2018 Ford F150 XLT 3.5L EB Replacement

[JeffC]

I know this has the potential for lots of "points of view", but that is kind of what I want.   

Background : My F150 is currently in the shop for the second rebuild in < 50K miles for the notorious cam phaser issue.   This is truly sad, because this truck ticked all the boxes for our 2017 22VLX tow rig.   It gets great mileage running around without the boat, and is a monster dragging the VLX up the steep hills in Colorado to get to our favorite lakes.  The sway control was awesome on a recent trip into Wyoming  when the winds got really nasty.   The cabin is huge, the backup assist has made my wife a recognized pro at the ramp of launching and recovering the boat. 

If not for the cam phaser issue, I would be keeping this truck... for a long time.   But Im not sure I can trust it, I dont want to eat a $3-6K repair bill should it fail again in another 20K miles.  Supposedly there is a significant redesign, but Ive heard that before. 

The role for a new truck would almost exclusively be a tow rig for the boat.   We now have an economy car available to us that precludes having to use the truck as a regular driver.    Most towing would be a short (15 minute hop) to Horsetooth Reservoir in Colorado, up to 5430' altitude.  I also expect some longer trips (Glendo Wy,  Big Mac in Nebreaska, and MOST importantly Lake Powell).   While I dont want to be a gas/diesel PIG, its not the #1 consideration.   Ive been told that gas may be the fuel of choice given the short hops (not sure I understand why).

So... Im STARTING the research project of what our options are... so far, I think they include:

1/2 Ton Trucks - preferred if workable.   Generally should fit in our garage with a 5.5' box. 

• RAM 1500 Big Horn:   Would apparently have to be optioned up for towing, backup assist, etc.    Dont know what the price will look like yet.   They offer a backup assist, but I dont know what it looks like yet.   Hemi seems like a power monster, especially paired with 10 speed tranny, but I have no experience with them.  Seems like a nice interior, but my son in laws RAM has a surprisingly fragile interior (e.g. cant use the front grab bars to get into the truck, the pull right off the A pillar, window control clips have broken more than once, and the controls are just laying there attached only to the wires).    
• GMC Sierra:   I understand backup assist is available.   I looked at GMC when we bought the Ford,  pretty glitzy interior, but I did not like the powertrain as it was available in 2017/2018.   To me, the GMC and Chevy tranny shifted roughly, and as a 6 speed was forever noticeably hunting.  Maybe just not good test drive examples. 
• Another F150.  Obvious disadvantage with risk of Cam Phaser issues, but if I were to buy a new one, at least the warranty clock would be reset.   Advantage of our XLT - pretty much the perfect set of features and options in a truck that was not exotically expensive, and a tow rating higher than I think I will ever need with the Max Tow option. 
• Toyota Tundra: I just don't know enough about this truck.   We had had GREAT luck with a 2009 Venza (quality, reliability, comfort) that our daughter/son in law still use as a kid hauler to this day with a TON of miles on it. 

3/4 Ton Trucks - Not my first choice, I feel like more than we need for most uses - But I certainly have not ruled them out. 

Interested in any thoughts others may have - and I bet I know what @RyanB will say :-)

JC

Edited July 19, 2022 by JeffC
misspell

[oldjeep]

Can't really say anything bad about the hemi.  Never heard of pulling the grab bar off, is he a big boy?

[Slayer]

The cam phaser issue still exists on the F-150, but it's not as prevalent as it once was.  It was an issue in both the 3.5 EB and the Coyote.  I didn't have the issue on my 2019 and traded it in with 55k miles.  My 2018 had the issue and it was addressed at 30k miles.  I've since purchased an F-250 Tremor with the 7.3L.  It is my daily and my tow rig and I love the thing.  It's a great truck.

[ahopkins22LSV]

The GM powertrains today are leaps and bounds better than what was available in 17/18. I would definitely take another look at them. My 2021 Sierra elevation crew cab is the best truck I’ve ever owned and I have a “basic” powertrain package of the 5.3 and 8 speed. It blows away the 5.3 in my 18 though. They returned the engine and paired with the 8 speed it is a completely different truck. 

[RyanB]

Lots of stuff to consider here.

First, if I were buying a vehicle to almost exclusively be a tow vehicle, I would skip right past any of the 150/1500s.  A HD makes such an improvement in tow manners that it really shouldn’t even be a discussion.  You think that your F150 tows great until you try a 2500.  Then lets talk.

Personally, I would look for a slightly used RAM 2500 with the 6.4 and the 8 speed.  And let it live outside if you’re not driving it a ton.  You will always have as much truck as you need, and it would give you a bigger bed for when you finally make it out to Powell.  And you would never have to worry about engine/tranny temps pulling over the passes (which will be an issue on the 150/1500s).

That said, let’s talk about the vehicles you brought up.  I know for me personally, I am pretty brand loyal.  And even if I buy another brand and have mostly good luck with it, I still have second thoughts.  So if that is you, maybe stick with the Ford.  But the cam phaser issue is a real one (I have the rattle on my 2019 Expedition, and have been on the “waiting list” to get it fixed for nearly a year now).

I don’t have a ton of experience in the current GM products.  What I know is that the ones that I have driven/ridden in the interiors are not nearly as nice as Ford or RAM (maybe that has changed).  And the 5.3 is at a significant power deficit to the RAM and Ford.  Might not matter at sea level.  It does matter when you are driving on I70 over the mountains.  Personally, I would never consider a 5.3.  6.2 or 3.0 would be a different story.

I am not on the Toyota band wagon.  New Tundra might be great (although the internet sure pokes a lot of holes in the way it has launched), but I have never driven a Toyota that I liked.  I don’t like the way the seats fit, the interior layout, nor the driving mannerisms.  

I am a MOPAR guy.  Have had many vehicles, and good luck with them.  The RAM interior for the last several years has just been better than the competition.  The 5.7 is older tech, but has great towing power.  The ZF8 speed is arguably one of the best transmissions put into any vehicle these days (tons of manufacturers use it).  The fit & finish in all of my MOPARS has been good (I wouldn’t categorize them as fragile).   It seems that about every truck comparison that I have seen for the last 5 years has rated them #1 or #2, so FWIW, the “experts” seem to agree with me.

As far as your comments about the back up assist, to me that is totally gimmick.  I did set it up on my Ex, and have tried to play with it a couple of times, but I would never want to rely on it, as more often than not, it won’t pick up the trailer, quits working in the middle of using it, or won’t turn as sharp as is needed.  Maybe it is just a flaw with the way it works in my truck?  But I would spend a little time with Mary in a school parking lot after hours and get her comfortable backing up without it.  I know she could do it, and that would open up some more options for you.

[Slayer]

1 hour ago, RyanB said:

Lots of stuff to consider here.

First, if I were buying a vehicle to almost exclusively be a tow vehicle, I would skip right past any of the 150/1500s.  A HD makes such an improvement in tow manners that it really shouldn’t even be a discussion.  You think that your F150 tows great until you try a 2500.  Then lets talk.

Personally, I would look for a slightly used RAM 2500 with the 6.4 and the 8 speed.  And let it live outside if you’re not driving it a ton.  You will always have as much truck as you need, and it would give you a bigger bed for when you finally make it out to Powell.  And you would never have to worry about engine/tranny temps pulling over the passes (which will be an issue on the 150/1500s).

That said, let’s talk about the vehicles you brought up.  I know for me personally, I am pretty brand loyal.  And even if I buy another brand and have mostly good luck with it, I still have second thoughts.  So if that is you, maybe stick with the Ford.  But the cam phaser issue is a real one (I have the rattle on my 2019 Expedition, and have been on the “waiting list” to get it fixed for nearly a year now).

I don’t have a ton of experience in the current GM products.  What I know is that the ones that I have driven/ridden in the interiors are not nearly as nice as Ford or RAM (maybe that has changed).  And the 5.3 is at a significant power deficit to the RAM and Ford.  Might not matter at sea level.  It does matter when you are driving on I70 over the mountains.  Personally, I would never consider a 5.3.  6.2 or 3.0 would be a different story.

I am not on the Toyota band wagon.  New Tundra might be great (although the internet sure pokes a lot of holes in the way it has launched), but I have never driven a Toyota that I liked.  I don’t like the way the seats fit, the interior layout, nor the driving mannerisms.  

I am a MOPAR guy.  Have had many vehicles, and good luck with them.  The RAM interior for the last several years has just been better than the competition.  The 5.7 is older tech, but has great towing power.  The ZF8 speed is arguably one of the best transmissions put into any vehicle these days (tons of manufacturers use it).  The fit & finish in all of my MOPARS has been good (I wouldn’t categorize them as fragile).   It seems that about every truck comparison that I have seen for the last 5 years has rated them #1 or #2, so FWIW, the “experts” seem to agree with me.

As far as your comments about the back up assist, to me that is totally gimmick.  I did set it up on my Ex, and have tried to play with it a couple of times, but I would never want to rely on it, as more often than not, it won’t pick up the trailer, quits working in the middle of using it, or won’t turn as sharp as is needed.  Maybe it is just a flaw with the way it works in my truck?  But I would spend a little time with Mary in a school parking lot after hours and get her comfortable backing up without it.  I know she could do it, and that would open up some more options for you.

Great post and great statement.  I couldn't agree more.  Particularly coming out of the F150.  The 3/4 ton not only pulls much better, it's much more confident, stable, and stops much more efficiently.  

 

That back up assist thing is a gimmick to me as well.  I've had it on my last few trucks as well as my new one and I have never once set it up.  Same with the active parking features.  I'm not a fan of either. 

[UWSkier]

Give the new GMCs a hard look if you have to stick with half ton.  The new GMC interior is on par with or better than anything else in the class (finally) and that baby Duramax is a sweetheart of an engine with the 10 speed, especially at altitude.  If I wasn't towing a travel trailer, that'd be my next truck for sure.

[Pstangle86]

My 2021 Ram Laramie 5.7 is a bit fuel Hungry, but the transmission is leaps and bounds better the then the 8-speed in my 2017 Silverado so far. I think the interior is also nice. As others were saying a HD truck will always be a better option, but if you want to fit in your garage, the best 1/2 tow rig I have used is the GMC with the 10 speed and Diesel. The Ram with the 5.7 is a solid option, and I am happy with it so far. My CarPlay is garbage….but that’s less then important, just the one annoyance I have encountered. 

[Slayer]

For me, CarPlay is used all the time.  I have wireless in my Tremor and it's awesome!  I hated not having functionality unless I was plugged in before.  At that, connectivity wasn't always good and I don't like cables all over the place. 

[UWSkier]

46 minutes ago, Slayer said:

For me, CarPlay is used all the time.  I have wireless in my Tremor and it's awesome!  I hated not having functionality unless I was plugged in before.  At that, connectivity wasn't always good and I don't like cables all over the place. 

Android Auto for me.  It gets turned on before I ever put the vehicle in gear.  I'd love to have the wireless version.

[Tsumi]

One thing to note is that the Ram 1500 still comes with the 8 speed for now. Not sure when they'll be going to the 10 speed. The other thing is if you have older kids/adults traveling with you, they will love the reclining rear seats in the Laramie and up trims. I know this made a big difference in long distance comfort in our MegaCab.

I'm a firm believer of not buying too much truck/vehicle for your needs, but this comes with the caveat that your tow rig has to be set up correctly. Pretty much all 1/2 ton manuals state that weight distribution hitches are required for greater than 500 lbs tongue weight. I would give leeway on this up to about 550 lbs, 650 lbs if you have some sort of leveling system (one of the things most truckers don't think about is headlight glare at night). More than that and you should definitely be running weight distribution on a 1/2 ton. Pay attention to the payload sticker on the 1/2 tons as well. On the higher trims, you might find you run out of payload capacity with just the boat and a cab full of people.

As for diesel vs gas, diesel has a higher upfront cost and higher maintenance costs as the tradeoff for better mileage. Frequent short trips can be an issue for diesels if they can't get up to temperature and run their regen cycles. Given that you're towing 15 minutes (presumably at highway speeds into the mountains), you're probably working the engine hard enough for it to stay in passive regeneration, especially if you're getting the smaller diesel in the 1/2 tons.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Tsumi

[RyanB]

39 minutes ago, Tsumi said:

One thing to note is that the Ram 1500 still comes with the 8 speed for now. Not sure when they'll be going to the 10 speed

The ZF 8 speed gives up absolutely nothing to the 10 speeds. It is a phenomenal tranny. 

 

40 minutes ago, Tsumi said:

Pretty much all 1/2 ton manuals state that weight distribution hitches are required for greater than 500 lbs tongue weight. I would give leeway on this up to about 550 lbs, 650 lbs

True on some. Certainly not all. 

[bretcole]

JeffC ever plan to upgrade from the 2017 22 VLX?

[pauley71]

18 hours ago, UWSkier said:

Give the new GMCs a hard look if you have to stick with half ton.  The new GMC interior is on par with or better than anything else in the class (finally) and that baby Duramax is a sweetheart of an engine with the 10 speed, especially at altitude.  If I wasn't towing a travel trailer, that'd be my next truck for sure.

I just sold a 2021 GMC with the 3.0L diesel and its a great engine.  Makes more than enough power and I consistently got 30+MPGs on the highway.  I will say the engine rattles a lot.  I just got a new F250/6.7L and its worlds quieter.  Not sure why but I put 10k miles on it and it just seemed noisy around town (not noticeable on highway).

Not a mopar fan so if it works for you great.

For a 1/2 ton, I would look at the Tundra.  Styling is growing on me and after putting 25k miles on my tacoma .. I love the simplicity of them.  Definitely won't give you many issues.

Sounds like another F150 is a solid choice minus the one issue .. here's the fix   www.floodfordesp.com 

I loved my F150 EB so much that I bought the new Tremor to get back to ford.  The F250 drives very similar to my F150 and I feel like I'm picking up where I left off, just larger    

[cbftbl87]

I also had a 2018 3.5L EB that developed the start-up rattle, but it was a 2 year lease so I never had it addressed before turning it in.  Both of the 2.7L EB that I've leased never had the issue.  I just got my 2022 3.5L EB, so hopefully it has been fixed at this point.

The 3.5L EB is the best 1/2 ton gas tow vehicle out there; can't beat the low rpm torque.  I'd get another one and just buy an extended service plan if you will keep it for longer than the 3yr/36k warranty.

[rennis]

On 7/20/2022 at 6:24 AM, Slayer said:

The cam phaser issue still exists on the F-150, but it's not as prevalent as it once was.  It was an issue in both the 3.5 EB and the Coyote.  I didn't have the issue on my 2019 and traded it in with 55k miles.  My 2018 had the issue and it was addressed at 30k miles.  I've since purchased an F-250 Tremor with the 7.3L.  It is my daily and my tow rig and I love the thing.  It's a great truck.

 

If I was truck shopping today and I didn't have to worry about city driving and parking, the first thing I would look at is a F-250 with the Godzilla motor.  Everything about that combination leads me to believe it has the best chance of being the best long-term reliable tow rig of anything available right now. 

[Slayer]

14 minutes ago, rennis said:

 

If I was truck shopping today and I didn't have to worry about city driving and parking, the first thing I would look at is a F-250 with the Godzilla motor.  Everything about that combination leads me to believe it has the best chance of being the best long-term reliable tow rig of anything available right now. 

My Tremor is my daily driver when I'm not riding my HD.  It is big, but it's not as bad as you may thing.  My former F-150 had the 6.5' bed, so from that perspective it's not much different.  The overall length delta is only 6" or so.  The height is another story altogether.  For ease of parking, I always park as far away from other vehicles as possible because I absolutely HATE door dings and scratches from people who simply don't care.  Parallel parking is actually easier IMO with the height and larger mirrors.  You just have to get used to the length.  

I think you're right on the 7.3L.  I'm only 1,200 miles in and without question, it's a strong mule and was designed and engineered for longevity and work.  I love it. 

 

Edited July 21, 2022 by Slayer

[rennis]

20 minutes ago, Slayer said:

My Tremor is my daily driver when I'm not riding my HD.  It is big, but it's not as bad as you may thing.  My former F-150 had the 6.5' bed, so from that perspective it's not much different.  The overall length delta is only 6" or so.  The height is another story altogether.  For ease of parking, I always park as far away from other vehicles as possible because I absolutely HATE door dings and scratches from people who simply don't care.  Parallel parking is actually easier IMO with the height and larger mirrors.  You just have to get used to the length.  

I think you're right on the 7.3L.  I'm only 1,200 miles in and without question, it's a strong mule and was designed and engineered for longevity and work.  I love it. 

 

 

I'm limited by the height of my parking garage at work.  My 2016 F150 has a 1.75" front level and it barely fits.  there is a chance a stock Tremor would fit, but I am incapable of leaving things stock and I'm certain if it was leveled it would not fit in the garage here. 

[Slayer]

4 minutes ago, rennis said:

 

I'm limited by the height of my parking garage at work.  My 2016 F150 has a 1.75" front level and it barely fits.  there is a chance a stock Tremor would fit, but I am incapable of leaving things stock and I'm certain if it was leveled it would not fit in the garage here. 

Totally get it.  My F-150 was on a 2" level.  The tremor is much larger with 35's stock.  I see no need to modify the tremor with the exception of wheels and tires.  JMO on this point, but it seems pretty damn good.  I don't have any plans to lift it or level it.  It's damn near level when the 25 is hooked up.  It actually still has a little rake to it.  The size of the truck takes away from the unsatisfying look of rake in a truck.  The think I don't like is that the wheels should have a different offset from the factory.  They're tucked in about 1/2" more than I would prefer.  I don't want them outside the wheel well as much as I would like a flush look, very similar to how your truck is set up. 

 

[UWSkier]

It sure would be awesome if some manufacturer would build a 2500 like they used to.  Same body as a 1500 just with heavier bits.  My 1500 QCSB is the perfect sized vehicle for my garage.  Even if I can make length work, the height is a challenge on these new trucks.

[Tsumi]

2 hours ago, UWSkier said:

It sure would be awesome if some manufacturer would build a 2500 like they used to.  Same body as a 1500 just with heavier bits.  My 1500 QCSB is the perfect sized vehicle for my garage.  Even if I can make length work, the height is a challenge on these new trucks.

Would one of the GM 3/4 tons work? As far as I know, GM is the only one making 3/4 and 1 tons with the front independent suspension for 4wd trucks. They would probably be easier to lower if you were inclined.

My 2006 4wd MegaCab is as tall as any current 4wd 3/4 ton truck, at least the stock ones. The solid front axle prevents it from being lowered at all (the 2wd trucks were a good 2-4" lower). Then again, I did go from the 31" tires they used back then to 33" tires.

[granddaddy55]

On 7/21/2022 at 9:38 AM, cbftbl87 said:

I also had a 2018 3.5L EB that developed the start-up rattle, but it was a 2 year lease so I never had it addressed before turning it in.  Both of the 2.7L EB that I've leased never had the issue.  I just got my 2022 3.5L EB, so hopefully it has been fixed at this point.

The 3.5L EB is the best 1/2 ton gas tow vehicle out there; can't beat the low rpm torque.  I'd get another one and just buy an extended service plan if you will keep it for longer than the 3yr/36k warranty.

my 4x2 f150 2.7 tows a big boat and a catch can my 2016 did not have oem solved my one problem/issue , luv my 2.7 that has about 55k++ pulling miles on 98k,  needed a full brake job at 50k but my surge brakes were not functioning for probably half the pulling miles it had at that point in my first wakeboat, it needed a water pump only because the big oring was weeping a bit, finally did the differential at 70k+
 

with the natural rake and high ball on the upside down receiver i only am about 1inch of squat and front rise pulling a 6600 lb boat inc lead and fuel not counting trailer plus gear

[JeffC]

I really didnt go away, just really busy.   Im going to step through the replies, and imagine Ill have some comments/questions/answers Ill post up here.   A BIG thanks to all of you for the comments.   It is VERY MUCH appreciated!

 

Jeff

[JeffC]

On 7/19/2022 at 4:38 PM, oldjeep said:

Can't really say anything bad about the hemi.  Never heard of pulling the grab bar off, is he a big boy?

No not really... I have at least 70lbs on him!  Tall, and probably a buck sixty soaking wet.   I have heard of issues with interiors on Dodges, but that may be old news...  They sure do look nice In any case.

[JeffC]

On 7/20/2022 at 7:24 AM, Slayer said:

The cam phaser issue still exists on the F-150, but it's not as prevalent as it once was.  It was an issue in both the 3.5 EB and the Coyote.  I didn't have the issue on my 2019 and traded it in with 55k miles.  My 2018 had the issue and it was addressed at 30k miles.  I've since purchased an F-250 Tremor with the 7.3L.  It is my daily and my tow rig and I love the thing.  It's a great truck.

I only worry because this is the second time around on this truck.   If it fails in another 20K miles, it will be on my dime unless I can convince ford to extend my warranty (which is what I plan on doing, and what was suggested by my service advisor).   

On 7/20/2022 at 7:45 AM, ahopkinsVTX said:

The GM powertrains today are leaps and bounds better than what was available in 17/18. I would definitely take another look at them. My 2021 Sierra elevation crew cab is the best truck I’ve ever owned and I have a “basic” powertrain package of the 5.3 and 8 speed. It blows away the 5.3 in my 18 though. They returned the engine and paired with the 8 speed it is a completely different truck. 

I havent driven one yet, but was looking at an elevation trim Sierra crew cab last week.   I didnt get to drive it yet, didnt have time.   Assuming powertrain improvements, It could well be a contender, but I was seriously disappointed in the sales guy, I knew more about the truck on 10 minutes of reading than he did.   I guess that is just the nature of the beast these days, businesses have to hire any warm body with a pulse since noone wants to work :-)