2018 Ford F150 XLT 3.5L EB Replacement

[shawndoggy]

10 minutes ago, JeffC said:

... but I was seriously disappointed in the sales guy, I knew more about the truck on 10 minutes of reading than he did.   I guess that is just the nature of the beast these days, businesses have to hire any warm body with a pulse since noone wants to work :-)

As a nerd with an internet connection, the only time I have EVER been impressed with a salesman's knowledge was at the mercedes dealer.  Those guys knew their stuff and could even walk me through the various incremental model year improvements on certified used units.  

[JeffC]

On 7/20/2022 at 8:53 AM, RyanB said:

Lots of stuff to consider here.

First, if I were buying a vehicle to almost exclusively be a tow vehicle, I would skip right past any of the 150/1500s.  A HD makes such an improvement in tow manners that it really shouldn’t even be a discussion.  You think that your F150 tows great until you try a 2500.  Then lets talk.

Personally, I would look for a slightly used RAM 2500 with the 6.4 and the 8 speed.  And let it live outside if you’re not driving it a ton.  You will always have as much truck as you need, and it would give you a bigger bed for when you finally make it out to Powell.  And you would never have to worry about engine/tranny temps pulling over the passes (which will be an issue on the 150/1500s).

That said, let’s talk about the vehicles you brought up.  I know for me personally, I am pretty brand loyal.  And even if I buy another brand and have mostly good luck with it, I still have second thoughts.  So if that is you, maybe stick with the Ford.  But the cam phaser issue is a real one (I have the rattle on my 2019 Expedition, and have been on the “waiting list” to get it fixed for nearly a year now).

I don’t have a ton of experience in the current GM products.  What I know is that the ones that I have driven/ridden in the interiors are not nearly as nice as Ford or RAM (maybe that has changed).  And the 5.3 is at a significant power deficit to the RAM and Ford.  Might not matter at sea level.  It does matter when you are driving on I70 over the mountains.  Personally, I would never consider a 5.3.  6.2 or 3.0 would be a different story.

I am not on the Toyota band wagon.  New Tundra might be great (although the internet sure pokes a lot of holes in the way it has launched), but I have never driven a Toyota that I liked.  I don’t like the way the seats fit, the interior layout, nor the driving mannerisms.  

I am a MOPAR guy.  Have had many vehicles, and good luck with them.  The RAM interior for the last several years has just been better than the competition.  The 5.7 is older tech, but has great towing power.  The ZF8 speed is arguably one of the best transmissions put into any vehicle these days (tons of manufacturers use it).  The fit & finish in all of my MOPARS has been good (I wouldn’t categorize them as fragile).   It seems that about every truck comparison that I have seen for the last 5 years has rated them #1 or #2, so FWIW, the “experts” seem to agree with me.

As far as your comments about the back up assist, to me that is totally gimmick.  I did set it up on my Ex, and have tried to play with it a couple of times, but I would never want to rely on it, as more often than not, it won’t pick up the trailer, quits working in the middle of using it, or won’t turn as sharp as is needed.  Maybe it is just a flaw with the way it works in my truck?  But I would spend a little time with Mary in a school parking lot after hours and get her comfortable backing up without it.  I know she could do it, and that would open up some more options for you.

I KNEW you would have lots of good points... I shoulda just given you a ring :-)

Ive not excluded buying a 3/4 ton by any stretch, but I do like keeping the vehicles looking nice, and outdoors here in my driveway is a HOTHOUSE that would eat interiors.  I may well be able to get it into the other bay of the shop tho - hence why I have not excluded.    This F150 does have better towing manners than my old SIlverado 2500, but it was a 2000, and had been ridden hard in its day.   Tranny temps going on long trips (especially Powell) is a significant concern to me.   When I drove the GM products in 2017, I had pretty much ruled out the 5.3, but that was also an issue with the tranny, which hunted non stop under any pressure.  The 6.2 had gobs of power (and the Vortec was what was in my SIlverado), but I did not like the tranny at all. 

Ive heard some initial build quality issues on the latest Tundra, but hopefully they would sort that out.   Long term reliability would be my draw to a Toyota, but they are plenty proud of them.   I looked at a 1 year old with 8K miles on it in 2017, and they wanted damn near MSRP for it.   I cant even imagine what they are asking for new ones now. 

Unfortunately, the RAM salesman I talked to had the same problem as the GMC dealer.   Did not know his product AT ALL, again I knew more with 10 mins of reading than he did.   I guess that is just the way the world is now.   Im glad to hear of your experience tho... and Im pretty sure you treat your vehicles similarly to how I do.   Big believer if you take care of them, do scheduled maintenance, they SHOULD run pretty much forever.    Wish I could say that about my F150, which has been such a good match for what we needed it to do for the last four years.

RE: The cam phaser issue - if the fix they did at 20K miles had solved the issue, I would have gone back to sleep, and would be happily driving the F150 for another 6-8 years (I buy what I think I need, take good care of them, and then drive em forever, I still have that Audi you saw years ago - over 10 years old and still looks/drives like new).

FINALLY - on Back up assist, I dont need/use it generally (does simplify backing into my shop, but dont NEED it.   Mary is a different story.   We have done a lot of parking lot time, she took the Tommy's "Ladies day at the lake"... and she is certainly capable, but it makes her more comfortable.   Even today, she gets nervous without it.   Maybe its real, maybe its a crutch.  But she likes it.   A LOT.   You can imagine how THAT conversation goes :-)

 

Jeff

 

 

[JeffC]

On 7/20/2022 at 10:53 AM, UWSkier said:

Give the new GMCs a hard look if you have to stick with half ton.  The new GMC interior is on par with or better than anything else in the class (finally) and that baby Duramax is a sweetheart of an engine with the 10 speed, especially at altitude.  If I wasn't towing a travel trailer, that'd be my next truck for sure.

I need to get over this... I have an aversion to diesel, mostly because I have no experience with them, and I had a neighbor that had a Cummins turbo diesel that kept spitting turbos at $8500 a pop repair.   I get that is anecdotal, but its still weighs on my mind.

On 7/20/2022 at 11:10 AM, Pstangle86 said:

My 2021 Ram Laramie 5.7 is a bit fuel Hungry, but the transmission is leaps and bounds better the then the 8-speed in my 2017 Silverado so far. I think the interior is also nice. As others were saying a HD truck will always be a better option, but if you want to fit in your garage, the best 1/2 tow rig I have used is the GMC with the 10 speed and Diesel. The Ram with the 5.7 is a solid option, and I am happy with it so far. My CarPlay is garbage….but that’s less then important, just the one annoyance I have encountered. 

I really didnt like the 2017 tranny at all. I love the 10 speed in the F150.   

On 7/20/2022 at 1:15 PM, Tsumi said:

One thing to note is that the Ram 1500 still comes with the 8 speed for now. Not sure when they'll be going to the 10 speed. The other thing is if you have older kids/adults traveling with you, they will love the reclining rear seats in the Laramie and up trims. I know this made a big difference in long distance comfort in our MegaCab.

I'm a firm believer of not buying too much truck/vehicle for your needs, but this comes with the caveat that your tow rig has to be set up correctly. Pretty much all 1/2 ton manuals state that weight distribution hitches are required for greater than 500 lbs tongue weight. I would give leeway on this up to about 550 lbs, 650 lbs if you have some sort of leveling system (one of the things most truckers don't think about is headlight glare at night). More than that and you should definitely be running weight distribution on a 1/2 ton. Pay attention to the payload sticker on the 1/2 tons as well. On the higher trims, you might find you run out of payload capacity with just the boat and a cab full of people.

As for diesel vs gas, diesel has a higher upfront cost and higher maintenance costs as the tradeoff for better mileage. Frequent short trips can be an issue for diesels if they can't get up to temperature and run their regen cycles. Given that you're towing 15 minutes (presumably at highway speeds into the mountains), you're probably working the engine hard enough for it to stay in passive regeneration, especially if you're getting the smaller diesel in the 1/2 tons.

My F150 has the Maxtow package on it, and it at least tows the 22VLX with ease.   The 15 minute drive to the lake is probably at an average of about 40mph... maybe less.  The last couple miles have some pretty hefty grades to it. 

On 7/21/2022 at 12:04 AM, bretcole said:

JeffC ever plan to upgrade from the 2017 22 VLX?

My outbuilding is 40 wide, 30 deep.   Doors are 10' high, 119" wide.    If I ever upgrade, it will be to a similar sized boat (22LSV, MAYBE a 23LSV).   The real challenge is height.   When backing it in the NAV light lightly brushes the door gasket. Neighbors are infinitely entertained that I get it in there (I have to tie the guide poles up to the inside to get past the door too).   Crazy that when we bought this house the criteria was that the outbuilding HAD to fit the boat.   Period.  Full stop. 

On 7/21/2022 at 5:59 AM, pauley71 said:

I just sold a 2021 GMC with the 3.0L diesel and its a great engine.  Makes more than enough power and I consistently got 30+MPGs on the highway.  I will say the engine rattles a lot.  I just got a new F250/6.7L and its worlds quieter.  Not sure why but I put 10k miles on it and it just seemed noisy around town (not noticeable on highway).

Not a mopar fan so if it works for you great.

For a 1/2 ton, I would look at the Tundra.  Styling is growing on me and after putting 25k miles on my tacoma .. I love the simplicity of them.  Definitely won't give you many issues.

Sounds like another F150 is a solid choice minus the one issue .. here's the fix   www.floodfordesp.com 

I loved my F150 EB so much that I bought the new Tremor to get back to ford.  The F250 drives very similar to my F150 and I feel like I'm picking up where I left off, just larger    

The F150 XLT with 3.5L EB ticked all the boxes for us when we bought it.  Huge cabin.   Decent mileage (for a truck) with, and without the boat.  Towed the boat with ease.   FIt in the garage.  Comfortable ride across country.   But the cam phaser issue is a bugger.  Its a design issue.   I think it is causing, and will cause Ford a LOT of problems.  If I thought they had it figured out in the new ones, a new F150 might be the leader in the clubhouse. 

On 7/21/2022 at 8:38 AM, cbftbl87 said:

I also had a 2018 3.5L EB that developed the start-up rattle, but it was a 2 year lease so I never had it addressed before turning it in.  Both of the 2.7L EB that I've leased never had the issue.  I just got my 2022 3.5L EB, so hopefully it has been fixed at this point.

The 3.5L EB is the best 1/2 ton gas tow vehicle out there; can't beat the low rpm torque.  I'd get another one and just buy an extended service plan if you will keep it for longer than the 3yr/36k warranty.

IMHO, I should not have to buy an extended warranty to make a vehicle viable... I know... I probably am too optimistic :-)

On 7/21/2022 at 1:59 PM, rennis said:

 

I'm limited by the height of my parking garage at work.  My 2016 F150 has a 1.75" front level and it barely fits.  there is a chance a stock Tremor would fit, but I am incapable of leaving things stock and I'm certain if it was leveled it would not fit in the garage here. 

Im really glad you pointed that out... my vehicle garage is pretty dang big, but I dont think I have a ton of clearance up top.   Just wasnt something I was thinking about.

[JeffC]

23 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

As a nerd with an internet connection, the only time I have EVER been impressed with a salesman's knowledge was at the mercedes dealer.  Those guys knew their stuff and could even walk me through the various incremental model year improvements on certified used units.  

I had a similar experience with my Audi dealer in 2012, and he was technically the "Internet Sales Manager".   He knew the A6 inside out, as well as the BMW and Merc offerings, and had intelligent conversations with me about the pros/cons of each.   He sold the advantages of the Audi, but never once disparaged any other cars.    Totally refreshing, and it was how I was taught to sell when I worked for a rather large blue computer manufacturer in its heyday.

[jjackkrash]

HD Truck all day all night if it is your primary tow vehicle.  I have a 3500 DRW and would hate to be without an HD truck.

I also have a 2022 Tundra 1794 edition for towing the ski boat and more daily driving.  Some things about it are fantastic and some things really piss me off.  The safety features are too over the top and not intuitive or easy to disengage.  I also have a 2022 1500 AT4 on order with the baby d-max and all the cool cameras.  If it ever comes in and if it is still a straight swap for the Tundra when it comes I'll likely trade in the Tundra just for the little diesel.  That baby d-max is a winner.     

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by jjackkrash

[justgary]

My understanding of the 3.5L EB cam phaser fix is that it includes a software change.  As far as I can tell, the change delays fuel until the oil pressure comes up on a cold start.  Hopefully the new parts and reprogramming will solve the problem.

[UWSkier]

I'm currently 1800 miles into a 2000 mile cross-country tow with this setup.  This involved driving up and over the Mogollon rim in AZ, across the NM high desert, the panhandle of Texas, Oklahoma hill country, and through the Ozarks of Missouri.  That's a 26' class, 8000 lb travel trailer.  This is the GM 5.3L with 8 speed.  I've been pretty happy with everything except the fuel economy when the winds kick up and I want to go more than 65 MPH.  Handling-wise, with Load Range E tires and Roadmaster Active Suspension upgrade, along with the ProPride hitch system, handling has been extremely competent in every situation I've encountered.

I do wish I had another gear between 4th and 5th and I could do with a bit more power down lower so I don't need to rev 4000 RPM up the climbs, but I'm pleasantly surprised how well it's done.  So surprised that I'm actually thinking of a baby Dmax half ton to replace this one... maybe.

[malibu2004]

On 7/19/2022 at 12:25 PM, JeffC said:

I know this has the potential for lots of "points of view", but that is kind of what I want.   

Background : My F150 is currently in the shop for the second rebuild in < 50K miles for the notorious cam phaser issue.   This is truly sad, because this truck ticked all the boxes for our 2017 22VLX tow rig.   It gets great mileage running around without the boat, and is a monster dragging the VLX up the steep hills in Colorado to get to our favorite lakes.  The sway control was awesome on a recent trip into Wyoming  when the winds got really nasty.   The cabin is huge, the backup assist has made my wife a recognized pro at the ramp of launching and recovering the boat. 

If not for the cam phaser issue, I would be keeping this truck... for a long time.   But Im not sure I can trust it, I dont want to eat a $3-6K repair bill should it fail again in another 20K miles.  Supposedly there is a significant redesign, but Ive heard that before. 

The role for a new truck would almost exclusively be a tow rig for the boat.   We now have an economy car available to us that precludes having to use the truck as a regular driver.    Most towing would be a short (15 minute hop) to Horsetooth Reservoir in Colorado, up to 5430' altitude.  I also expect some longer trips (Glendo Wy,  Big Mac in Nebreaska, and MOST importantly Lake Powell).   While I dont want to be a gas/diesel PIG, its not the #1 consideration.   Ive been told that gas may be the fuel of choice given the short hops (not sure I understand why).

So... Im STARTING the research project of what our options are... so far, I think they include:

1/2 Ton Trucks - preferred if workable.   Generally should fit in our garage with a 5.5' box. 

• RAM 1500 Big Horn:   Would apparently have to be optioned up for towing, backup assist, etc.    Dont know what the price will look like yet.   They offer a backup assist, but I dont know what it looks like yet.   Hemi seems like a power monster, especially paired with 10 speed tranny, but I have no experience with them.  Seems like a nice interior, but my son in laws RAM has a surprisingly fragile interior (e.g. cant use the front grab bars to get into the truck, the pull right off the A pillar, window control clips have broken more than once, and the controls are just laying there attached only to the wires).    
• GMC Sierra:   I understand backup assist is available.   I looked at GMC when we bought the Ford,  pretty glitzy interior, but I did not like the powertrain as it was available in 2017/2018.   To me, the GMC and Chevy tranny shifted roughly, and as a 6 speed was forever noticeably hunting.  Maybe just not good test drive examples. 
• Another F150.  Obvious disadvantage with risk of Cam Phaser issues, but if I were to buy a new one, at least the warranty clock would be reset.   Advantage of our XLT - pretty much the perfect set of features and options in a truck that was not exotically expensive, and a tow rating higher than I think I will ever need with the Max Tow option. 
• Toyota Tundra: I just don't know enough about this truck.   We had had GREAT luck with a 2009 Venza (quality, reliability, comfort) that our daughter/son in law still use as a kid hauler to this day with a TON of miles on it. 

3/4 Ton Trucks - Not my first choice, I feel like more than we need for most uses - But I certainly have not ruled them out. 

Interested in any thoughts others may have - and I bet I know what @RyanB will say :-)

JC

Toyota Tundra is the only 1/2 ton I would buy. I had one for 9 years and 100k and the only thing I did was brakes. 

[oldjeep]

59 minutes ago, malibu2004 said:

Toyota Tundra is the only 1/2 ton I would buy. I had one for 9 years and 100k and the only thing I did was brakes. 

2009 Hemi Ram with 175K - brakes, tires, shocks   Only real issue was the exhaust manifold bolts that broke - under warranty/recall think I had it in twice for that over the 9 years I owned it.

2018 Hemi Ram with 60K - just changed the brakes and tires.  No issues

 

And it has way more power than the Toyota.

Edited July 29, 2022 by oldjeep

[JeffC]

3 hours ago, justgary said:

My understanding of the 3.5L EB cam phaser fix is that it includes a software change.  As far as I can tell, the change delays fuel until the oil pressure comes up on a cold start.  Hopefully the new parts and reprogramming will solve the problem.

From the very first I learned about this problem, (2020) I understood the problem to be rooted in insufficient oil pressure on cold start.   Your post is the first I have seen saying they MAY have fixed the core problem, which is fascinating to me as it seems like a simple, and straightforward resolution... but what do I know :-)

I had the software update done a while ago (when it first came out).   I still wound up having round two of the problem, BUT the damage may have already been done.   

I called Ford customer care yesterday and asked for extended warranty coverage.   They declined, but did "offer" that should it happen again before 7 years or 150K miles, they could offer a "Financial Assist" package that would cover the problem if it happened again.   They would NOT put that in writing, but did open a case (I have the case #) to cite if it does happen again.   Not sure I feel comfortable enough to hang on to the truck without having that in writing, but I have 10K miles to sort that out (until the extended powertrain warranty expires). 

[JeffC]

2 hours ago, UWSkier said:

I'm currently 1800 miles into a 2000 mile cross-country tow with this setup.  This involved driving up and over the Mogollon rim in AZ, across the NM high desert, the panhandle of Texas, Oklahoma hill country, and through the Ozarks of Missouri.  That's a 26' class, 8000 lb travel trailer.  This is the GM 5.3L with 8 speed.  I've been pretty happy with everything except the fuel economy when the winds kick up and I want to go more than 65 MPH.  Handling-wise, with Load Range E tires and Roadmaster Active Suspension upgrade, along with the ProPride hitch system, handling has been extremely competent in every situation I've encountered.

I do wish I had another gear between 4th and 5th and I could do with a bit more power down lower so I don't need to rev 4000 RPM up the climbs, but I'm pleasantly surprised how well it's done.  So surprised that I'm actually thinking of a baby Dmax half ton to replace this one... maybe.

Nice rig!  The gear between 4th and 5th is the thing that I would guess would bug me.   Even my Silverado 2500 had a tendency to hunt when pulling my old (lighter) boat up the hill to the reservoir.   Were I to get serious about it, I would hitch and tow the boat up the hill... salesman offered as much (which is nice). 

[JeffC]

6 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

2009 Hemi Ram with 175K - brakes, tires, shocks   Only real issue was the exhaust manifold bolts that broke - under warranty/recall think I had it in twice for that over the 9 years I owned it.

2018 Hemi Ram with 60K - just changed the brakes and tires.  No issues

 

And it has way more power than the Toyota.

Interesting... My 2000 Silverado 2500 sheared the exhaust manifold bolts too.  I did not have a warranty to cover it, but found a good exhaust shop that got the studs out, and fixed it for me for not a lot of $$.    It was weird - made all kinds of racket when I started it, then quieted down some as the engine/manifold heated up.   Not hard to find tho, put the hood up when I cold started, and ears told me exactly where the problem was. 

[Tsumi]

2 hours ago, UWSkier said:

I'm currently 1800 miles into a 2000 mile cross-country tow with this setup.  This involved driving up and over the Mogollon rim in AZ, across the NM high desert, the panhandle of Texas, Oklahoma hill country, and through the Ozarks of Missouri.  That's a 26' class, 8000 lb travel trailer.  This is the GM 5.3L with 8 speed.  I've been pretty happy with everything except the fuel economy when the winds kick up and I want to go more than 65 MPH.  Handling-wise, with Load Range E tires and Roadmaster Active Suspension upgrade, along with the ProPride hitch system, handling has been extremely competent in every situation I've encountered.

I do wish I had another gear between 4th and 5th and I could do with a bit more power down lower so I don't need to rev 4000 RPM up the climbs, but I'm pleasantly surprised how well it's done.  So surprised that I'm actually thinking of a baby Dmax half ton to replace this one... maybe.

I've heard too many horror stories about the GM 8 speed to feel comfortable with it. 6 speed or 10 speed for me. Currently looking to replace our MegaCab with a Yukon Denali XL or Ecoboost Expedition/Navigator. No real need for a bed at this point.

I know the feeling about the gears, but it's even worse on our MegaCab with the 5.7 Hemi and 545rfe. Towing a 3500 lbs boat (5000 lbs total weight) up mountains means it's redlining in the first gear or unable to accelerate (actually decelerating) in the 2nd gear while climbing. It's terrible, and this thing has a 9000 lbs tow rating.

[oldjeep]

52 minutes ago, JeffC said:

Interesting... My 2000 Silverado 2500 sheared the exhaust manifold bolts too.  I did not have a warranty to cover it, but found a good exhaust shop that got the studs out, and fixed it for me for not a lot of $$.    It was weird - made all kinds of racket when I started it, then quieted down some as the engine/manifold heated up.   Not hard to find tho, put the hood up when I cold started, and ears told me exactly where the problem was. 

Ram had some weird issue where they had a huge batch of block to manifold studs that were weak and could shear off during heat/cold cycles.  You would notice a ticking sound, I think I broke 4 in total between the 2 different fixes until they got some better studs in.

[UWSkier]

18 minutes ago, Tsumi said:

I've heard too many horror stories about the GM 8 speed to feel comfortable with it. 6 speed or 10 speed for me. Currently looking to replace our MegaCab with a Yukon Denali XL or Ecoboost Expedition/Navigator. No real need for a bed at this point.

I know the feeling about the gears, but it's even worse on our MegaCab with the 5.7 Hemi and 545rfe. Towing a 3500 lbs boat (5000 lbs total weight) up mountains means it's redlining in the first gear or unable to accelerate (actually decelerating) in the 2nd gear while climbing. It's terrible, and this thing has a 9000 lbs tow rating.

They don't make as many with the 8 speed anymore. 10 speed is the new standard for the higher spec models and by all accounts, it's excellent especially paired with the diesel. I haven't really had any issues with mine (knock on wood). 

[oldjeep]

36 minutes ago, Tsumi said:

I know the feeling about the gears, but it's even worse on our MegaCab with the 5.7 Hemi and 545rfe. Towing a 3500 lbs boat (5000 lbs total weight) up mountains means it's redlining in the first gear or unable to accelerate (actually decelerating) in the 2nd gear while climbing. It's terrible, and this thing has a 9000 lbs tow rating.

Are you in Towing mode so it is using 2nd instead of 2nd Prime?  I never had the trans do that in my 2009, and I towed 8K with that one pretty frequently (loaded car trailer).

Edited July 29, 2022 by oldjeep

[malibu2004]

1 hour ago, oldjeep said:

2009 Hemi Ram with 175K - brakes, tires, shocks   Only real issue was the exhaust manifold bolts that broke - under warranty/recall think I had it in twice for that over the 9 years I owned it.

2018 Hemi Ram with 60K - just changed the brakes and tires.  No issues

 

And it has way more power than the Toyota.

But the Tunda pulled the space shuttle, just saying. 

 

[Tsumi]

1 hour ago, oldjeep said:

Are you in Towing mode so it is using 2nd instead of 2nd Prime?  I never had the trans do that in my 2009, and I towed 8K with that one pretty frequently (loaded car trailer).

Tow mode and setting it to 2 on the dash didn't help. I'm pretty sure the fact that I have the 3.73 gears doesn't help either. The MegaCab is a 7000 lbs truck. Resorted it to putting the gear shifter in 1 to keep it from hunting back and forth between 1st and 2nd. Redline at 45-50 mph up a decently steep mountain that is wide enough to go 60+.

[RyanB]

Fwiw, the 10 speed that GM and Ford use is basically the same tranny. They designed it together. 
 

RAM hasn't used a 5 speed in YEARS, so it really shouldn’t be in the conversation. 
 

Jeff, do some research on the Z8HP used in the RAMs. Truly world class. I have the 10 speed in my ExMAX and it isn’t as good as the 8 speed. 

[oldjeep]

3 minutes ago, RyanB said:

RAM hasn't used a 5 speed in YEARS, so it really shouldn’t be in the conversation. 

Come on - it was a 6, sort of

[granddaddy55]

On 7/28/2022 at 11:21 AM, JeffC said:

I KNEW you would have lots of good points... I shoulda just given you a ring :-)

Ive not excluded buying a 3/4 ton by any stretch, but I do like keeping the vehicles looking nice, and outdoors here in my driveway is a HOTHOUSE that would eat interiors.  I may well be able to get it into the other bay of the shop tho - hence why I have not excluded.    This F150 does have better towing manners than my old SIlverado 2500, but it was a 2000, and had been ridden hard in its day.   Tranny temps going on long trips (especially Powell) is a significant concern to me.   When I drove the GM products in 2017, I had pretty much ruled out the 5.3, but that was also an issue with the tranny, which hunted non stop under any pressure.  The 6.2 had gobs of power (and the Vortec was what was in my SIlverado), but I did not like the tranny at all. 

Ive heard some initial build quality issues on the latest Tundra, but hopefully they would sort that out.   Long term reliability would be my draw to a Toyota, but they are plenty proud of them.   I looked at a 1 year old with 8K miles on it in 2017, and they wanted damn near MSRP for it.   I cant even imagine what they are asking for new ones now. 

Unfortunately, the RAM salesman I talked to had the same problem as the GMC dealer.   Did not know his product AT ALL, again I knew more with 10 mins of reading than he did.   I guess that is just the way the world is now.   Im glad to hear of your experience tho... and Im pretty sure you treat your vehicles similarly to how I do.   Big believer if you take care of them, do scheduled maintenance, they SHOULD run pretty much forever.    Wish I could say that about my F150, which has been such a good match for what we needed it to do for the last four years.

RE: The cam phaser issue - if the fix they did at 20K miles had solved the issue, I would have gone back to sleep, and would be happily driving the F150 for another 6-8 years (I buy what I think I need, take good care of them, and then drive em forever, I still have that Audi you saw years ago - over 10 years old and still looks/drives like new).

FINALLY - on Back up assist, I dont need/use it generally (does simplify backing into my shop, but dont NEED it.   Mary is a different story.   We have done a lot of parking lot time, she took the Tommy's "Ladies day at the lake"... and she is certainly capable, but it makes her more comfortable.   Even today, she gets nervous without it.   Maybe its real, maybe its a crutch.  But she likes it.   A LOT.   You can imagine how THAT conversation goes :-)

 

Jeff

 

 

back up assist mskes trailer rookies into trailer pros, but it also turns trailer pros into rookies😂

[granddaddy55]

2.7 doesn't have the cam phaser issue and is a beast with 3.73 rear end

[justgary]

7 hours ago, JeffC said:

From the very first I learned about this problem, (2020) I understood the problem to be rooted in insufficient oil pressure on cold start.   Your post is the first I have seen saying they MAY have fixed the core problem, which is fascinating to me as it seems like a simple, and straightforward resolution... but what do I know :-)

I had the software update done a while ago (when it first came out).   I still wound up having round two of the problem, BUT the damage may have already been done.   

I called Ford customer care yesterday and asked for extended warranty coverage.   They declined, but did "offer" that should it happen again before 7 years or 150K miles, they could offer a "Financial Assist" package that would cover the problem if it happened again.   They would NOT put that in writing, but did open a case (I have the case #) to cite if it does happen again.   Not sure I feel comfortable enough to hang on to the truck without having that in writing, but I have 10K miles to sort that out (until the extended powertrain warranty expires). 

My 2020 3.5L EB supposedly won't have the problem (at least I hope not).  The recall from last winter only covered motors made up until November 2019 (model year 2020).  If you are getting the newer parts and programming, you should be good.  I don't blame you for being nervous about it, though.

[JeffC]

On 7/29/2022 at 6:10 PM, justgary said:

My 2020 3.5L EB supposedly won't have the problem (at least I hope not).  The recall from last winter only covered motors made up until November 2019 (model year 2020).  If you are getting the newer parts and programming, you should be good.  I don't blame you for being nervous about it, though.

If ford was willing to put the "Financial Assist" thing in writing, I would feel pretty good about it.   But I have nightmares of calling them if it comes back in another 20K miles, and them saying

"Financial assistance?   What Financial assistance.  The CSR must have been drunk.   Here is a $25 starbucks card for your trouble"

Maybe I'm just paranoid.   My old boss used to tell me that "Just because I was paranoid, it didn't mean that they we not not out to get us"  :-)

[Slayer]

On 7/29/2022 at 3:07 PM, RyanB said:

Fwiw, the 10 speed that GM and Ford use is basically the same tranny. They designed it together. 
 

RAM hasn't used a 5 speed in YEARS, so it really shouldn’t be in the conversation. 
 

Jeff, do some research on the Z8HP used in the RAMs. Truly world class. I have the 10 speed in my ExMAX and it isn’t as good as the 8 speed. 

The Z8HP is a great transmission!  No question.  

Interesting note on the GM & Ford 10 speed.  They share the same architecture but have some unique nuances.  They are both independently programmed by GM & Ford respectively.  There also some slight differences in the Ford line up with respect to what's used in the F-150, Gas Superduty, and Diesel Superduty.  I'm on my 3rd Ford with the 10-speed.  The one in the Superduty is good, but it's a different experience than the F-150.  I feel like it's taking loner for this one to learn.  Otherwise I'm happy.  I towed the boat 200 miles yesterday and it did all I asked of it.