Refused servicing

[Molarroller]

I understand what you guys are saying.  But what about a well maintained boat that is 15 years old that has something break?  Its not like these boats are from 1965.  For what boats cost now are you telling me they are no good anymore after 10 years?  Sounds kind of ridiculous. 

[oldjeep]

4 minutes ago, Molarroller said:

I understand what you guys are saying.  But what about a well maintained boat that is 15 years old that has something break?  Its not like these boats are from 1965.  For what boats cost now are you telling me they are no good anymore after 10 years?  Sounds kind of ridiculous. 

No, just saying that a lot of repair shops don't want your well maintained but broken boat sitting at their shop for 2 months while they try to source a part that has to be rebuilt.  If you are going to own an older (fill in the blank) you need to be more self sufficient, or find a mechanic willing to work on your stuff.

 

I say this as a guy who just spent 90 minutes replacing a freaking headlight in a 2012 Chrysler 200 that had a bunch of brittle fasteners and requires you to actually remove the wheel, fender liner and fender brace to get at the stupid bulb;)

Edited November 1, 2022 by oldjeep

[Michigan boarder]

20 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

who just spent 90 minutes replacing a freaking headlight in a 2012 Chrysler 200 that had a bunch of brittle fasteners and requires you to actually remove the wheel, fender liner and fender brace to get at the stupid bulb;)

I used this tone a few months ago when doing the timing belt on the Audi.  My oldest says "Dad, remember....you are doing this as a hobby, for fun.  You can afford to take it in but you don't because you "like" doing stuff like this, right?".  To which I replied "I like doing this <<waves hand over entire engine bay>>.  I don't like this <<points at one small bolt under and between things that have 3/8" between them>>". 

[Michigan boarder]

To the OP, I am amazed at the current climate.  I've never passed up business, and now I'm pricing our services with 30% to 53% mark ups and still selling.  If they don't like it, I'll sell to someone else, it's unbelievable.  And we just raised wages by $1.50 for the 5th? time in 2 years, and can barely keep a crew.  Also, this is probably the 20th post I've seen in the past several years where people are not getting their boat serviced at a place that they did not buy it from, so you're not alone.

So, what work do you need done?  If you start a new thread, we'll walk you thru it, whatever it is from winterization to pulling the engine to replacing the running gear to a full upholstery redo.  I haven't brought my 1994 to a dealer in 12 years, and have done a TON of stuff to it.

[Cole2001]

I can pretty much guess what dealer this is. Dealers up here are either huge or service a niche group of their specific customers. 

[Hemmy]

21 hours ago, oldjeep said:

Problem is that if you show up with something that is impossible to get parts for then it is sitting apart in the shop forever and potentially getting abandoned.  Same reason that most mechanics (with half a brain) won't work on a boat with a Cobra outdrive - they are not worth what it costs to fix one most of the time - if you can even get the parts.

Guy I played hockey with retired from owning his own shop working on boats.  He was not a dealer just a repair shop/boat junk yard.  He always said his place is where boats come to die.

[Murphys]

22 hours ago, COOP said:

You say that now, but when someone shows up with a 25yr old can of worms you will change your mind.

Probably true. However, my Dad was a business owner and advertised "We service what we sell, and repair or replace what others sell."

He made a significant portion of his income repairing items he had not sold, and no one else would work on.

This is a different world now.

[oldjeep]

17 minutes ago, Murphys said:

Probably true. However, my Dad was a business owner and advertised "We service what we sell, and repair or replace what others sell."

He made a significant portion of his income repairing items he had not sold, and no one else would work on.

This is a different world now.

Yeah - you can't always fix things anymore.  When medallion stops supporting some of their crappy systems and none of your gauges and screens work, you need to hope that someone has an aftermarket replacement option.

[PNWoke]

On 10/31/2022 at 2:39 PM, BlindSquirrel said:

I can also throw away nuclear waste at the curb if needed. Just leave a 12 pack out with whatever needs to go with the regular trash... and it's gone. 

That is a serious lifehack that was taught to me by a co worker friend that previously worked for the disposal service.  A 12-24 pack of beer (literally any beer, no need to break the bank I have got great results with high alcohol content ice beer) and you bought yourself a free pass to throw anything away.  I have ditched entire couches, mattresses, old futons, dressers, etc - whatever is out there is going away for good.  My garbage man knows he’s getting a case of beer around Christmas/New Years, the 4th of July, and usually Memorial Day and/or Labor Day.  In return I regularly toss twice my 50 gallon limit per week.  Works every time.

[PNWoke]

On 11/1/2022 at 3:52 PM, Molarroller said:

I understand what you guys are saying.  But what about a well maintained boat that is 15 years old that has something break?  Its not like these boats are from 1965.  For what boats cost now are you telling me they are no good anymore after 10 years?  Sounds kind of ridiculous. 

I think I had seen that AWS doesn’t work on pre 1995ish boats.  In that case they refer you out to one of the other non dealer affiliated shops around.  I would think it just has to do with parts acquisition and time.  I know AWS only has so much space so they just can’t have your boat cluttering things up.  I believe they charge you $100/day if your boat isn’t picked up within 2 days of services being completed.  I don’t know if they actually enforce that or not, I have had to leave mine there over a weekend because I was on vacation when they did my service and I didn’t get charged for it, but it was also over a weekend in which the service dept was closed so perhaps it would have been different otherwise.

[wakebrdr94]

On 11/2/2022 at 12:09 PM, oldjeep said:

Yeah - you can't always fix things anymore.  When medallion stops supporting some of their crappy systems and none of your gauges and screens work, you need to hope that someone has an aftermarket replacement option.

    That'a not only on the old stuff, even new manufactures and motor manufactures do not talk or think things through.  Besides Malibu / Axis, we sell a runabout brand where you can select Merc or Volvo, and we were never a merc dealer for various reasons, so we only carried the volvo line.  I had a customer that was hell bent on getting a boat we had with a merc in it.  He did not listen to me, so he ordered it as he wanted it, no problem, until....  

    Fast forward to the break in service.  Our techs go to change the oil, and there was no access anywhere to get to the filter or the drain hose.  We took it down the street to the merc dealer and they confirmed that the motor would have to be pulled to do an oil change.  So the $500 service now jumped to a little over $2000.  Because of the curves around the motor, there was no where really to cut an access door, it was bad.  So basically $2000 every 50 hours for an oil change or find a fabricator who could be creative and make an access door that would work.  Customer was not happy, yelling at me, I reminded him of the waiver he signed that we were not a merc dealer and we would not be able to assist, etc.  I genuinely felt bad for the guy, but we had no idea as we didn't deal in merc.  (and the oil filter was already in a remote location)

    Even on the not so old stuff, as you mentioned, I've spent weeks sourcing an actuator for a power tower on a 2016 pontoon that had a power arch (not even a brand we carry).  The boat manufacture switched actuators, the new ones did not fit his boat.  I had to go through the Actuator manufacturer (which made actuators for medical Beds), they would not sell to us, and only produced that acuator in lots as they are not used much anymore.  Found a medical supply store back east that had them in stock still, and purchased through them.  His $200 actuator should have been WAY more than what we charged when you factor in the actual time it took to help.  Unfortunately time is not a factor people understand

    I guess the moral is any job CAN BE worth it, if the customer would be willing to PAY for the work that actually goes into it.  

 

[Murphys]

I understand the reality of things nowadays, but don't like it much. Too bad John Deere doesn't manufacture boats. I can still get parts for our 1961 JD 2010 from the local dealership. 

[shawndoggy]

12 minutes ago, wakebrdr94 said:

    Fast forward to the break in service.  Our techs go to change the oil, and there was no access anywhere to get to the filter or the drain hose. 

Isn't this a manufacturer "fail"?  I mean I know that Malibu has some tight locations and some poorly thought out configurations (the heat exchanger drain orientation on my 2021 A24 comes to mind), but ultimately they are all serviceable (AFAIK) with some yoga.  Seems like the folks who install the engine (manufacturer) should warn the dealer/consumer that the end result might not be serviceable.

[smileysteve]

20 minutes ago, wakebrdr94 said:

Because of the curves around the motor, there was no where really to cut an access door, it was bad.  So basically $2000 every 50 hours for an oil change or find a fabricator who could be creative and make an access door that would work. 

This is unbelievable mainly because GM oil filter relocation kits are 70 years old, available at most parts stores, under $50, and take about as much shop time as an oil change to install.

Also because the Volvo and mercury share a GM base.

[COOP]

43 minutes ago, smileysteve said:

This is unbelievable mainly because GM oil filter relocation kits are 70 years old, available at most parts stores, under $50, and take about as much shop time as an oil change to install.

Also because the Volvo and mercury share a GM base.

Depends on the motor.  Mercury makes many of their own blocks now.

 

https://www.sportfishingmag.com/how-mercury-builds-its-engines/

Edited December 6, 2022 by COOP

[wakebrdr94]

1 hour ago, shawndoggy said:

Isn't this a manufacturer "fail"?  I mean I know that Malibu has some tight locations and some poorly thought out configurations (the heat exchanger drain orientation on my 2021 A24 comes to mind), but ultimately they are all serviceable (AFAIK) with some yoga.  Seems like the folks who install the engine (manufacturer) should warn the dealer/consumer that the end result might not be serviceable.

   Malibu and Axis has some tight areas, but the configuration of the boats are pretty much the same.  basically three different motors to go into those compartments, M5, M6, LT4.  even prior to that, Indmar and PCM same thing really, 3 motor options, all (or most) tow boats configured the same way, have access the same way.  Run abouts have all kinds of lay outs, different engine hatches, shapes, clearnace, etc.

   Boat manufactures design only boat itself, engine manufactures design the motors, and I would feel it is up to the boat manufacture to work this one out.  You have the both merc and volvo who make very similar options but all those motors go into just about every run about.  So the motor manufacture doesn't care, as long as the motor fits in the boat.  The boat manufactures need to make sure we can get to things to service them.  I guess it falls in line with having to remove the ford cab for some service issues 

[wakebrdr94]

1 hour ago, smileysteve said:

This is unbelievable mainly because GM oil filter relocation kits are 70 years old, available at most parts stores, under $50, and take about as much shop time as an oil change to install.

Also because the Volvo and mercury share a GM base.

Working on Mercs and being a dealer is waaaaay different than Volvo or other manufactures.  You have to buy all the tools Merc wants you to have, have a wall and send pictures showing them, have certain signs displayed and send pictures showing them, only their software can read certain things, They make it a pain.  We actually went through the process at one shop I worked at, and the big Merc dealer down the street complained, after spending all this money to meet the merc standards, they told us we could not be a dealer after all.    Of course could not send back the tools or get refunded after making us spend thousands.  

[pauley71]

1 hour ago, shawndoggy said:

Isn't this a manufacturer "fail"?  I mean I know that Malibu has some tight locations and some poorly thought out configurations (the heat exchanger drain orientation on my 2021 A24 comes to mind), but ultimately they are all serviceable (AFAIK) with some yoga.  Seems like the folks who install the engine (manufacturer) should warn the dealer/consumer that the end result might not be serviceable.

HAHA .. on my M220 I have to remove the port side divider and crawl around the back of the engine to pull the heat exchanger plug on the SB side (2022 w/ M6).

Edited December 6, 2022 by pauley71

[shawndoggy]

1 hour ago, pauley71 said:

HAHA .. on my M220 I have to remove the port side divider and crawl around the back of the engine to pull the heat exchanger plug on the SB side (2022 w/ M6).

Same.  And on mine they oriented the tee so that it was 90* and pointing at the port stringer (plug at 3 o'clock looking towards the bow).  The clearance was so close that as soon as I could get the blue plug to start unthreading, it would "top out" on the port stringer.  There was enough flex in the hose to keep unthreading for drainage, but getting the plug re-seated was almost impossible because I needed to pull the tee back enough to get clearance with one hand and thread the plug in with my other hand, all the while tripoding with my head on the bilge floor.  All of this being done blind as well, of course because I was coming from behind.

The simple solution would've been to rotate the tee to about 7 oclock, so that it was pointed downward and a little to the starboard side.  Of course the sadistic install techs made sure that wasn't a picnic either, by orienting the hose clamps in such a way that I could only get about a 1/8 of a turn at a time with a wobble extension, again blind, from the port side. 

I did spend the time to re-orient the tee during winterization this year, so now I'll only have to do a one armed reach-across from the SB side for the plug next time.  I think I can even sorta see the plug out of the corner of my eye while doing it now too!

[COOP]

2 hours ago, wakebrdr94 said:

Working on Mercs and being a dealer is waaaaay different than Volvo or other manufactures.  You have to buy all the tools Merc wants you to have, have a wall and send pictures showing them, have certain signs displayed and send pictures showing them, only their software can read certain things, They make it a pain.  We actually went through the process at one shop I worked at, and the big Merc dealer down the street complained, after spending all this money to meet the merc standards, they told us we could not be a dealer after all.    Of course could not send back the tools or get refunded after making us spend thousands.  

They will also pop in to look around. We had a Mercury guy show up one year and he was throwing a fit about new boats on the lot with motors that apparently we werent approved to have.  

And once you have a certified tech they have to take update courses every three to four months ( and there are multiple certifications (inboard, diesel, multiple for outboards based on hp, and the high performance certs), if the tech has three then he has to update each one every 3-4 months), and the dealership has to pay. You also pay for access to order parts, file warranty, get tech docs, get tech support, everything. Its quite a cartel they have set up.

[Cole2001]

There is a reason up here on the west coast of Canada I have north americas largest Volvo and Yamaha dealers but not a Merc in sight. They may be considered better performance but for reliability, ease of work and use in very harsh conditions they are not favoured. 

[wakebrdr94]

6 hours ago, Cole2001 said:

There is a reason up here on the west coast of Canada I have north americas largest Volvo and Yamaha dealers but not a Merc in sight. They may be considered better performance but for reliability, ease of work and use in very harsh conditions they are not favoured. 

Want to go fast, buy a merc.  Want to get home, buy a yamaha.   
 

 

[Steve B.]

Revisiting this on a slightly different note. I'm looking at a 14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland with the hemi. Low miles. Haven't seen it in person yet. Supposedly has a tow package. My tow's are really short, flat roads, easy ramps. Thanks in advance for any thoughts about these vehicles.

Steve B.

[oldjeep]

4 minutes ago, Steve B. said:

Revisiting this on a slightly different note. I'm looking at a 14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland with the hemi. Low miles. Haven't seen it in person yet. Supposedly has a tow package. My tow's are really short, flat roads, easy ramps. Thanks in advance for any thoughts about these vehicles.

Steve B.

My brother in-law tows a ski nautique with a newer one, works fine.  Not a very heavy boat on a single axle.

[RyanB]

1 hour ago, Steve B. said:

Revisiting this on a slightly different note. I'm looking at a 14 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland with the hemi. Low miles. Haven't seen it in person yet. Supposedly has a tow package. My tow's are really short, flat roads, easy ramps. Thanks in advance for any thoughts about these vehicles.

Steve B.

I used a 2014 EcoDiesel GC as an around town (and one 300 mile round trip) tow vehicle for my 23LSV.  

Now used a 2022 GCL for the same purposes.

The Hemi is a good engine, and the GC platform punches above its weight.