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Slalom course magnets


trevorb

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I was going to add some magnets to my slalom course and I was wondering if I can get by with just the entrance and exit gate magnets. I really don't need the accuracy of split timing, but I'm not sure if perfect pass will still work properly with only 4 magnets.

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I was going to add some magnets to my slalom course and I was wondering if I can get by with just the entrance and exit gate magnets. I really don't need the accuracy of split timing, but I'm not sure if perfect pass will still work properly with only 4 magnets.

in standard operation, PP needs the split timing. I'm not sure you can set up PP to ignore splits (EDIT: and it might depend on what version of PP you have).

I would go ahead and get all six. you probably spent close to $1k for the PP, how much for your ski, the rest of the course... it's only $13.50 each for the slalom economy magnet from skier to skier.

Edited by Addictedto6
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yep you need 6 if you want times. also i think over that distance the timer may time out and therefore you will drop gate percent (when the boat adds rpm when you go through the gates) and therefor the boat may slow a bit..? dont hold me to that though.. :unsure:

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It's my understanding that you're correct Toby...Why not get 8 and do really right though? gate, 1 ball, 3ball, exit?

Get 8? Do you mean for all buoy timing?

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It's my understanding that you're correct Toby...Why not get 8 and do really right though? gate, 1 ball, 3ball, exit?

What happens when you drop, shorten the rope, and come back into the course? The the magnets would be at gate, 3ball, 6 ball, gate. Fingerwag.gif

Edited by Lakenut
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to have basic timing you need 6 magnets and 1 smart timer. all 4 gate balls and on three ball guide (which is 2 different balls (3+4) because of which way you come from into the course) and on different sides of the course, so it is not triggered at gate,3,4, end gate... im not sure what it would do actually(never done it). the boat thinks it is doing 2 segment timing and then it gets 4 ball time as well, doubt it would think it is end gate magnet, but dont know. not worth trying to think about it.

to run ABT (all buoy timing) you do need 8. gates and all 6 boat guides, all on the same side. but you also need two smart timers or you will have to swap the timer to the other side of the boat before every pass. bit of a PITA but not bad. have to do this sometimes at my main site where i ski.

but for trevorb's case 6 would be fine. there is no difference in the pull with 6 and 8, its only for times. If you are not having tournaments at this site you dont need it, thats the only reason for ABT. so if someone scores 2.5, the three ball time is checked to see if it is in tolerance. without a skier skiing PP runs hot and a fast time will occur. ABT takes away some of the human error, saves having to use the old button to take out the skier value until the next magnet to get a tolerance time, which was the case with the 2 segment method.

Edited by Toby
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i re read your post john doe and i think i get why you think gate,1,3 gate.

the boat will always beep at a skier gate, whenever it thinks it is a skeir gate. i will also beep at one, just to let you know it is timing in ABT, it takes a time at 2 ball but does not beep. as always it beeps at 3. it takes times at all points in the course but doesnt always beep.

is that what you meant?

Edited by Toby
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Thanks guys, I was just wondering if I could get away with 4 magnets for my course. I thought I read somewhere that you could but I wasn't too sure about it. My course takes quite a beating during the summer with tubers and big waves on windy days. I just figured if I had less magnets in the course it would be less to replace during the summer. I've never had the magnets installed in my course. I'm not really too concerned about tournament accuracy, I just wanted to know the times. I guess I could always try a pass with just the 4 magnets in and report back what happens. I think it would just end up confusing perfect pass. I'm going to plan on using 6 magnets for it this summer.

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For the Tourney skiers. I haven't skied in MANY years, never skied a course and probably won't restart again but I can't be the only one wondering how this works...

Either here or start another post, would you explain these setups and how they work with the magnets and perfect pass in the course? Does the boat pick up the magnets and adjust speed or does it just work for timing? Any and all enlightening will be much appreciated. Somebody take me to school...

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any idea what a smart timer is worth ? I'm thinking of adding the second timer to my 6.5ng as our course is often missing a magnet or two and thought it may help

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any idea what a smart timer is worth ? I'm thinking of adding the second timer to my 6.5ng as our course is often missing a magnet or two and thought it may help

The cheapest smart timer I found was $199.00

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For the Tourney skiers. I haven't skied in MANY years, never skied a course and probably won't restart again but I can't be the only one wondering how this works...

Either here or start another post, would you explain these setups and how they work with the magnets and perfect pass in the course? Does the boat pick up the magnets and adjust speed or does it just work for timing? Any and all enlightening will be much appreciated. Somebody take me to school...

ill have a try...

when setting up a boat a pass needs to be done with no skier to establish a baseline rpm. a time is taken after the boat goes through at a set speed eg 36mph, and PP suggests how many rpm need to be added or taken away from this baseline to get a perfect time. you will adjust this. so with no wind and only the crew weight set you should get a near perfect time within .01 or .02 (at worst) over and over again from the perfect time. at 36mph this is 16.08 seconds over the 259m length of the course.

when towing a skier the weight of the skier, wind, crew weight in the boat are put into PP, it takes a percentage of these parameters and adds this calculated rpm to the baseline rpm.

yes the pull does change in the course. firstly there is a parameter called gate percent (G%) which is a %age of the skier weight, i dont know what the percentage is but it is not much, and rpm is added when the boat goes through the skier gates. once the boat goes past the three ball magnet another setting called SSB or second segment balance comes into play. this takes out rpm to stop the boat running fast. malibu and mastercraft hulls are 'fast' hulls. they are reasonably effecient and over the length of the course with the same rpm the speed of the boat will increase slightly. for bu's the recommended setting is 10. so this means 10 rpm are taken away from the baseline from three ball to the end gates. in ski antiques the hull because of its obvious difference in shape does not run fast as easily and the SSB is 5, it runs with higher rpm and therefore torque so in THEORY the antiques give a more consistent pull Whistling.gif

in the course the goal of PP is to keep rpm the same not vary it. this is the downside to PP, it is rpm and time based not speed based which the new GPS based zero off is.

then on top of all this there is KX and PX... it goes on and on Cry.gif

so a skier on the dock can in theory say "36mph, 165lb KX- PX10 with an rpm offset of 15 thanks" its crazy Crazy.gif

hopefully that made some sense. its a start.

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That sort of makes sense. So the magnets are for timing the boat without a skier?

The magnets don't have any adjustment to the RPM while the skier is in the course?

If a skier says "36mph, 165lb KX- PX10 with an rpm offset of 15 thanks", can one assume that those settings are consistent from location to location? Meaning does he always use that setting?

Do the gate magnets start & stop the time while the skier ball magnets just locate the boat in the course?

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"So the magnets are for timing the boat without a skier? "

no. times are always needed for every skier (in a tourney situation anyway). i was just trying to give a bit more background info into setting it up correctly.

"The magnets don't have any adjustment to the RPM while the skier is in the course?"

correct, except for SSB

"If a skier says "36mph, 165lb KX- PX10 with an rpm offset of 15 thanks", can one assume that those settings are consistent from location to location? Meaning does he always use that setting?"

yes. if the version of PP is the same (eg 6.4 or 6.5) and the baselines are correct the pull should be the same. the computer (PP) controls the engine the same in all situations and all boats.

"Do the gate magnets start & stop the time while the skier ball magnets just locate the boat in the course?"

yeah. there is no difference in the magnets, PP just figures out that if it hasnt had a trigger from the magnet after around three seconds or so the 2 segment method of timing is being used and not all buoy timing. for example if someone falls around 2 ball in a tournament the 2 ball time is checked to see if it is within the tolerance. this is 4.22 seconds at 36mph. so from the gates to two ball. if this time is slower than 4.28 it is out of tolerance and the skier has to try the pass again.

with 2 segment timing it gives you an overall time and the split times of gates to three and 3 to end gates.

this is making me Crazy.gif:lol:

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Thanks Toby, it is starting to be a little easier to understand. I never knew it was so involved. I can see where a GPS guided system might be better.

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I was going to add some magnets to my slalom course and I was wondering if I can get by with just the entrance and exit gate magnets. I really don't need the accuracy of split timing, but I'm not sure if perfect pass will still work properly with only 4 magnets.

You can use 4 magnets if you have 2 smart timers and line the magnets on 1 side of the course gates,3,4 buoys

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