C&D EV Tow Test

[shawndoggy]

1 hour ago, theloungelife said:

Well this thread went crazy...  Just wanted to report in that in the past week I towed my A22 with my Rivian on a flat highway going 70mph and got 1.2 miles per killowatt hour.  Better than I thought I would get.  This is about 40% below normal non-towing efficiency.  

That equates to 150 mile range?

[dlb]

On 9/12/2022 at 8:24 AM, Slayer said:

Exactly!!  As it stands, current diesel locomotives are pretty efficient beasts.  I see no economically viable way of electrifying the railway system.  

Have you seen the rail system in Europe?

[Tsumi]

On 9/11/2022 at 6:35 PM, carguy79ta said:

Those massive diesel engines In the locomotives turn DC generators so the trains are actually run by electricity. However how would you provide electricity to the locos(without the diesel generators)? An overhead electrified catenary system like the lite rail metrolinks? Can't imagine the problems with that. Cross country rails, switch yards, etc. Not a matter of will..just not doable. Forget batteries. Along with trains..8000hp pushboats on our rivers..batteries won't work there either. Just my 2 cents.

8 GE AC6000CW's were used in the world's longest and heaviest train, weighing in at 99,734 metric tons. Combined maximum output of 36 MW or 4.5 MW each. The French TGV world speed record in 2007 had two power cars consuming 19.6 MW combined or 9.8 MW each. The heaviest American freight train was 43,699 metric tons and most are less than 12,700 metric tons.  I imagine the TGVs of the world need their own switch yards too, and they travel cross country to make maximum use of their high speed. So yes, we have the technology to convert railways to fully electric, just no will to implement it.

Boats are a different story and one I have deliberately not brought up because electric technology isn't there yet. Planes are also in this category (I don't think electric will ever work for planes outside of low speed or short range transport i.e. blimps and drones). These are two modes of transportation that I would push for use of biofuels rather than electric conversion.

Also, your attitude is also something I take issue with. Instead of looking for solutions, you would just whine about why it's impossible and would rather leave everything as is. If steps to change aren't taken, things will never change.

As for the climate kool-aid... having experienced on the periphery (not directly affected, but got plenty of smoke) of 4 back to back "once-in-a-lifetime" fires, record breaking heatwaves and droughts, I'm pretty sure we're well beyond the point of being okay with inaction. I welcome any step taken towards moving away from fossil fuels, even if it's one that still requires the use of it but paves the way towards independence down the road. At least EVs taking power from the grid can use wind, solar, hydro, and nuclear energy if those power plants are on the grid. A hydrocarbon ICE uses nothing but fossil fuels... well, as I said earlier, there are biofuels, but that's much harder to obtain.

[ahopkins22LSV]

Guys, it’s very clear that this is going no where good. We’ve let it go despite this conversation being off topic to this thread and bordering on the line of the terms of use of this site. Some fully support EV and some don’t with a bunch of people in between. We get it. No one is going to sway each other on here especially with taking jabs. Get back on topic.

[Surfbeast21]

Are the current ev’s also using soy and peanut oil based wiring?? Legit question for people in rural areas. 
 

And why are some HoA’s and parking garages not allowing the ev’s to park? How many have caught on fire and not been able to be Extenguished for that to be an issue? 

[Stevo]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CiqXNRwt1al/?igshid=MDE2OWE1N2Q=

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CiqXNRwt1al/?igshid=MDE2OWE1N2Q=

Edited September 18, 2022 by Stevo

[Surfbeast21]

Interesting videos.  Don’t think anyone argues the absolute beast torque of the electric motors. They entered it to make that shine in that pull competition. And it indeed did but on the flip side they also exposed it.  When you research a little it took 73% of its battery to make that 3.3 second pull. 🤦🏻‍♂️ The diesel truck burned on the generous side and 3 gallons of its 30 gallon capacity.   I’m no expert but I’m having trouble seeing the EV being more efficient. What do you think @spikew919i know you used to dabble in sled pulling
 

I believe the EV would be great as a daily commuter for a 100 mile round trip daily but that’s just an opinion just like everyone else here has their own. 

Edited September 19, 2022 by Surfbeast21

[Tsumi]

6 hours ago, Surfbeast21 said:

Interesting videos.  Don’t think anyone argues the absolute beast torque of the electric motors. They entered it to make that shine in that pull competition. And it indeed did but on the flip side they also exposed it.  When you research a little it took 73% of its battery to make that 3.3 second pull. 🤦🏻‍♂️ The diesel truck burned on the generous side and 3 gallons of its 30 gallon capacity.   I’m no expert but I’m having trouble seeing the EV being more efficient. What do you think @spikew919i know you used to dabble in sled pulling
 

I believe the EV would be great as a daily commuter for a 100 mile round trip daily but that’s just an opinion just like everyone else here has their own. 

Can you point to your source? I'm googling Rivian sled pull and can find no mention of power usage.

Assuming it's the 105 kwh battery pack (which is only available with the dual motor), that means it used 76.65 kwh in 3.3 seconds, or a power consumption rate of 85,166 kw (85.166 MW). That's almost 19 times the power output of a diesel locomotive. Sorry but those numbers don't add up. The 135 kwh battery pack, the smallest with quad motors, would mean a power consumption rate of 109.5 MW. The batteries would literally blow up with those kind of power draw numbers.

Yes, we all know that full electric trucks aren't yet up to the task of long distance towing of moderate loads and larger. That does not make them useless (and sometimes superior) in any other scenario.

[Bluefishcay]

Looks like theoretically it should go more like 16 min at full power 170 kwh pack and 620kw max usage.  Although I bet it thermals in far less time than that and you won’t get a full 170 kwh back out of the pack at those discharge rates.  Maybe 10 min at max power.   But I bet it’s like a Tesla S and thermals within a few min.  

[MLBurns]

 

[IJM]

My opinion coming from one that has had an electric vehicle since the first Nissan Leaf came out. Love it for urban driving to and from work and around the city. Still own a gas truck to tow the boat. When it comes to EV trucks it all boils down to your individual needs. Basically how far you need to tow. If it works for you it is a great choice, if not, maybe it will be as battery technology and infrastructure to support EV gets better. Maybe it will never be for you. 🤷‍♂️  I’m watching the EV truck market for sure. It’s just not there yet for me. The lakes we frequent are anywhere from 70 to 200 miles away in mountainous terrain during the summer. Then a 565 mile tow to its winter home in Lake Havasu. Thanks for sharing the range test video. Whichever side of the fence you are on with EV and alternative fuel vehicles it sure is cool to watch it evolve. Certainly when an EV truck that suits my mission is available I’ll be shopping.

[spikew919]

It’s like this,  I have both a battery powered blower and a gas backpack blower. If I’m Gona blow out the garage, dust from mower deck or tractor cab. I will use the battery blower. But no way would I ever want to use the electric blower to blow the leaves from my yard or say a huge parking lot.  
 

Ev’s have there place in a short commute society.

also I would not want to give anyone the opportunity to control if I come or go by Turning power off 🤷🏻‍♂️

[shawndoggy]

11 minutes ago, spikew919 said:

also I would not want to give anyone the opportunity to control if I come or go by Turning power off 🤷🏻‍♂️

do you have your own gas refinery?  Most of us don't have access to that kind of tech.

Although it's super expensive at the moment, I suppose you could have a solar array and battery setup that would act as your own personal power plant to keep an EV partially charged.

[Nitrousbird]

Hoovie bought a Lightning and boy is that tow range pathetic:

 

[spikew919]

1 hour ago, shawndoggy said:

do you have your own gas refinery?  Most of us don't have access to that kind of tech.

Although it's super expensive at the moment, I suppose you could have a solar array and battery setup that would act as your own personal power plant to keep an EV partially charged.

I won’t go into what I have access to and don’t. But I will say I will be just fine. People were surviving long before electricity. Even still today. 
 

“nothing will be said that hasn’t already been said, nothing will be done that hasn’t already been done”  

when people come to terms with that, the world will be come clearer 🌀🕊

[minnmarker]

I just ordered a plug in hybrid BMW X5 that is rated to pull 6,000 lbs.   Local trips without a boat will be all electric.  For highway I'll have a 3 liter turbo gas engine.  Not full electric but I figure 70 to 80 percent of my driving will be electric.

[cowwboy]

On 9/25/2022 at 7:04 AM, shawndoggy said:

do you have your own gas refinery?  Most of us don't have access to that kind of tech.

Although it's super expensive at the moment, I suppose you could have a solar array and battery setup that would act as your own personal power plant to keep an EV partially charged.

I am not sure on the other EV's but it's widely known Tesla is always connected to your vehicle. There are quite a few stories and court cases to prove they constantly monitor your vehicle and will turn off supercharging if they want. So it is not a far stretch at all to believe it could be used to shut down or limit your vehicle. 
 

[theloungelife]

On 9/15/2022 at 5:01 PM, shawndoggy said:

That equates to 150 mile range?

Full battery to dead battery, I think it would be 1.2 x 135 = 162, but you would never want to call it that close.  I would say if I know I am going to tow, I'd charge up to 100% the night before.  I also wouldn't want to go below 20% if I can avoid it.  Therefore more real life tow range of (135 * .8) * 1.2 = 130ish miles.  This fits all my local lakes roundtrip no problem.  That said, if you were to road trip further, it takes a long time for the supercharge to go from around 85%-100%.  So if you only filled up to 85% and didn't want to go below 20%, then you're looking at around 105 miles between charges.  

All comes down to what your use case is.  Towing over 100ish miles, and it could be a pain. 

I can say the Rivian is a blast to drive, tows smooth for my short distances and it's nice paying $0.11 per KW vs paying for gas. 

[oldjeep]

11 hours ago, theloungelife said:

Full battery to dead battery, I think it would be 1.2 x 135 = 162, but you would never want to call it that close.  I would say if I know I am going to tow, I'd charge up to 100% the night before.  I also wouldn't want to go below 20% if I can avoid it.  Therefore more real life tow range of (135 * .8) * 1.2 = 130ish miles.  This fits all my local lakes roundtrip no problem.  That said, if you were to road trip further, it takes a long time for the supercharge to go from around 85%-100%.  So if you only filled up to 85% and didn't want to go below 20%, then you're looking at around 105 miles between charges.  

All comes down to what your use case is.  Towing over 100ish miles, and it could be a pain. 

I can say the Rivian is a blast to drive, tows smooth for my short distances and it's nice paying $0.11 per KW vs paying for gas. 

For the folks that it works for - great.  Although I always see stuff like this "nice paying $0.11 per KW vs paying for gas"  from EV folks who paid $73K for something that a 36K truck will do.  So you definitely need to save that money on gas.

[oldjeep]

21 hours ago, cowwboy said:

I am not sure on the other EV's but it's widely known Tesla is always connected to your vehicle. There are quite a few stories and court cases to prove they constantly monitor your vehicle and will turn off supercharging if they want. So it is not a far stretch at all to believe it could be used to shut down or limit your vehicle. 
 

I'm not sure that is not the case with other brands of (gas) trucks.  My 2018 Ram gets Uconnect updates without any sort of connection to my phone.  And while I don't pay for (guardian?) or whatever their brand of onstar is - I don't think that means that it is 100% off.

Edited September 27, 2022 by oldjeep

[justgary]

8 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

For the folks that it works for - great.  Although I always see stuff like this "nice paying $0.11 per KW vs paying for gas"  from EV folks who paid $73K for something that a 36K truck will do.  So you definitely need to save that money on gas.

I thought I saw in the TFL video that the EV got about 0.7 miles per kWh and the gasser got about 9 MPG.  At those rates, the breakeven on fuel cost is:

$0.11 / 0.7 = $0.157 per mile (EV)

$0.157 * 9 MPG = $1.414 per gallon (gasser)

Gasoline is roughly $3.40 average in the US right now, so that's a difference of $1.986 per gallon or $0.22 per mile for the gasser over the EV.  Assuming the gasser is $40K and the EV is $70K (a $30K difference in price), you would have to tow about $30K / 0.22 = 136,000 miles to break even on cost.  This assumes all towing miles and zero non-towing miles.  I don't know the numbers for non-towing on the EV.

I'll add that my F-150 3.5EB with the 35 gallon tank will go about 300 miles on a fill up at 9 MPG, so I'll probably be there before the EV gets done with its second charge.

[theloungelife]

23 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

For the folks that it works for - great.  Although I always see stuff like this "nice paying $0.11 per KW vs paying for gas"  from EV folks who paid $73K for something that a 36K truck will do.  So you definitely need to save that money on gas.

Good call out on the price.  I was able to get the legacy pricing which made it have a chunk of instant equity.  Was a big part of the reason I jumped in.  

[cowwboy]

35 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

I'm not sure that is not the case with other brands of (gas) trucks.  My 2018 Ram gets Uconnect updates without any sort of connection to my phone.  And while I don't pay for (guardian?) or whatever their brand of onstar is - I don't think that means that it is 100% off.

I completely agree and am not a fan of them always having access to my vehicle.
 

[theloungelife]

8 minutes ago, justgary said:

I thought I saw in the TFL video that the EV got about 0.7 miles per kWh

I saw that too.  I think what you are towing makes a big difference drag wise.  Boats are sleek and aero dynamic.  I've towed my A22 a few times lately on flats and the 1.2 mile per kwh has been pretty consistant for flats going around 70.  

[Steve B.]

162 miles on a charge would get me to the lake and back over 10 times. One would be perfect for my uses. The technology isn't there to completely compete with ICE's but it will and surpass given time and will.

Steve b.