeGirl]

Yeah, I didn't really understand it which was why I made the comment. My point was merely that to pin the complaining about gas prices just to boating & to say that we should stop using it....not highly realistic at all. Maybe it's easier to make that judgment if you're not using that much each week, but there are some that positively need it to commute & have no other good options.

[-BS-]

Ok: let me quickly address the whole "mileage" thing. (and keep in mind it was a post script to begin with) The only reason I brought it up (briefly), is because I interpreted JETSKI's mention of this to mean that he was not burning much fuel. Why would I take it any other way!? He mentioned it in between "i don't own a boat, I just use one during the summer months" ,"I own two 4 cyl cars" and "I don't own a tow rig". Why would he mention that he drives a 4 cyl car unless he was implying that he doesn't burn much gas?? My response to that line of thought was to show him that he is EXACTLY the same as the rest of us, INCLUDING ME!

And to imply that he is just like a trucker because he CHOOSES to commute from Salem all the way to Portland (i assume) is crazy. A Trucker's JOB is to travel. JETSKI is traveling to his job.

THAT IS ALL BESIDE THE POINT. The initial debate (not fight) began because I poked fun at people who CHOOSE TO BURN GAS FOR FUN for complaining about gas prices. JetSki responded by saying, basically, that he SHOULD whine about gas prices. I would love for someone to respond on the crux of the issue which is: HOW CAN YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT SOMETHING, WHEN YOU, SPECIFICALLY, ARE A BIG PART OF THE PROBLEM? (or at least explain to me why that is not hilarious, which was the point of my first post)

[hrybls]

The consumer just doesn't understand. In July the world demanded twice the gas as now....duh.

HRYBLS- I guess I was off on my prediction by a few months.....

Your right, however this just causes higher prices going forward, than whould have otherwise been, because why drill now? Alternative energy is now not worth pushing forward at the same pace as only 2 months ago, even Americans will pull that rusty ford explorer out of the barn if they can now afford to fill it up(because they will not be able to afford a new civic and time soon)..........when demand comes back, consumers should see even higher prices. What will bring that demand back? who knows.....but it will happen.

[WakeGirl]

The consumer just doesn't understand. In July the world demanded twice the gas as now....duh.

HRYBLS- I guess I was off on my prediction by a few months.....

Your right, however this just causes higher prices going forward, than whould have otherwise been, because why drill now? Alternative energy is now not worth pushing forward at the same pace as only 2 months ago, even Americans will pull that rusty ford explorer out of the barn if they can now afford to fill it up(because they will not be able to afford a new civic and time soon)..........when demand comes back, consumers should see even higher prices. What will bring that demand back? who knows.....but it will happen.

Except that a lot of people went backward on their SUVs & trucks thinking that it somehow made sense to trade in the gas guzzler on something more economical, not doing the math on the added debt that they were taking on by acquiring the little car. It's happened a lot over the past year. It got so bad around here that there was a window of time where many dealers in the area wouldn't even take an SUV or truck in on trade. And maybe that will exacerbate what you're saying, I don't know. But this really put a scare into people. And with the economy being what it is & will be for some time, people will be looking for any break that they can get, so I think that to some degree the pressure will stay to pursue those avenues.

[Guest J-Ro]

hrybls-

I agree but like Tracy said, I think this last increase in prices for nearly a year got the ball rolling beyond the ability to stop it. Alternative energy will be developed much faster than a year ago. I hope Washington realizes that this is just a fallback to historical levels and gas and oil will continue to climb. The sting from the last increase will remain for a while. Looking back in 20 years this could have been the best thing to happen to this country. It was enough of a shock for the populace to realize this is real but not so much that it damaged the economy longterm (In regards to gas prices).

[areamike]

Gas = 2.59 a gallon in Frankfort, Indiana yesterday.

4 weeks ago it was 4.09...hmmmm. I'm pretty sure supply and demand has not changed in 4 weeks. The same excuse they always use as to why Gas prices are so high. I call it PRICE GOUGING.

Edited October 17, 2008 by areamike

[-BS-]

hrybls-

I agree but like Tracy said, I think this last increase in prices for nearly a year got the ball rolling beyond the ability to stop it. Alternative energy will be developed much faster than a year ago. I hope Washington realizes that this is just a fallback to historical levels and gas and oil will continue to climb. The sting from the last increase will remain for a while. Looking back in 20 years this could have been the best thing to happen to this country. It was enough of a shock for the populace to realize this is real but not so much that it damaged the economy longterm (In regards to gas prices).

J-ro:

I agree with your train of thought on this one. You mention that "it was a shock for the populace"....I think that until it's a big enough shock to affect people like me (and a lot of others on this site), who continue to buy tons of gas for "extras" no matter what the price, demand will stay high ........and so will prices.....so there's no sense in complaining. (I would consider "extras" things like SUV's, Motorhomes, Boats, Commuters, etc) You agree?

[hrybls]

hrybls-

I agree but like Tracy said, I think this last increase in prices for nearly a year got the ball rolling beyond the ability to stop it. Alternative energy will be developed much faster than a year ago. I hope Washington realizes that this is just a fallback to historical levels and gas and oil will continue to climb. The sting from the last increase will remain for a while. Looking back in 20 years this could have been the best thing to happen to this country. It was enough of a shock for the populace to realize this is real but not so much that it damaged the economy longterm (In regards to gas prices).

That may be the case, We will see how short peoples memory's are. I don't think GM's research dept has money to burn these days, the ball could be slowed quite quikly. Solar/Alternative energy ETF's have also been cut in half in 2 months. see TAN or GEX this does not paint a good picture for these Alternative ways.

[Guest J-Ro]

I think the extension of the Alt Energy/Solwr tax credit will help. I know for the months leading up to the expiration, the industry slowed down quite a bit. Let's be honest, most alt energy has to be subsidized by the govt as it cannot be done profitably yet.

I agree with your train of thought on this one. You mention that "it was a shock for the populace"....I think that until it's a big enough shock to affect people like me (and a lot of others on this site), who continue to buy tons of gas for "extras" no matter what the price, demand will stay high ........and so will prices.....so there's no sense in complaining. (I would consider "extras" things like SUV's, Motorhomes, Boats, Commuters, etc) You agree?

I have seen some of your posts about this and no I don't agree.

1) SUV - No it isn't an extra for a lot of people. If you have more than 4 people on your family or even 2 small children, the room in the average car is not enough. Please don't say buy a wagon. I love wagons but their trunks aren't much bigger than their comparable sedan. People also have other needs of which SUV's and trucks may be necessary.

2) Motorhomes - I would bet a high percentage of motorhomes (Not 5th wheels or trailers) are owned by retirees who live in them.

3) - Boats. People complain about high lift ticket prices, should they stop skiing/snowboarding? People need outlets for recreation. A boat may seem like an extra to some but a necessity to others.

4) - Commuting - You can't be serious on this one.

I would hazard a guess that the amount of "Extra" gas used is less than 1% of gas used for necessities like commuting, trucking, power generation. I doubt the boating communities gas consumption would make any discernable dent if it ceased to exist. I think you would be surprised how much of a shock went through our community this Summer. A lot of people scaled back their boating or made sacrifices in other areas in order to afford it which goes back to my recreation argument. We all need it in some form.

Finally we self-centered Americans need to realize we only use 25% of the worlds gas and the "downturn" is affecting most developed and emerging market countries. Demand will be much lower in the coming couple years as compared to 2 years ago.

Edited October 17, 2008 by J-Ro

[-BS-]

I think the extension of the Alt Energy/Solwr tax credit will help. I know for the months leading up to the expiration, the industry slowed down quite a bit. Let's be honest, most alt energy has to be subsidized by the govt as it cannot be done profitably yet.

I agree with your train of thought on this one. You mention that "it was a shock for the populace"....I think that until it's a big enough shock to affect people like me (and a lot of others on this site), who continue to buy tons of gas for "extras" no matter what the price, demand will stay high ........and so will prices.....so there's no sense in complaining. (I would consider "extras" things like SUV's, Motorhomes, Boats, Commuters, etc) You agree?

I have seen some of your posts about this and no I don't agree.

1) SUV - No it isn't an extra for a lot of people. If you have more than 4 people on your family or even 2 small children, the room in the average car is not enough. Please don't say buy a wagon. I love wagons but their trunks aren't much bigger than their comparable sedan. People also have other needs of which SUV's and trucks may be necessary.

2) Motorhomes - I would bet a high percentage of motorhomes (Not 5th wheels or trailers) are owned by retirees who live in them.

3) - Boats. People complain about high lift ticket prices, should they stop skiing/snowboarding? People need outlets for recreation. A boat may seem like an extra to some but a necessity to others.

4) - Commuting - You can't be serious on this one.

I would hazard a guess that the amount of "Extra" gas used is less than 1% of gas used for necessities like commuting, trucking, power generation. I doubt the boating communities gas consumption would make any discernable dent if it ceased to exist. I think you would be surprised how much of a shock went through our community this Summer. A lot of people scaled back their boating or made sacrifices in other areas in order to afford it which goes back to my recreation argument. We all need it in some form.

Finally we self-centered Americans need to realize we only use 25% of the worlds gas and the "downturn" is affecting most developed and emerging market countries. Demand will be much lower in the coming couple years as compared to 2 years ago.

Hahaha....I'm sorry. (and this will be my last post on this subject) This is unbelievable. I don't get it, and is obvious I won't (and I'm in the minority).

It kills me how people will go on and on and on and on with excuses for a problem instead of looking in the mirror.

Seriously....Motorhomes: most are lived in by retirees???? That's laughable. I don't know ANYONE who lives in their Motorhome (i could give you 20 examples, but i will keep this short). BOATS: a necessity!! you can't be for real. SUV's:...yeah, keep believing only 4 child homes own those. COMMUTING: I will give you partial credit on this, because the definitions are so vague....but there are A TON of people who could EASILY afford to live closer to their place of business, that don't. It's a CHOICE they are making. Whether is be because they earn more pay, or they like the neighborhood their in. They CHOOSE to pay more for gas, and make MORE money at their job (or pay less for housing)

Keep in mind, you said "self centered Americans" and then proceeded to tell me that boats are a "necessity".

And please do not misunderstand me. I AM NOT saying to STOP doing anything. I am saying to make the choice that suits you. AND LIVE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES!

[Guest J-Ro]

Obviously we won't agree on this and you seem very passionate about the subject. Personally I could give a crap but it seems like you have knowledge that we simply cannot comprehend so let me see if I can wrap my brain around it.

Obviously you know everyone who owns a motorhome so I can't argue your logic. You seem to have a good grasp on everyone's personal choice in regards to their vehicle as well. You seem to know that everyone who owns a boat complains about gas prices and you seem to know that most people who commute to work can afford to live closer. You also seem to have a good grasp on everyone's situations in life and are privy to their thoughts on gasoline prices. So by all means continue to not understand what you think other people are doing and thinking.

[-BS-]

Obviously we won't agree on this and you seem very passionate about the subject. Personally I could give a crap but it seems like you have knowledge that we simply cannot comprehend so let me see if I can wrap my brain around it.

Obviously you know everyone who owns a motorhome so I can't argue your logic. You seem to have a good grasp on everyone's personal choice in regards to their vehicle as well. You seem to know that everyone who owns a boat complains about gas prices and you seem to know that most people who commute to work can afford to live closer. You also seem to have a good grasp on everyone's situations in life and are privy to their thoughts on gasoline prices. So by all means continue to not understand what you think other people are doing and thinking.

Run out of ammo and throw the gun, huh?

Fact: If demand goes down, price goes down (whether it is proportional or not). (my original point)

Fact: The typical RV owner is 49, married, owns a home, and has an annual salary of 68,000. (rv-n-motorhomes.com)

Fact: Half of SUV owners do not have children under 18. (google it)

Fact: Recreational boating is NOT a necessity.

Fact: We ALL have choices on what we drive, where we live, and where we work.

Fact: When I made my original post there were 18 pages of people discussing & complaining about "high gas prices" (that occured in...what ...less than 24 hours?). So, while not ALL boat owners complain about gas prices, I think it's a fair assumption that A LOT of them do.

I do realize that I am (obviously) in the minority in believing that if we all 'scaled back' our use of oil, the price would go down. I read a post earlier that said something to the effect of "we are all skeptical that the price of oil does not reflect the true cost of supplying the oil" and I understand and sympathize with that. I DO NOT understand or sympathize with those who incessantly complain about a problem, that they are unwilling to change their precious "needs" to solve. It just doesn't make sense to me.

[areamike]

$2.49 a gallon today. Frankfort, Indiana

[Guest J-Ro]

Run out of ammo and throw the gun, huh?

Nope just enjoy stirring things up especially since Winter is coming and people get their twinkie all twisted.

Fact: We ALL have choices on what we drive, where we live, and where we work.

You sum up my point right here. Many many people made the decisions you deride while gas was much less and certainly didn't look to be increasing so quickly. They have every right to be upset if they want to.

18 pages of people discussing & complaining about "high gas prices" (that occured in...what ...less than 24 hours?).

This thread is months old BTW

[-BS-]

Run out of ammo and throw the gun, huh?

Nope just enjoy stirring things up especially since Winter is coming and people get their twinkie all twisted.

Fact: We ALL have choices on what we drive, where we live, and where we work.

You sum up my point right here. Many many people made the decisions you deride while gas was much less and certainly didn't look to be increasing so quickly. They have every right to be upset if they want to.

18 pages of people discussing & complaining about "high gas prices" (that occured in...what ...less than 24 hours?).

This thread is months old BTW

No twisted twinkie here......just trade the river for the mountain and keep on ridin....

and I DO AGREE WITH YOU that people CAN be as upset as they want but.......well....that's their issue to sort through... (i just get sick of hearin it, thats all)

And on the age of the thread.......well, that's just egg in my face! Got me there!! (how did I not notice that? that's a rhetorical question!)

[bretski75]

$1.91 up north.

Great news. That Obama guy works fast.

[Guest J-Ro]

I want to apologize for calling $2.65 gas by July. I was obviously waaaaaaay off and a couple months late.

Avg Gas Price

7/17 - $4.11

11/11 - $2.22

46% Decline

Oil per BBL

7/11 - $147

11/11 - $59

61% Decline

[JasonK]

OK, J-Ro what's your next prediction? Good going!

[jetskipro550]

$2.05 at Costco last night for regular...now costing less then $20 to fill up my tank