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Is a T235 with the M5 motor under powered


usanaples

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I've been all over the board with ordering a new boat, and was close to pulling the trigger on a T250, but when we added the upgraded motor to the M6DI it pushed the price up more than I expected. I started looking at the T235, and my dealer wasn't sure if the bigger motor would be necessary on that boat. Can anyone enlighten me? I realize bigger is always better. and MORE POWER!!!! but in real life is a T235 with the M5DI going to be a problem? Thank you in advance for all of your help.

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The m5 will work hard, but will work . The 235 is not a lightweight boat . I’m guessing by your name you are close to sea level, that helps It’s all about your crew size and what you are using it for . Adding lead is common for all models to dial a wave which is a further strain . So a m6 is a good choice and will likely help resale . Is the m6 still about a 5k upgrade? I still think it’s worth it . I’m in a 250 with lt4 but my challenge is I’m at over 6k feet in elevation. 

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ahopkins22LSV

Does the savings going from a T250 to the T235 offset the M6 upcharge? Or enough to make it worth it to your wallet? 
 

Depending on drivetrain in the 235, it will work but if you plan to wakeboard with max ballast it probably won’t work well. 
 

Just in general for weighing engine upgrade costs versus others, you can always add stereo stuff, lights, soft grip, etc. You can obviously swap motors too but that is much more costly and difficult.

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If I were in your position, I would order the M6 in the T235 without even thinking about it.  We had the M6 in our 2021 23LSV and it performed very well.  I also have it in the 25LSV and again, it performs well.  Considering your location, don't let the dealer tell you that you need the torque prop with the M6 in that boat.  

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1 hour ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

Does the savings going from a T250 to the T235 offset the M6 upcharge? Or enough to make it worth it to your wallet? 
 

Depending on drivetrain in the 235, it will work but if you plan to wakeboard with max ballast it probably won’t work well. 
 

Just in general for weighing engine upgrade costs versus others, you can always add stereo stuff, lights, soft grip, etc. You can obviously swap motors too but that is much more costly and difficult.

The idea was that by going from the T250 to the T235 & wouldn't need the motor upgrade, and that's where the savings would primarily come from... If I were going to stick with the M6, I will just get the T250, if that makes sense. I originally was looking at either the A225, or The T250 as my top end and low end choices...and trying to finagle it I thought maybe the T235 could be that ha[[y medium... but it sounds like it needs that motor too.

 

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ahopkins22LSV
1 hour ago, usanaples said:

 

The idea was that by going from the T250 to the T235 & wouldn't need the motor upgrade, and that's where the savings would primarily come from... If I were going to stick with the M6, I will just get the T250, if that makes sense. I originally was looking at either the A225, or The T250 as my top end and low end choices...and trying to finagle it I thought maybe the T235 could be that ha[[y medium... but it sounds like it needs that motor too.

 

Not really to be honest. You were questioning if the M5 will be enough in the 235. That is still a large boat. My point was the base price of the 235 should be less than the 250 so you are already saving money. If it’s 5k in savings and the M6 is 5k to add then ordering a 235 with an M6 is the same price as the 250 with the M5 and you will have zero power concerns. Or even if the M6 is 7500 to add then it’s still only 2500 net more. Which is well worth it in my opinion.

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I wouldn't order a 235 without the M6.  On the other hand I wouldn't order a 220 without it either, and didn't.  There is no replacement for displacement. 

I think the m5 would work but you're going to have high cruising RPMs, it's going to work hard most of the time, and be pushed very hard when you have a big crew. I think it would be an annoying combination and you'd long regret not spending the money to upgrade the motor.  In the big picture it's not that much money either.  The M6 would be a no brainer in that boat, IMO. 

Maybe think about it this way:  If you were going to order a new Suburban, and planned to tow a lot with a lot of gear and passengers, would you order it with the 5.3 or the 6.2?  I think most would opt for the 6.2 because it's the right choice on the face of the decision. 

Edited by rennis
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I have no experience with the boats or motors you are asking about, so take this advice for what it is worth.

I think the fact that your dealer says that they don't know how it will perform speaks volumes.  The dealer should know what works in the local market and what doesn't.  If they aren't ordering their boats with the smaller motor, I would assume there is a reason why.

If you do end up ordering the smaller motor I think your resale will suffer.  Both in value (you will get most if not all the $ back at time of resale) as well as desirability (anyone at elevation, even relatively low elevation) will move right by the boat with the smaller motor.

This is a HUGE purchase.  There isn't much worse than regretting what you bought because the performance doesn't live up to expectations.

Good luck with your decision.  Maybe you can find someone here or on the Facebook site that has first hand experience of the combo you are considering.  It would be ideal if you could get a lake test and see first hand what to expect.

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The 5.3L is a nice little v8, but I have the 6.2L in my ski boat and would not go back.  I am having a hard time seeing how the 5.3L is enough for that size boat, even with the slower towing speeds.  

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The M6 upgrade is a small percentage of the total purchase, you will always have enough power and it will have a higher resale value later on. Ultimately the budget needs to work for you, but I would rather skip other options that can be added later or you can live without and get the larger engine.

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15 hours ago, rennis said:

I wouldn't order a 235 without the M6.  On the other hand I wouldn't order a 220 without it either, and didn't.  There is no replacement for displacement. 

I think the m5 would work but you're going to have high cruising RPMs, it's going to work hard most of the time, and be pushed very hard when you have a big crew. I think it would be an annoying combination and you'd long regret not spending the money to upgrade the motor.  In the big picture it's not that much money either.  The M6 would be a no brainer in that boat, IMO. 

Maybe think about it this way:  If you were going to order a new Suburban, and planned to tow a lot with a lot of gear and passengers, would you order it with the 5.3 or the 6.2?  I think most would opt for the 6.2 because it's the right choice on the face of the decision. 

 

15 hours ago, RyanB said:

I have no experience with the boats or motors you are asking about, so take this advice for what it is worth.

I think the fact that your dealer says that they don't know how it will perform speaks volumes.  The dealer should know what works in the local market and what doesn't.  If they aren't ordering their boats with the smaller motor, I would assume there is a reason why.

If you do end up ordering the smaller motor I think your resale will suffer.  Both in value (you will get most if not all the $ back at time of resale) as well as desirability (anyone at elevation, even relatively low elevation) will move right by the boat with the smaller motor.

This is a HUGE purchase.  There isn't much worse than regretting what you bought because the performance doesn't live up to expectations.

Good luck with your decision.  Maybe you can find someone here or on the Facebook site that has first hand experience of the combo you are considering.  It would be ideal if you could get a lake test and see first hand what to expect.

 

14 hours ago, jjackkrash said:

The 5.3L is a nice little v8, but I have the 6.2L in my ski boat and would not go back.  I am having a hard time seeing how the 5.3L is enough for that size boat, even with the slower towing speeds.  

 

12 hours ago, CDAWake said:

The M6 upgrade is a small percentage of the total purchase, you will always have enough power and it will have a higher resale value later on. Ultimately the budget needs to work for you, but I would rather skip other options that can be added later or you can live without and get the larger engine.

These are all excellent points, and certainly answer my question... After looking at the boats in the compare page on Axis, they are only 100 lbs different, and 500 total ballast different, so this all makes a lot of sense. M6 it is! Thank you all for the input, much appreciated!

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Interesting side note.  My local dealer seems to order Malibu 23LSV's with the M5 but the couple T235's they have in stock have the M6.  Take that for what it is worth but I don't think you will ever complain having a little more power at your disposal.  

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ahopkins22LSV
37 minutes ago, gtfish said:

Interesting side note.  My local dealer seems to order Malibu 23LSV's with the M5 but the couple T235's they have in stock have the M6.  Take that for what it is worth but I don't think you will ever complain having a little more power at your disposal.  

This could be because the 23lsv comes with the 2:1 transmission and 17” prop. If they T235 doesn’t have that setup then the M6 is even more important. Forgive me as I don’t know exactly what the T235 comes with. 

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Nobody ever regretted getting the larger motor - always, always, always do it.  Save $7500 somewhere else, buy a cheaper truck or rent a smaller lakehouse, always get the M6. 

 

 

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35 minutes ago, McMiller said:

Nobody ever regretted getting the larger motor - always, always, always do it.  Save $7500 somewhere else, buy a cheaper truck or rent a smaller lakehouse, always get the M6. 

 

 

From the looks of it the clamping board racks are almost 1/2 the cost of that!

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50 minutes ago, McMiller said:

Nobody ever regretted getting the larger motor - always, always, always do it.  Save $7500 somewhere else, buy a cheaper truck or rent a smaller lakehouse, always get the M6. 

 

 

 

AMEN.

 

14 minutes ago, wdr said:

From the looks of it the clamping board racks are almost 1/2 the cost of that!

 

That was one of the concessions I made on our boat order for the M6.  I didn't cut back too many places but that was one of them.  The M6 was more important to me than having clamping racks or a second pair of Rev10s.  It's really easy to upgrade that stuff down the road, and most people do when new tech comes out anyway.  But you're more or less stuck with whatever motor you build it with

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54 minutes ago, usanaples said:

OK, so just to bring some closure on this, I just send the deposit on a custom order T250 with the M6.  Thank you all for the direction, information, and wisdom. I guess I'll have to post a picture and share some feedback once I get it.

Congrats!!  

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Congratulations on your order!  You will be very happy you got the M6.  I have one in my 2022 23LSV and run it at 6000+ of elevation.  It does the trick but I would have considered the LT$ if I had test driven a 23LSV fully loaded at that elevation.  At sea level, it's going to crush no matter how much weight you put in it!  

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We went from a 22 LSV M5 to a 23 MXZ M6.  Based on our experience the M5 would be less than if not a regret.  There were times that with our 22 LSV it would not "do" with a large crew what a would with a small crew.  It never kept us from having fun nor was it a problem but it was a lingering doubt.  Never have that in the MXZ even with 1,800 pounds of crew.  

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16 minutes ago, dalt1 said:

What is the torque curve look like between the 2 engines? Supposedly on the Old Raptor between the 410 and 450 they are identical up to about 3500 rpm then the advantage kicks in?

From the GM Marine website:

 

image.thumb.png.0d9b5ee186ba1367b5a0f41c4fa664fa.png

 

image.thumb.png.d48ce5caf3047a6341a873ea0755cfdb.png

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Too bad you can overlay the two, but still very telling.  Cruising at 3800 rpm the 6.2 is making close to 320hp and probably 440tq. Compare that with roughly 260hp and 360tq from the 5.3.  That's almost 25% more power on both measures at the same RPM, and it's pretty consistent across the torque curve.   Both are great engines but if you're trying to push weight, the 6.2 wins every time.  And it's such a cheap upgrade!  I don't know why more people don't opt for it, blows my mind. 

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