Diamond hull

[WaveMake'nLSV]

FWIW....I have had several amateur OUTLAW riders behind my boat and they have no problem throwing 540s, tantrums, rally's, roll to reverts, you name it. And MINE is a diamond hull...although MOST of what you describe is accurate. The REAL world difference for anyone less than PRO level rider is so mininum that my local dealer orders 100% of his VLX and LSVs on the Diamond Hull.

Just my $.02/worth,

the wake hull is narrower than a dimond hull

with the wake hull the water making up the wake is alot harder so insted of riding through the wake on the dimond hull the wake hull pops you strait up

you got jibbed by your dealer

with the dimond hull if you load it up there is no where near the size wake if you loaded up the wake hull with the same amount of ballast

you will be able to progress behind a dimond hull but your never going to land pro level tricks behind the dimond hull

the way to tell the difference between the two hulls is

dimond chimes concave over themselves holding air under the hull making it sit higher in the water it also has a larger flat sop than the wake hull in the rudder area of the hull

wake hull chimes dont concave over themselves and there is a smaller flat spot where the rudder is at the back of the hull

[CTSunsetter]

Just happen to take a Sunscape 20 and a VTX Wakesetter out for test drive/ski last week and finally going through the pictures tonight. I captured the hull difference:

[snowrider]

This is an interesting thread. Why doesn't Malibu's site show that different boats can come with different hulls. The only boat in the wakeboard line that shows an optional hull under model specs seems to be the VTX. We have a vride that has a SV23 Wake hull, but has the concave as shown in the photos. Is it because it is an older hull design that is just now called a Wake hull. I haven't seen a vride with a different style of hull, but perhaps there are some?

[bu2007vlx]

Yo, you paid way too much money to not get what you wanted. If you are sure you said wake hull take the boat back!!!!!(let us know how it ends up?)

[GoldschlagerVT]

To all of the people saying that the dealer took advantage of him, there's a reason why you hear "Try it before you buy it" on this site over and over. I'm sorry to say it, but if the dealer told you that it had a Diamond Hull, and you were skeptical, but still didn't try the boat before buying it, you can only blame yourself.

Edited August 23, 2007 by GoldschlagerVT

[Mike00LXI]

the wake hull is narrower than a dimond hull

with the wake hull the water making up the wake is alot harder so insted of riding through the wake on the dimond hull the wake hull pops you strait up

you got jibbed by your dealer

with the dimond hull if you load it up there is no where near the size wake if you loaded up the wake hull with the same amount of ballast

you will be able to progress behind a dimond hull but your never going to land pro level tricks behind the dimond hull

the way to tell the difference between the two hulls is

dimond chimes concave over themselves holding air under the hull making it sit higher in the water it also has a larger flat sop than the wake hull in the rudder area of the hull

wake hull chimes dont concave over themselves and there is a smaller flat spot where the rudder is at the back of the hull

That statement is full of s***. I have seen plenty of people throw pro level tricks behind my boat which is a direct drive on a diamond hull FWIW

[Malibudude]

the wake hull is narrower than a dimond hull

with the wake hull the water making up the wake is alot harder so insted of riding through the wake on the dimond hull the wake hull pops you strait up

you got jibbed by your dealer

with the dimond hull if you load it up there is no where near the size wake if you loaded up the wake hull with the same amount of ballast

you will be able to progress behind a dimond hull but your never going to land pro level tricks behind the dimond hull

the way to tell the difference between the two hulls is

dimond chimes concave over themselves holding air under the hull making it sit higher in the water it also has a larger flat sop than the wake hull in the rudder area of the hull

wake hull chimes dont concave over themselves and there is a smaller flat spot where the rudder is at the back of the hull

That statement is full of s***. I have seen plenty of people throw pro level tricks behind my boat which is a direct drive on a diamond hull FWIW

J-ro has thrown two consecutive tantrums behind my puny SLXI wake....It's harder to do no doubt though mostly it’s a lack of technique.

[WakeGirl]

Yeah well its depressing. All we do is wakeboard. And really I feel like not wakeboarding anymore. Im happy we have a decent boat but really the wake behind it holds me back as a rider. We did ask questions and I was really sceptical of the hull being a crossover/more aimed for slalom. The dealer knew we were looking for a wakeboard boat, and he knew I was a decent rider looking for a big wake. We tooled with the wedge for a while and found the best to be at 1/2 way, but still not a good wake at all. I really didnt want to have to be filling sacs every session.

Are you the buyer of this boat (paid with money you earned) or are you a minor who's parents bought a beautiful new boat? You don't sound like the person that actually paid to me but I'm asking because I don't like to assume.

I'm curious about this as well. If it is indeed your parents that bought the boat, are they as upset about the wake as you seem to be?

This is an interesting thread. Why doesn't Malibu's site show that different boats can come with different hulls. The only boat in the wakeboard line that shows an optional hull under model specs seems to be the VTX. We have a vride that has a SV23 Wake hull, but has the concave as shown in the photos. Is it because it is an older hull design that is just now called a Wake hull. I haven't seen a vride with a different style of hull, but perhaps there are some?

I'd be interested in seeing a picture of that. The Ride Series isn't supposed to be available on the diamond hull.

[Brad B]

natman et al -

Y'all are not correct.

I have a diamond hull and would challenge you to produce a better wake than me.

If you can't ride the absolutely supreme wake that my LSV puts out

then you do truly SUCK as a rider.

And then I can still slalom it when empty and at 34mph

[JohnDoe]

the wake hull is narrower than a dimond hull

with the wake hull the water making up the wake is alot harder so insted of riding through the wake on the dimond hull the wake hull pops you strait up

you got jibbed by your dealer

with the dimond hull if you load it up there is no where near the size wake if you loaded up the wake hull with the same amount of ballast

you will be able to progress behind a dimond hull but your never going to land pro level tricks behind the dimond hull

the way to tell the difference between the two hulls is

dimond chimes concave over themselves holding air under the hull making it sit higher in the water it also has a larger flat sop than the wake hull in the rudder area of the hull

wake hull chimes dont concave over themselves and there is a smaller flat spot where the rudder is at the back of the hull

That statement is full of s***. I have seen plenty of people throw pro level tricks behind my boat which is a direct drive on a diamond hull FWIW

Yes that is one of the more ridiculous things I have ever seen posted. When I first started wakeboarding in the early 90s the biggest wakes we had were 2001 ski nautiques and barefoot nautiques. No skylon, no ballast, just a puny hump and we learned plenty of inverts off that. Not saying "plenty of inverts" is prolevel, but comparatively speaking, you don't need a "wake" hull VD to land "pro-level" moves. Crow 7s, big worms, slim chances, and moby dicks were all invented prior to real wakes and certainly on wakes smaller than a diamond VD. I think the entire wake boat market is just spoiled, quite frankly.

[oldfooter]

Just happen to take a Sunscape 20 and a VTX Wakesetter out for test drive/ski last week and finally going through the pictures tonight. I captured the hull difference:

So...the top photo is the diamond hull??

[JohnDoe]

yes

[Liquidmx]

This whole "well a pro landed a trick behind a ski boat, the wake doesnt matter" business is a common falicy. There really is a difference between "landing a trick" and having fun behind the wake. Most amateur level riders look at a tantrum or 5 and think that since they landed the trick the setup is just as good or comparatively as good. The reality is that even an advanced level wake (not even pro) can make a HUGE impact on both progression and tricks. Yah that pro/outlaw rider was able to throw some tricks behind your wake, but where they grabbed well, maybe stalled out and/or tweaked? Personally I dont remember anyone doing things like TS BS OA Indy 180's back then, a trick that requires a lot of vertical height. Plus they rode a lot slower and at shorter lengths. In fact many pro riders I have talked to are somewhat "wake hungry" these days, refusing to ride behind boats without a decent weight in them.

Overall, yes a pro rider rips behind any boat, guaranteed. Are his tricks going to be the same, no! Even at the advanced level a bigger wake can help with learning the fundamentals of a new trick and speed progression and result in less injuries. Take a trick that would require "hucking" off a small wake to a big wake and the rider can now see better, less huck means more control and a softer fall (even if he is higher up). I.E. a simple scarecrow, much more control, less huckage etc. Plus take a scarecrow, add a nice large landing ramp (a big wake 2 wake) and even if he accidentally landed straight legged, the wake can help save his ACL. Where as a landing in the flats from a hucked trick can be disasterous. Or maybe going out the front on a BS 180. If you can spot a landing when coming down and recognize your out of position, it can save your knees. And lets not forget more weight = longer line lengths and faster speeds. Meaning better setup time and less back strain, less in the flats landings and more w2w.

I make this point since a lot of people who ride at a beginner/intermediate simply don't have the experience or knowledge to decide the benefits of a large wake.

FWIW: I grew up behind an unweighted 89 sunsetter, and now ride behind my heavily weighted 00 wakesetter. I have ridden many boats with large at small wakes throughout my experience of riding.

John Doe, do you have footage of a Crow 7 behind one of these older boats? Maybe it was an TS off seven since they can look somewhat similar. Crow 5's are just now being thrown in comps.

Edited August 23, 2007 by Liquidmx

[snowrider]

I don't really understand this. Every vride I have seen looks like the top photo. Anyone have something different?

[jpk]

Somewhat related, but shouldn't there be a different wedge design for the Diamond hull? Might want to check that you got the right wedge to match the hull design.

Mine is a V-ride/Wake and the wedge foil is angled, like an upside down V. I think the Diamond hull wedge should be a flat foil. Maybe that will help?

[JohnDoe]

This whole "well a pro landed a trick behind a ski boat, the wake doesnt matter" business is a common falicy. There really is a difference between "landing a trick" and having fun behind the wake. Most amateur level riders look at a tantrum or 5 and think that since they landed the trick the setup is just as good or comparatively as good. The reality is that even an advanced level wake (not even pro) can make a HUGE impact on both progression and tricks. Yah that pro/outlaw rider was able to throw some tricks behind your wake, but where they grabbed well, maybe stalled out and/or tweaked? Personally I dont remember anyone doing things like TS BS OA Indy 180's back then, a trick that requires a lot of vertical height. Plus they rode a lot slower and at shorter lengths. In fact many pro riders I have talked to are somewhat "wake hungry" these days, refusing to ride behind boats without a decent weight in them.

Overall, yes a pro rider rips behind any boat, guaranteed. Are his tricks going to be the same, no! Even at the advanced level a bigger wake can help with learning the fundamentals of a new trick and speed progression and result in less injuries. Take a trick that would require "hucking" off a small wake to a big wake and the rider can now see better, less huck means more control and a softer fall (even if he is higher up). I.E. a simple scarecrow, much more control, less huckage etc. Plus take a scarecrow, add a nice large landing ramp (a big wake 2 wake) and even if he accidentally landed straight legged, the wake can help save his ACL. Where as a landing in the flats from a hucked trick can be disasterous. Or maybe going out the front on a BS 180. If you can spot a landing when coming down and recognize your out of position, it can save your knees. And lets not forget more weight = longer line lengths and faster speeds. Meaning better setup time and less back strain, less in the flats landings and more w2w.

I make this point since a lot of people who ride at a beginner/intermediate simply don't have the experience or knowledge to decide the benefits of a large wake.

FWIW: I grew up behind an unweighted 89 sunsetter, and now ride behind my heavily weighted 00 wakesetter. I have ridden many boats with large at small wakes throughout my experience of riding.

John Doe, do you have footage of a Crow 7 behind one of these older boats? Maybe it was an TS off seven since they can look somewhat similar. Crow 5's are just now being thrown in comps.

Actually I screwed up and meant to seperate those, I meant: crow mobes, AND 7s, of which I do have footage of byerly doing the first "real" (cory pickos doesn't count ) 720, which was Byerly in "Skurf's Up". (On a sidenote, the best wakeboarding vid of all time) behind an early 90's style DD MC as I recall. Todd Brendel was also throwing diesels and many others, skeezers, behind just an ol' DD and a pylon with a ski rope. Did they have to charge, sure, but they could boot off anything...ever seen gator's front to fakie in "mayday" off a sport nautique?...OMG!!!

[Mike00LXI]

This whole "well a pro landed a trick behind a ski boat, the wake doesnt matter" business is a common falicy. There really is a difference between "landing a trick" and having fun behind the wake. Most amateur level riders look at a tantrum or 5 and think that since they landed the trick the setup is just as good or comparatively as good. The reality is that even an advanced level wake (not even pro) can make a HUGE impact on both progression and tricks. Yah that pro/outlaw rider was able to throw some tricks behind your wake, but where they grabbed well, maybe stalled out and/or tweaked? Personally I dont remember anyone doing things like TS BS OA Indy 180's back then, a trick that requires a lot of vertical height. Plus they rode a lot slower and at shorter lengths. In fact many pro riders I have talked to are somewhat "wake hungry" these days, refusing to ride behind boats without a decent weight in them.

Overall, yes a pro rider rips behind any boat, guaranteed. Are his tricks going to be the same, no! Even at the advanced level a bigger wake can help with learning the fundamentals of a new trick and speed progression and result in less injuries. Take a trick that would require "hucking" off a small wake to a big wake and the rider can now see better, less huck means more control and a softer fall (even if he is higher up). I.E. a simple scarecrow, much more control, less huckage etc. Plus take a scarecrow, add a nice large landing ramp (a big wake 2 wake) and even if he accidentally landed straight legged, the wake can help save his ACL. Where as a landing in the flats from a hucked trick can be disasterous. Or maybe going out the front on a BS 180. If you can spot a landing when coming down and recognize your out of position, it can save your knees. And lets not forget more weight = longer line lengths and faster speeds. Meaning better setup time and less back strain, less in the flats landings and more w2w.

I make this point since a lot of people who ride at a beginner/intermediate simply don't have the experience or knowledge to decide the benefits of a large wake.

FWIW: I grew up behind an unweighted 89 sunsetter, and now ride behind my heavily weighted 00 wakesetter. I have ridden many boats with large at small wakes throughout my experience of riding.

John Doe, do you have footage of a Crow 7 behind one of these older boats? Maybe it was an TS off seven since they can look somewhat similar. Crow 5's are just now being thrown in comps.

First of all, I never said that a pro wakeboarder landed tricks behind my boat. I said I've had plenty of people (not pro's) land pro level tricks behind my boat. I disagree with you completely. A few fat sacks and the wedge down and my diamond hull wake is "large enough" to do most any trick outside of 720, etc. but how many people on average are doing those anyway? I've thrown big backrolls with tons of vertical and clean landings all day long on a diamond hull. Smaller wakes force the rider to have better technique. Huge wakes often produce lazy riders. JMHO. I know this because my houseboat neighbor has a VLX that I ride behind. I can afford to be lazier behind his boat. You also have to consider the relative size of wake I am referring to. FYI the sunsetter wake w/diamond hull does produce a good size wake when properly weighted. That was my point. It should be even better with a V drive if you add weight to it. If we were talking about a tiny wake I would probably agree with you. If we're talking relative extremes then wake does matter but the difference between a weighted diamond hull and a VLX is not so significant as to make it not possible for the average Joe to do equivalent tricks behind one or the other. Sure this is my opinion but it most certainly isn't a common fallacy (BTW you spelled it wrong)

[SacRiverRat]

Sure anyone can do tricks off a smaller wake - that isn't the point. Big wakes are fun - you guys are gettin' all high n mighty on who "neeeeeds" a big wake and who doesn't.

I've ridden behind a sea-doo, that wake sucks, maybe if I work on my technique, I can do some backrolls

[Malibudude]

Sure anyone can do tricks off a smaller wake - that isn't the point. Big wakes are fun - you guys are gettin' all high n mighty on who "neeeeeds" a big wake and who doesn't.

I've ridden behind a sea-doo, that wake sucks, maybe if I work on my technique, I can do some backrolls

You suck from the lack of getting the boat out.....

[Liquidmx]

Mike, I did not intend on singling you out (or anyone else really) sorry if it came off that way (or I misspelled a word or two). As long as my point was read by others I am happy with that. I think a lot of people get high and mighty regarding how much weight to add. Whether that is boat goggles, or something else is beyond me. Personally I enjoy riding behind a large wake (regardless of boat), its much more enjoyable and yes "easier" to do the same tricks since there is no need to "huck". I guess my overall goal was to inform people that there is a benefit from adding weight (at least to the coaches and riders I have talked with). The general rule in my boat is if you cannot go w2w grabbed toeside at 80 ft you dont need the extra lbs. That tends to force people to develop good habits before stepping up to a bigger wake. (plus it gets rid of the heelside hero effect!).

I guess overall I strayed from the subject of "diamond hull" to try and add some personal insight to a common argument.

John: mayday is one of my all time favorites, right there with Hit it! Long live the OG's!

P.S. Anyone else seen the vid Westside? Some serious stuff goes on there! And Randy's part in Natural Born Thrillaz... BAMM!

[SacRiverRat]

Sure anyone can do tricks off a smaller wake - that isn't the point. Big wakes are fun - you guys are gettin' all high n mighty on who "neeeeeds" a big wake and who doesn't.

I've ridden behind a sea-doo, that wake sucks, maybe if I work on my technique, I can do some backrolls

You suck from the lack of getting the boat out.....

Yea, that and my weak diamond hull wake..

Guess we lost natman a long time ago on this thread - surprise surprise

I love how people pop on, stir it up- and then we're just left here debating amongst ourselves

[Baddog]

Sure anyone can do tricks off a smaller wake - that isn't the point. Big wakes are fun - you guys are gettin' all high n mighty on who "neeeeeds" a big wake and who doesn't.

I've ridden behind a sea-doo, that wake sucks, maybe if I work on my technique, I can do some backrolls

You suck from the lack of getting the boat out.....

Yea, that and my weak diamond hull wake..

Guess we lost natman a long time ago on this thread - surprise surprise

I love how people pop on, stir it up- and then we're just left here debating amongst ourselves

However, being left by ourselves from some of these one hit non-wonders is a good thing, eh?

[natman29]

Actually Im here. And for one im a decent rider behind my diamond hull VLX. Backrolls, tantrums, hs/ts 180's and 360's, hs 5's. But Ive gotten to the point that I feel im being held back with the wake behind my boat.

[Liquidmx]

Nat, how are your BS spins? That's a trick that can be worked on behind just about any setup. What about your switch stuff, that comes REALLY fast when you work on it! I am just making suggestions on areas to work on that are commonly overlooked and help yah out bro.

When pulling a local pro earlier this summer I was inspired to really work on my spins this year. All I could see in the mirror was the guy spinnin like a top on axis, off axis, BS, FS, every which way! It was SOOOO cool to get past the whole "invert craze" to stuff that actually takes some showmanship to do, lol. I only say this since I myself was very invert happy for the past few years, in fact I landed a whirly before I ever learned BS 180's, yes I am embarassed, lol. Now I would rather watch spinning over flipping any day of the week. I get WAY more pumped off a TS BS 180 than just about any basic invert out there.

[JohnDoe]

But Ive gotten to the point that I feel im being held back with the wake behind my boat.

You're not. In fact you have it quite good. As I said before, people were going off back in the day with no ballast, no tower, no nothing other than guts and some willpower. Heck the first guy to do a wake to wake kickflip only had a pontoon boat to train behind. That didn't hold him up!