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chathamsolutions

Houseboats - in NorCal

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chathamsolutions

At Powell you can buy into a houseboat LLC and own a specific week, or multiple weeks on one boat. The LLC owns the boat and you own a fraction of the boat.

This is commonplace at Powell and I understand at Havasu as well. Wondering if it happens anywhere in NorCal? There are some big lakes and lots of houseboats, I would be surprised if it didn't exist and an industry around it.

Anyone have any info?

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chadellt85

I know somebody that is a partial owner of a nice houseboat at Shasta. I think there are 12 owners. They get 1 summer week and then two winter weeks( not used much, so the schedule is fairly open) My parents looked at buying in, but decided they wanted the flexibility to try different boats and different lakes. I dont know the any of the details besides that, sorry. Chad

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chathamsolutions

So you know of people that do it, that's good.

Does anyone know of any brokers / agents that help facilitate this type of thing?

There's whole resorts set up around this at Powell.

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Deltawake
So you know of people that do it, that's good.

Does anyone know of any brokers / agents that help facilitate this type of thing?

There's whole resorts set up around this at Powell.

Andy- We own shares in just such a boat at Shasta. I believe that there is at least one week for sale. (The week including Labor day weekend is for sale.) We have bought a brand new boat which will be on the water this month. PM me if you want more details.

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chathamsolutions

PM sent.

If anyone else has info, please let me know.

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chathamsolutions

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WakeGirl

Just out of morbid curiosity, what does a week like that typically cost?

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chathamsolutions

It depends on the houseboat.

Friend of ours bought 3 weeks (one during the main summer months) on an older HB for 12K about 5 years ago.

You also have to consider annual dues - $500.

Gas for the HB, generators to run everything, including AC - this is variable, but say $500.

Cleanout at the end of the week - I think $300

And on his boat, they would also have to pony up for maintenence. They had to replace an engine after one of our runs.

The boat we were on had 4 cabins, a big rumpus room for kids up top and a big deck. The little kids slept in the rumpus room and the older ones slept in lawn chairs on the deck.

- Everything was split 4 ways - between the 4 families that went. Everything except the initial $12K. Whoever they invited, they explained the way things worked and had them split the costs at the end of the vacation. It worked out well.

Today, you'll look to pay apx. $20K for a 2000-2004 HB. I think that was for two weeks.

Annual Dues are $500-1000. The higher the dues the more money is in the LLC and the less likely you are to get a call that says they need money to replace; engine, sofa, DVDplayer, etc.

You still have cleanout fees of $300+

Brand new boats can run you upwards of $40K for a week. The initial depreciation is a bear.

If you have a family, or two or three or four, you always go with, you could literally all buy into 'one week' and split the $20K. Then you'd have a permanent group to go vacationing with. We've been vacationing with the same group for about 10 years now.

Those are the numbers I remember from Powell. I'd be interested to see what they look like on some boats in NorCal.

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SacRiverRat

how long is the time-share for? The life of the boat? 10yrs, 20yrs?

Seems sorta steep depending on how long it is good for. Especially if there is a risk that they come back to you asking for more money becuase they're falling behind on repairs

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chathamsolutions

Ya, on a new HB it's steep. But I'm not looking at that route. We've got 3 families that would buy in for sure at or around $20K. So, apx. $6,500 each. Then we all split the maintenance every year. We also invite a fourth family each year so more to split amongst.

- As timeshares go - that's incredibly cheap.

The HB is owned within an LLC. The LLC owns it outright. It can do what it wants with the boat. So as a group, if you decide to sell it and look to buy a new one, it can. Also, the $500+ dues go to the LLC every year. Each owner is paying that yearly. Say you sell June, July and Aug out completely, so 12 owners. And let's say another 3 owners buy in as well. That would give you 15 owners on one boat, each could have 3 weeks.

- 15 x $750 = $9,000 annually.

If you're putting $9,000 into the LLC piggy bank every year, I'd think you'd have enough money to keep everything running fine (but I may be waaaaay off). And you split that $750 between the 3-4 families that go with you. Obviously if you're doing it on your own, it would be harder to swallow.

It's my understanding that the boats hit a point where the weeks are worth apx. $12k and then don't drop below that for a number of years. I'd say at probably 15+years. The boat we were on was over 10 years old.

**I don't own one, but have enough information to be dangerous (friends and clients that own) - which means I may be way off on a point or two. So please forgive if that's the case.

The numbers look to make sense, and my friends are happy with thier investment. Our kids had a blast the couple years we went to Powell. It's just a killer drive. I'd love to do it in NorCal.

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LS-One

Wow, seems expensive, for a week or two a year.

You don't want your own boat closer to home so you can use it more and personalize it ? Or may be a partner or two.

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chathamsolutions

I've had lunch with a guy in Merced who's got a HB and he talked me out of wanting to own one on my own :)

$6500 one time buy in. Assuming 3 people buy into the same three weeks. Basically 3 famillies buying 'one share'.

- When the boat is sold in the future we'd get the money out - probably a lower amount, granted. But at prevailing rates, the least we'd get would be $4K. Or sell your portion to someone else for the same amount.

And every year you end up spending on the boat:

$500 gas

$750 dues

$300 clean out

Total: 1550 / 4 = $400 per family

With the food, Bu gas, trailering gas, etc. we'd end up spending another grand to get there and back from Powell. $1500 for a weeks vacation. That's not a lot. Even Disney has adds on TV where they're talking people into spending $1600 for a week at the Worst Place On Earth.

We end up spending close to that on our trips to Lake Trinity every year - and we're camping. Having a houseboat is much better IMO. But to each his own.

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SacRiverRat

Suppose at a starting point, your closest compairson would be rental HB for a week..

Just compare week vs week, without being saddled down by multiple families (which you can still split the cost), gas is the same (don't factor that in).... and don't compare to D-land... That is how the timeshare people get ya.. "how much do you usually spend on vacation.."

A HB vacation rocks... no argument there. So the $$$ compairison is renting by the week, vs Time share ownership.. Can also compare to boat owership, though more factors to bring to the table

So in a time-share, do you actually own a portion of the boat, or just rights to a week? Many time shares only cover a limited period of time, 20yrs or something. At the end of the time, you buy more time.. but at yr 19, if you want to sell it, it isn't worth anything

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jjackkrash

This is an interesting post. We rent on lake Shuswap every other year for a week to ten days in Canada with my extended family. We think this is absolutely a fantastic way to go. We never thought of timeshare, but I would be curious to run the numbers. We usually get a 70 footer with all the extras for about 3.5 to 4k (First week in September is beautiful, but considered off-peak season). Spit amoung 4 or five families, this is pretty afforadable. Would be curious to run the numbers.

Also, I now live far away in Texas and was thinking of getting an older, smaller boat to make my own down here to use as a floating condo, to get more weekends in on the water and as a local getaway. Something 20-25 years old, 42 to 50 feet, between 15 and 45k, depending on how turn-key it is or appears to be.

What factors turned you away from outright ownership? I was also thinking of maybe something a little nicer, but splitting with three other families so we could all enjoy weekends away from home. Would love to hear some thoughts on the pros and cons of these strategies.

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WakeGirl

I would think that cost up front would be the big turnoff to outright ownership. We've looked at that & it's a hard thing to justify unless it's something that you can use almost every weekend. Even then it's a hard justification to spend that much money.

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mrothwell
It depends on the houseboat.

Friend of ours bought 3 weeks (one during the main summer months) on an older HB for 12K about 5 years ago.

You also have to consider annual dues - $500.

Gas for the HB, generators to run everything, including AC - this is variable, but say $500.

Cleanout at the end of the week - I think $300

And on his boat, they would also have to pony up for maintenence. They had to replace an engine after one of our runs.

Been on a shared ownership HB in Powell a half dozen times. You must not go very far from the marina to only put $500 of gas in. We generally figure $1200 in gas.

Somewhere in the 5 - 10 year range, the dues will need to be increased as there will be more upkeep necessary. Also, I didn't see the "mooring" fees mentioned.

Expensive for a week or 2 a year?? I think it's reasonable. It would cost > $6000 for a decent boat in a summer week at Powell. Go 5 times, there's $30K. If you paid $20K and had $1000/year (dues + cleanout) then you'd only be into it $25K and still have a share valued around $12k - $15k, so only around $10 - $13K for 5 trips, or let's just call it $2500/trip. Share that between 4 families - $625/family/year. Add in the gas and food costs and it's still a cheap vacation.

When we go, we eat well, we play hard, and we have a great time. It isn't too bad of a deal.

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SacRiverRat

It depends on the houseboat.

Friend of ours bought 3 weeks (one during the main summer months) on an older HB for 12K about 5 years ago.

You also have to consider annual dues - $500.

Gas for the HB, generators to run everything, including AC - this is variable, but say $500.

Cleanout at the end of the week - I think $300

And on his boat, they would also have to pony up for maintenence. They had to replace an engine after one of our runs.

Go 5 times, there's $30K. If you paid $20K and had $1000/year (dues + cleanout) then you'd only be into it $25K and still have a share valued around $12k - $15k, so only around $10 - $13K for 5 trips, or let's just call it $2500/trip.

Usually the maintence fee is tied to # of weeks per year, so if you went 5 times it'd be 5k/yr plus your 20k upfront.

Again, you can't compare sharing the cost with others vs the total weekly cost of renting (you'd most likely share that with others) For simplicity sake, we should compare week vs week (no shared) and assume you could split the cost somehow in either case ;)

I am interested in the numbers too - we're here speculating... sure would be interesting to compare actual data.

Cost of fuel would be the same with a rental, time-share, or personal boat... so leave that out of the equasion too..

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mrothwell

It depends on the houseboat.

Friend of ours bought 3 weeks (one during the main summer months) on an older HB for 12K about 5 years ago.

You also have to consider annual dues - $500.

Gas for the HB, generators to run everything, including AC - this is variable, but say $500.

Cleanout at the end of the week - I think $300

And on his boat, they would also have to pony up for maintenence. They had to replace an engine after one of our runs.

Go 5 times, there's $30K. If you paid $20K and had $1000/year (dues + cleanout) then you'd only be into it $25K and still have a share valued around $12k - $15k, so only around $10 - $13K for 5 trips, or let's just call it $2500/trip.

Usually the maintence fee is tied to # of weeks per year, so if you went 5 times it'd be 5k/yr plus your 20k upfront.

Again, you can't compare sharing the cost with others vs the total weekly cost of renting (you'd most likely share that with others) For simplicity sake, we should compare week vs week (no shared) and assume you could split the cost somehow in either case ;)

I am interested in the numbers too - we're here speculating... sure would be interesting to compare actual data.

Cost of fuel would be the same with a rental, time-share, or personal boat... so leave that out of the equasion too..

I was referring to 1 trip / year for 5 years.

I kept the fuel out of the equation. I also kept the "shared" aspect in.

Total cost over 5 years (1 trip/year) = $25k with residual value of $12 - 15K for the Shared ownership.

Total cost over 5 years (1 trip/year) = $30k with residual value of $0

My point is: if you are planning on using it every year - then it is a good investment in your families fun. If you are only planning on using it every 2 or 3 years, then it's better to rent

OOOOOOOoooooooooooops - MY BAD - I just checked the houseboat rates at Lake Powell

59' - $7,095 / week

75' - $10,075 / week

75' - $11,545 / week

So, to rent for 5 consecutive years = $35,500 - $57,500 with a residual of $0

The original $20k in the above example will buy a "peak-week" share in a 65' houseboat.

it'll run you around $40k for a 75' but the 75's are also wider, and you can carry more people. We had 19 on a 60' last year with no problems.

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chathamsolutions

rothwell's got it right on.

A week in Powell is closer to $7K for the size of boat we'd be using. Then you have all the gas on top of that. So really it's $7K renting and $2,500 for not.

- split either way.

Again, the buy in can be sold to someone else if you want to get out. But buying in you're gauranteed a specific week(s) every year.

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chathamsolutions

Oops. Left it open too long and he beat me to it.

I thought the Powell HB #'s were low. You're right, with a 70'+ boat it's over $10K a week.

SOOOOOO, who else knows someone that's got a HB timeshare available in NorCal????

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SacRiverRat
Again, the buy in can be sold to someone else if you want to get out. But buying in you're gauranteed a specific week(s) every year.

Ok - lets dig into this... what is the buy-in worth when you re-sell it... how would one figure that out.

Is you buy-in based on the one boat? At what point do they sell that boat and buy a new one? Who makes that decision, and then do you have to pay more... or is that covered in your maintence fees?

Paying the big bucks for a rental boat, you guarentee that you can find a newer boat to rent...

Still would be interesting to see the actual #'s. Now we're quoting big $$ for some gigantic boats on Powell, and not sure that those weekly rentals tie to the $20k buy-in and 1k/week service fee that we've been beating around

This time-share thing is always interesting to me. Once you get into the maintence fee, it seems like a pretty good deal, though I worry about the time-value of money with the big up-front payment

... interesting stuff

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pennery
This is an interesting post. We rent on lake Shuswap every other year for a week to ten days in Canada with my extended family. We think this is absolutely a fantastic way to go. We never thought of timeshare, but I would be curious to run the numbers. We usually get a 70 footer with all the extras for about 3.5 to 4k (First week in September is beautiful, but considered off-peak season). Spit amoung 4 or five families, this is pretty afforadable. Would be curious to run the numbers.

Also, I now live far away in Texas and was thinking of getting an older, smaller boat to make my own down here to use as a floating condo, to get more weekends in on the water and as a local getaway. Something 20-25 years old, 42 to 50 feet, between 15 and 45k, depending on how turn-key it is or appears to be.

What factors turned you away from outright ownership? I was also thinking of maybe something a little nicer, but splitting with three other families so we could all enjoy weekends away from home. Would love to hear some thoughts on the pros and cons of these strategies.

We have an annual trip there as well on the same weekend.... What HB company do you use? Twin Anchors or Waterways? We have used twin anchors for the last 2 years and the boat is great. I do agree with mrothwell.... We used about $1500 worth of fuel last year including 2 ski boats...And they dinged us for a new prop....

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jjackkrash

This is an interesting post. We rent on lake Shuswap every other year for a week to ten days in Canada with my extended family. We think this is absolutely a fantastic way to go. We never thought of timeshare, but I would be curious to run the numbers. We usually get a 70 footer with all the extras for about 3.5 to 4k (First week in September is beautiful, but considered off-peak season). Spit amoung 4 or five families, this is pretty afforadable. Would be curious to run the numbers.

Also, I now live far away in Texas and was thinking of getting an older, smaller boat to make my own down here to use as a floating condo, to get more weekends in on the water and as a local getaway. Something 20-25 years old, 42 to 50 feet, between 15 and 45k, depending on how turn-key it is or appears to be.

What factors turned you away from outright ownership? I was also thinking of maybe something a little nicer, but splitting with three other families so we could all enjoy weekends away from home. Would love to hear some thoughts on the pros and cons of these strategies.

We have an annual trip there as well on the same weekend.... What HB company do you use? Twin Anchors or Waterways? We have used twin anchors for the last 2 years and the boat is great. I do agree with mrothwell.... We used about $1500 worth of fuel last year including 2 ski boats...And they dinged us for a new prop....

We have used Waterways in the past, no complaints, but not married to them either. We will be back in 08.

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mrothwell
rothwell's got it right on.

I think I'm going to use this quote every time I have something to say in this forum. Biggrin.gif

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NorCaliBu
rothwell's got it right on.
I think I'm going to use this quote every time I have something to say in this forum. Biggrin.gif
Never heard that before, huh? Tongue.gif

Not likely to hear it again. Tease.gif

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