Gas, $3.75 a gallon by Summer Estimated

[SC Fam]

I'm new, so maybe my opinion will change over time, but for us having this boat and gear is a huge expense. If a day on the water costs $90 in fuel vs. $115 in fuel, I'm not gonna sweat it. Going to a concert for 4 runs at least $250. Going fishing is a little cheaper but not much. Everything is costing more right now, but I'm sure not gonna let fuel price even factor in to using my boat as much as my time (which is the limiting factor for me) will allow.

[SC Fam]

If you do 200 hours on the water in a year (that is a fair bit for most of us) and your rig burns 5 gallons per hour averaged over the various ways you drive, you are spending $3,000 in fuel in one case and $3,750 in the other. Not cheap, for sure, but if you can do the $3,000, plus all the gear, plus the boat depreciation, I don't think the extra fuel should shut you down....

[Sixball]

Could this be the answer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUmlLqkUHd0

[Faceplant409]

Could this be the answer?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUmlLqkUHd0

WOW!

I bet an oil company or 2 will look to buy his technology and shelf it real soon..... So it can never hit the market and ruin oil demand...

P

[jetskipro550]

Thats amazing. I am skeptical, so I am going to toss this out there. Why isn't his EVERYWHERE right now? Why isn't it all over the news? Why hasn't some billionaire sunk tons of money into making this new technology more available? There has got to be a catch.

[Toby]

nothing new, thats been around for a while. i think its pretty funny that fox news did such a good article on it

you dont hear about it because people dont want you to hear about it, but who knows. i think its probably a bit like the EV1. back when it came out i bet most people on here didnt know too much about it. a lot more people know about it now and the BS that went on...

[CedarLakeSkier]

I remember doing experiments in high school with brackish water and electricity showing that the electricity will break the water down into two parts hydrogen and on part oxygen (the tube above one electrode would fill with air at twice the rate).

I'm not familiar with this guys process or how HHO gas in any different from H2O..

I think the problem with this kind of technolody is that it's always take more energy to turn water into a usable gas than was created by the gas after the conversion, meaning you can't produce enough energy to continue the reaction as well as power something else.

[Malibudude]

While the price of fuel itself may not keep people of the water, the other costs have risen because of fuel may. As all the other items we need to purchase rise there is less and less money to purchase fuel for recreational activities. A local campground was full for the Easter Weekend, people just could afford the fuel costs to their normal destinations.

[footnlongline]

While the price of fuel itself may not keep people of the water, the other costs have risen because of fuel may. As all the other items we need to purchase rise there is less and less money to purchase fuel for recreational activities. A local campground was full for the Easter Weekend, people just could afford the fuel costs to their normal destinations.

watch it http://work.mullen.com/clients/grain-foods/video7.php

[kent]

While the price of fuel itself may not keep people of the water, the other costs have risen because of fuel may. As all the other items we need to purchase rise there is less and less money to purchase fuel for recreational activities. A local campground was full for the Easter Weekend, people just could afford the fuel costs to their normal destinations.

watch it http://work.mullen.com/clients/grain-foods/video7.php

I have a few problems with mr becks analysis.

1. whats so weird about farmers wanting to make money.... dont you have to do that to stay in business?

2. he talks about wheat up 50% hurting people that cant make their morgage payment ?! that comparison is the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard..... dont buy a house you cant afford !!!!

3. and if these farming industries go to south america whats going to happen to all the land that is farmed now? just grow some dandolions on it ? No.. someone will farm it like they have for generations...

My answer to mr beck is if you want to make this country better.... get rid of the lawyers and the ridiculous lawsuits they bring that cost us billions a year to fight in court. Cut CEO pay... getting a 400 mil dollar severance is OC especially when the stock price is in the tank!!! and my final thought is if we can build a nuclear bomb in 5 yrs why cant we put the same effort to safe hydrogen.... I think the payoff would be way better than the bomb, the only thing its really good for is mutually assured destruction. at least with ethenol there is no radioactive juice that will be a danger to everything within miles for centuries !!

[footnlongline]

While the price of fuel itself may not keep people of the water, the other costs have risen because of fuel may. As all the other items we need to purchase rise there is less and less money to purchase fuel for recreational activities. A local campground was full for the Easter Weekend, people just could afford the fuel costs to their normal destinations.

watch it <a href="http://work.mullen.com/clients/grain-foods/video7.php" target="_blank">http://work.mullen.com/clients/grain-foods/video7.php</a>

I have a few problems with mr becks analysis.

1. whats so weird about farmers wanting to make money.... dont you have to do that to stay in business?

2. he talks about wheat up 50% hurting people that cant make their morgage payment ?! that comparison is the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard..... dont buy a house you cant afford !!!!

3. and if these farming industries go to south america whats going to happen to all the land that is farmed now? just grow some dandolions on it ? No.. someone will farm it like they have for generations...

My answer to mr beck is if you want to make this country better.... get rid of the lawyers and the ridiculous lawsuits they bring that cost us billions a year to fight in court. Cut CEO pay... getting a 400 mil dollar severance is OC especially when the stock price is in the tank!!! and my final thought is if we can build a nuclear bomb in 5 yrs why cant we put the same effort to safe hydrogen.... I think the payoff would be way better than the bomb, the only thing its really good for is mutually assured destruction. at least with ethenol there is no radioactive juice that will be a danger to everything within miles for centuries !!

DO YOUR HOMEWORK before making asinine statements. Nobody is blaming the farmers, it's congress. The fact is we had the Ag commodities all sewn up in the 70's until Carter's blunder with the grain embargo on the Soviet Union. This brilliant policy didn't hurt Russia but it virtually wiped out the family farm with the stoke of a pen. BTW the biggest benefactors of this were South American farms. As to leaving the fields grow weeds, google the governments PIK program (payment in kind) It's a subsidy as well where the farmers are/were paid to plant nothing. You see my misinformed friend, its because of misguided policy by the Dems like low interest loans on big machinery the farmers didn't need and couldn't afford that were disigned to bail out companies like International McCormick and Massey Fergeson that a large portion of our family farms fell to big business. This is why rural states are RED. The alternative fuels you speak of are not yet cost effective, This is why you don't see them used much. When the price of oil reaches the threashold where demand drops off drastically, you will see demand for alternative energry sources rise and the change will slowly occure. Remember, when you smoke too much pot, it clouds your judgment.

[kent]

While the price of fuel itself may not keep people of the water, the other costs have risen because of fuel may. As all the other items we need to purchase rise there is less and less money to purchase fuel for recreational activities. A local campground was full for the Easter Weekend, people just could afford the fuel costs to their normal destinations.

watch it <a href="http://work.mullen.com/clients/grain-foods/video7.php" target="_blank">http://work.mullen.com/clients/grain-foods/video7.php</a>

I have a few problems with mr becks analysis.

1. whats so weird about farmers wanting to make money.... dont you have to do that to stay in business?

2. he talks about wheat up 50% hurting people that cant make their morgage payment ?! that comparison is the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard..... dont buy a house you cant afford !!!!

3. and if these farming industries go to south america whats going to happen to all the land that is farmed now? just grow some dandolions on it ? No.. someone will farm it like they have for generations...

My answer to mr beck is if you want to make this country better.... get rid of the lawyers and the ridiculous lawsuits they bring that cost us billions a year to fight in court. Cut CEO pay... getting a 400 mil dollar severance is OC especially when the stock price is in the tank!!! and my final thought is if we can build a nuclear bomb in 5 yrs why cant we put the same effort to safe hydrogen.... I think the payoff would be way better than the bomb, the only thing its really good for is mutually assured destruction. at least with ethenol there is no radioactive juice that will be a danger to everything within miles for centuries !!

DO YOUR HOMEWORK before making asinine statements. Nobody is blaming the farmers, it's congress. The fact is we had the Ag commodities all sewn up in the 70's until Carter's blunder with the grain embargo on the Soviet Union. This brilliant policy didn't hurt Russia but it virtually wiped out the family farm with the stoke of a pen. BTW the biggest benefactors of this were South American farms. As to leaving the fields grow weeds, google the governments PIK program (payment in kind) It's a subsidy as well where the farmers are/were paid to plant nothing. You see my misinformed friend, its because of misguided policy by the Dems like low interest loans on big machinery the farmers didn't need and couldn't afford that were disigned to bail out companies like International McCormick and Massey Fergeson that a large portion of our family farms fell to big business. This is why rural states are RED. The alternative fuels you speak of are not yet cost effective, This is why you don't see them used much. When the price of oil reaches the threashold where demand drops off drastically, you will see demand for alternative energry sources rise and the change will slowly occure. Remember, when you smoke too much pot, it clouds your judgment.

Well Im not going to stoop to the level of calling you asinine or accuse you of doing drugs... but I think that it is you that needs to do some homework. For one, what does the embargo have to do with alt energy? Two, my family has farmed for 80 yrs and we had no prob getting threw it, the only people that went under or got hurt that you speak of is the morons that did what the people in the morgage melt down done... bought s*** they couldnt afford. And yes the government does pay for us not to plant some ground, but it is miniscule. For ex. it is only allowed for 60 feet along woods, creeks or watersheds through the fields that would grow next to nothing anyway. For a smart guy like yourself, I would have thought you to know that. And for the last part of your comment, THAT WAS MY WHOLE POINT !!! Why do you think ethenol is here in the first place !!! Put an effort like we did in building the bomb to make alt energy ie hydrogen, ethenol into something that is economical enough to replace oil !!! sheesh

[footnlongline]

While the price of fuel itself may not keep people of the water, the other costs have risen because of fuel may. As all the other items we need to purchase rise there is less and less money to purchase fuel for recreational activities. A local campground was full for the Easter Weekend, people just could afford the fuel costs to their normal destinations.

watch it <a href="http://work.mullen.com/clients/grain-foods/video7.php" target="_blank">http://work.mullen.com/clients/grain-foods/video7.php</a>

I have a few problems with mr becks analysis.

1. whats so weird about farmers wanting to make money.... dont you have to do that to stay in business?

2. he talks about wheat up 50% hurting people that cant make their morgage payment ?! that comparison is the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard..... dont buy a house you cant afford !!!!

3. and if these farming industries go to south america whats going to happen to all the land that is farmed now? just grow some dandolions on it ? No.. someone will farm it like they have for generations...

My answer to mr beck is if you want to make this country better.... get rid of the lawyers and the ridiculous lawsuits they bring that cost us billions a year to fight in court. Cut CEO pay... getting a 400 mil dollar severance is OC especially when the stock price is in the tank!!! and my final thought is if we can build a nuclear bomb in 5 yrs why cant we put the same effort to safe hydrogen.... I think the payoff would be way better than the bomb, the only thing its really good for is mutually assured destruction. at least with ethenol there is no radioactive juice that will be a danger to everything within miles for centuries !!

DO YOUR HOMEWORK before making asinine statements. Nobody is blaming the farmers, it's congress. The fact is we had the Ag commodities all sewn up in the 70's until Carter's blunder with the grain embargo on the Soviet Union. This brilliant policy didn't hurt Russia but it virtually wiped out the family farm with the stoke of a pen. BTW the biggest benefactors of this were South American farms. As to leaving the fields grow weeds, google the governments PIK program (payment in kind) It's a subsidy as well where the farmers are/were paid to plant nothing. You see my misinformed friend, its because of misguided policy by the Dems like low interest loans on big machinery the farmers didn't need and couldn't afford that were disigned to bail out companies like International McCormick and Massey Fergeson that a large portion of our family farms fell to big business. This is why rural states are RED. The alternative fuels you speak of are not yet cost effective, This is why you don't see them used much. When the price of oil reaches the threashold where demand drops off drastically, you will see demand for alternative energry sources rise and the change will slowly occure. Remember, when you smoke too much pot, it clouds your judgment.

Well Im not going to stoop to the level of calling you asinine or accuse you of doing drugs... but I think that it is you that needs to do some homework. For one, what does the embargo have to do with alt energy? Two, my family has farmed for 80 yrs and we had no prob getting threw it, the only people that went under or got hurt that you speak of is the morons that did what the people in the morgage melt down done... bought s*** they couldnt afford. And yes the government does pay for us not to plant some ground, but it is miniscule. For ex. it is only allowed for 60 feet along woods, creeks or watersheds through the fields that would grow next to nothing anyway. For a smart guy like yourself, I would have thought you to know that. And for the last part of your comment, THAT WAS MY WHOLE POINT !!! Why do you think ethenol is here in the first place !!! Put an effort like we did in building the bomb to make alt energy ie hydrogen, ethenol into something that is economical enough to replace oil !!! sheesh

I'll try to make it simple. The government is subsidizing corn to produce ethanol. This creates a false demand which in turn drives up the price of corn.

Because of this, when farmers do their projected partial budgets, corn is a attractive no brainer for them. More farmers producing corn = less producing wheat. Less wheat on the market without less demand = higher wheat prices. Foreign markets can now compete for that demand for wheat. The grain embargo on Russia opened up markets for foreign competition, we had little viable competition prior to that. This senario runs the same risk. Using corn to produce ethanol is not viable because it uses more energy to produce it than it yields. So as you can see this smacks of a pork barrel project. As for your plantings, I believe you are confusing the Soil Conservation Act(no plowing around watersheds etc.) with PIK. PIK was prevalent in 1983-84 where up to 50% of your land could be set aside to reduce surplus. Unless you are growing sugar cane in Michigan, I dont think you meet the requirements to participate in this subsidy. Finally we already have ethanol and hydrogen fuel cells, they simply cost more to use than petroleum does right now but when oil becomes too expensive, they will become economically feasible. Hope this clears thing up.

[MalibuTime]

Now kids, is it time to lock the thread when it disinigrates into name calling? Besides, skip the grammar police, time to call in the grammar SWAT team on this one! It's gettin' ugly

[kent]

While the price of fuel itself may not keep people of the water, the other costs have risen because of fuel may. As all the other items we need to purchase rise there is less and less money to purchase fuel for recreational activities. A local campground was full for the Easter Weekend, people just could afford the fuel costs to their normal destinations.

watch it <a href="http://work.mullen.com/clients/grain-foods/video7.php" target="_blank">http://work.mullen.com/clients/grain-foods/video7.php</a>

I have a few problems with mr becks analysis.

1. whats so weird about farmers wanting to make money.... dont you have to do that to stay in business?

2. he talks about wheat up 50% hurting people that cant make their morgage payment ?! that comparison is the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard..... dont buy a house you cant afford !!!!

3. and if these farming industries go to south america whats going to happen to all the land that is farmed now? just grow some dandolions on it ? No.. someone will farm it like they have for generations...

My answer to mr beck is if you want to make this country better.... get rid of the lawyers and the ridiculous lawsuits they bring that cost us billions a year to fight in court. Cut CEO pay... getting a 400 mil dollar severance is OC especially when the stock price is in the tank!!! and my final thought is if we can build a nuclear bomb in 5 yrs why cant we put the same effort to safe hydrogen.... I think the payoff would be way better than the bomb, the only thing its really good for is mutually assured destruction. at least with ethenol there is no radioactive juice that will be a danger to everything within miles for centuries !!

DO YOUR HOMEWORK before making asinine statements. Nobody is blaming the farmers, it's congress. The fact is we had the Ag commodities all sewn up in the 70's until Carter's blunder with the grain embargo on the Soviet Union. This brilliant policy didn't hurt Russia but it virtually wiped out the family farm with the stoke of a pen. BTW the biggest benefactors of this were South American farms. As to leaving the fields grow weeds, google the governments PIK program (payment in kind) It's a subsidy as well where the farmers are/were paid to plant nothing. You see my misinformed friend, its because of misguided policy by the Dems like low interest loans on big machinery the farmers didn't need and couldn't afford that were disigned to bail out companies like International McCormick and Massey Fergeson that a large portion of our family farms fell to big business. This is why rural states are RED. The alternative fuels you speak of are not yet cost effective, This is why you don't see them used much. When the price of oil reaches the threashold where demand drops off drastically, you will see demand for alternative energry sources rise and the change will slowly occure. Remember, when you smoke too much pot, it clouds your judgment.

Well Im not going to stoop to the level of calling you asinine or accuse you of doing drugs... but I think that it is you that needs to do some homework. For one, what does the embargo have to do with alt energy? Two, my family has farmed for 80 yrs and we had no prob getting threw it, the only people that went under or got hurt that you speak of is the morons that did what the people in the morgage melt down done... bought s*** they couldnt afford. And yes the government does pay for us not to plant some ground, but it is miniscule. For ex. it is only allowed for 60 feet along woods, creeks or watersheds through the fields that would grow next to nothing anyway. For a smart guy like yourself, I would have thought you to know that. And for the last part of your comment, THAT WAS MY WHOLE POINT !!! Why do you think ethenol is here in the first place !!! Put an effort like we did in building the bomb to make alt energy ie hydrogen, ethenol into something that is economical enough to replace oil !!! sheesh

I'll try to make it simple. The government is subsidizing corn to produce ethanol. This creates a false demand which in turn drives up the price of corn.

Because of this, when farmers do their projected partial budgets, corn is a attractive no brainer for them. More farmers producing corn = less producing wheat. Less wheat on the market without less demand = higher wheat prices. Foreign markets can now compete for that demand for wheat. The grain embargo on Russia opened up markets for foreign competition, we had little viable competition prior to that. This senario runs the same risk. Using corn to produce ethanol is not viable because it uses more energy to produce it than it yields. So as you can see this smacks of a pork barrel project. As for your plantings, I believe you are confusing the Soil Conservation Act(no plowing around watersheds etc.) with PIK. PIK was prevalent in 1983-84 where up to 50% of your land could be set aside to reduce surplus. Unless you are growing sugar cane in Michigan, I dont think you meet the requirements to participate in this subsidy. Finally we already have ethanol and hydrogen fuel cells, they simply cost more to use than petroleum does right now but when oil becomes too expensive, they will become economically feasible. Hope this clears thing up.

Im beginning to wonder if you know anything of what you are talking about. The government doesnt subsidize corn to produce ethenol, they have been subsidizing corn way before enthenol was even a thought. They have been doing it to keep the farmer in business when for years the price of grain has been so low that the farmer couldnt keep afloat on his own. I think you are confused, what you must be referring to is the government subsidizing of ethanol production to put into gasoline because as you said it can not make it on its own. And there is no FALSE demand for grain, it is really there. Just ask any trader and he will tell you we are at historic lows on our reserves. Between the ethanol production, countries like china and india consumption sky rocketing and the weak US dollar allowing places like europe to purchase at 40% lower than we can the prices are high prices because the product just isnt there. And as for this pik program you speak of, its not even prevalent anymore. The program that is the main stay is called CRP (conservation reserve program) which is very different from PIK. And yes I think that unless someone has been living under a rock somewhere, everyone know we already have hydrogen and ethanol. My point for hopefully the last time is we need to spend way more money to make them feasible.

[JohnDoe]

What is a fishing boat doing when it goes slow and has baited rods out back?

[footnlongline]

While the price of fuel itself may not keep people of the water, the other costs have risen because of fuel may. As all the other items we need to purchase rise there is less and less money to purchase fuel for recreational activities. A local campground was full for the Easter Weekend, people just could afford the fuel costs to their normal destinations.

watch it <a href="http://work.mullen.com/clients/grain-foods/video7.php" target="_blank">http://work.mullen.com/clients/grain-foods/video7.php</a>

I have a few problems with mr becks analysis.

1. whats so weird about farmers wanting to make money.... dont you have to do that to stay in business?

2. he talks about wheat up 50% hurting people that cant make their morgage payment ?! that comparison is the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard..... dont buy a house you cant afford !!!!

3. and if these farming industries go to south america whats going to happen to all the land that is farmed now? just grow some dandolions on it ? No.. someone will farm it like they have for generations...

My answer to mr beck is if you want to make this country better.... get rid of the lawyers and the ridiculous lawsuits they bring that cost us billions a year to fight in court. Cut CEO pay... getting a 400 mil dollar severance is OC especially when the stock price is in the tank!!! and my final thought is if we can build a nuclear bomb in 5 yrs why cant we put the same effort to safe hydrogen.... I think the payoff would be way better than the bomb, the only thing its really good for is mutually assured destruction. at least with ethenol there is no radioactive juice that will be a danger to everything within miles for centuries !!

DO YOUR HOMEWORK before making asinine statements. Nobody is blaming the farmers, it's congress. The fact is we had the Ag commodities all sewn up in the 70's until Carter's blunder with the grain embargo on the Soviet Union. This brilliant policy didn't hurt Russia but it virtually wiped out the family farm with the stoke of a pen. BTW the biggest benefactors of this were South American farms. As to leaving the fields grow weeds, google the governments PIK program (payment in kind) It's a subsidy as well where the farmers are/were paid to plant nothing. You see my misinformed friend, its because of misguided policy by the Dems like low interest loans on big machinery the farmers didn't need and couldn't afford that were disigned to bail out companies like International McCormick and Massey Fergeson that a large portion of our family farms fell to big business. This is why rural states are RED. The alternative fuels you speak of are not yet cost effective, This is why you don't see them used much. When the price of oil reaches the threashold where demand drops off drastically, you will see demand for alternative energry sources rise and the change will slowly occure. Remember, when you smoke too much pot, it clouds your judgment.

Well Im not going to stoop to the level of calling you asinine or accuse you of doing drugs... but I think that it is you that needs to do some homework. For one, what does the embargo have to do with alt energy? Two, my family has farmed for 80 yrs and we had no prob getting threw it, the only people that went under or got hurt that you speak of is the morons that did what the people in the morgage melt down done... bought s*** they couldnt afford. And yes the government does pay for us not to plant some ground, but it is miniscule. For ex. it is only allowed for 60 feet along woods, creeks or watersheds through the fields that would grow next to nothing anyway. For a smart guy like yourself, I would have thought you to know that. And for the last part of your comment, THAT WAS MY WHOLE POINT !!! Why do you think ethenol is here in the first place !!! Put an effort like we did in building the bomb to make alt energy ie hydrogen, ethenol into something that is economical enough to replace oil !!! sheesh

I'll try to make it simple. The government is subsidizing corn to produce ethanol. This creates a false demand which in turn drives up the price of corn.

Because of this, when farmers do their projected partial budgets, corn is a attractive no brainer for them. More farmers producing corn = less producing wheat. Less wheat on the market without less demand = higher wheat prices. Foreign markets can now compete for that demand for wheat. The grain embargo on Russia opened up markets for foreign competition, we had little viable competition prior to that. This senario runs the same risk. Using corn to produce ethanol is not viable because it uses more energy to produce it than it yields. So as you can see this smacks of a pork barrel project. As for your plantings, I believe you are confusing the Soil Conservation Act(no plowing around watersheds etc.) with PIK. PIK was prevalent in 1983-84 where up to 50% of your land could be set aside to reduce surplus. Unless you are growing sugar cane in Michigan, I dont think you meet the requirements to participate in this subsidy. Finally we already have ethanol and hydrogen fuel cells, they simply cost more to use than petroleum does right now but when oil becomes too expensive, they will become economically feasible. Hope this clears thing up.

Im beginning to wonder if you know anything of what you are talking about. The government doesnt subsidize corn to produce ethenol, they have been subsidizing corn way before enthenol was even a thought. They have been doing it to keep the farmer in business when for years the price of grain has been so low that the farmer couldnt keep afloat on his own. I think you are confused, what you must be referring to is the government subsidizing of ethanol production to put into gasoline because as you said it can not make it on its own. And there is no FALSE demand for grain, it is really there. Just ask any trader and he will tell you we are at historic lows on our reserves. Between the ethanol production, countries like china and india consumption sky rocketing and the weak US dollar allowing places like europe to purchase at 40% lower than we can the prices are high prices because the product just isnt there. And as for this pik program you speak of, its not even prevalent anymore. The program that is the main stay is called CRP (conservation reserve program) which is very different from PIK. And yes I think that unless someone has been living under a rock somewhere, everyone know we already have hydrogen and ethanol. My point for hopefully the last time is we need to spend way more money to make them feasible.

just do a search on corn subsidies for ethanol production

Edited March 28, 2008 by footnlongline

[Malibuman]

Simma down now, just simma down folks! Thought I would add some humor here!

[NvBoarder]

Simma down now, just simma down folks! Thought I would add some humor here!

I like that

[Guest J-Ro]

Many economists testified yesterday that Oil should be around $55 barrel and the difference in actual price is part the falling dollar and mostly speculation. The SEC may move to increase margin requirements to 50% from 7-10%. This would help deflate the bubble but is about the only thing the govt can do in the short term outside of using the SPR.

Edited April 4, 2008 by J-Ro