What did you Pay? Should we ask or not??

[SacRiverRat]

I vote for a having a place to post prices of boats without anyone knowing the owner.

What would we do with a bunch of boat pics... maybe we could play match game, and match them to a list of unidentified owners

[Daman]

This is a tricky subject, as a buyer I want to know what people are paying. As a dealer I don't. I do want a good dealer, so its a catch 22. If hound a dealer to give me a super low price and tell everyone to get that price then is that dealer ever going to become a good dealer that I can count on being there next year? I think I would rather pay an average price and keep my dealer in business, he's happy I'm happy. That dealer will be more likely to give better service. I think there is a line to be drawn also, but basically if my dealer is giving me good service then I am not as concerned how much he is charging as long as it is within reason for the market. If I were to find out that my dealer is overcharging then I might be inclined to let people know they are getting taken for a ride.

More and more this sport is becoming a upper middle class activity and has kind of left the middle class buyer in the dust, which is unfortunate. Of course there is exceptions..... But for the most part if you own a new wakeboat you probably are doing pretty well for yourself finically. If I am wrong then explain how you pay for a new wakeboat making under 50-60K a year. (while owning a home, car, etc.....)

Back to the original subject, you won't see me pasting a copy of my invoice. But you will see me say things like, "I think you can find this boat for around X amount" Not a quote of what you should be paying; that can be found all over the internet.

At the same rate if a dealer doesn't want a bad rap then he had better stay within a market average. If you try and take people for a ride then your stay within the market will be short lived. Karma.

So who ever is out there looking to buy a new wakeboat/skiboat, do your research and talk to people about the dealer, but don't ask me to post my invoice. I will give you a price range from what I have seen and paid myself, but never what exactly I paid....

[panic]

I really dislike the process of buying a car/boat precisely because of the "games" played in the pricing, so much so that the process itself has kept me from buying more often. Going into the negotiation, buyers are the ones usually at a disadvantage because they lack information of what is a reasonable price. Dealers however, know exactly what they need to get out of their inventories to turn a profit and they price accordingly. In my neck of the woods, I am told that the boats sell out every year whether it is Malibu, MC, CC or Tige so the deals are harder to come by especially early in the season.

Because I hate the haggling process, I look for every advantage possible and would like to know the prices paid by other buyers (My real preference would be "value" pricing where the sticker is the price). I know that others love to haggle over everything, and I would thnik that even these people want to know what others have paid. The only people that don't want to know what others have paid are those who are afraid they paid too much and don't want to know that or the dealers. For the buyers that do not want to know what others have paid, no one is forcing them to look at the information gathered. They can simply ignore the posts and continue to believe they got a fair deal. For the dealers, if it is a real problem for them they can build confidentiality provisions into their contracts (has anyone been told by their dealer not to tell anyone what they paid?). The status quo hurts buyers who are looking for information to make an informed decision.

Just my $.02

[macca]

In Australia all Malibu dealers are required to sell the boat for the same price... Your assured you paid the same as your buddy. Its a great system and it helps with resale value

Jason

[jcbatt]

In Australia all Malibu dealers are required to sell the boat for the same price... Your assured you paid the same as your buddy. Its a great system and it helps with resale value

Jason

Thats interesting, but I'm glad we don't have that here in the US. The guy who buys 1 boat and keeps it for 20 years pays the same as the guy who buys a new one every year? The dealer that has no inventory, no showroom, no real service department gets to charge as much as a they dealer that invests a lot of money in all those things? And it only helps with resale value if you were one of the people that would overpay here in the US. It would kill those that get good deals on their boats.

[twrv]

Geez...05 Sunsetter 21 XTI w/Monsoon 340, 2 vent heater, shower, color matched Illusion X, bimini, 3 sets of cleats, stereo and 4 speakers, extreme trailer, manual wedge. Got the "sweet" boat show coupon for $2000 off for a grand total of $48,000 including tax (give or take $50).

How is that so complicated.

[curtisco24]

That sounds like a good deal. I agree with some of the posts. I think the only people that don't want to know what was paid are those that are dealers or those that paid too much for their boat. As far as supporting a dealer, if they can't survive on selling me a 45k boat that probably cost 15-20k to make, they need to scale it back a little. I'm not gonna break myself just so they can have a nice pro shop and service area. I want the best deal I can get. They are still gonna make plenty, if they weren't, they wouldn't sell me a boat with a big smile on their face.

[mtodd]

This to me is an interesting topic. I live in sales and can see the side of selling the same item to two different people at different prices. I can also see the backlash that could create. I just went thru the process of buying my second Malibu and it was an interesting experience. When I bought my first one in 2000 we didn't have a dealer here in my home town. We bought from a state away, they have serviced the boat and I have never had a weekend when the boat didn't run. During the seven years we have had a dealer come and go (this delaer charged people to winterize there boats and forgot to do it) and we currently have a new dealer. When it came to buying a new boat I went to the local boat show to see what was out there and was pretty set on another Malibu. I talked with the current dealer and a rep from the factory while I was there. The following week I got an email from the local dealer asking to quote on the boat. I told him that was fine but I had a good relationship with the dealer out of the neighboring state. The factory rep told my current dealer that the deal was pretty much closed by the dealer from my hometown and not to worry about it to much. I had the dealer I have been dealing with quote the same boat as the local dealer and they came in a little higher (approx $1,250). I actually bought the boat from the dealer that was a little higher just because of the comfort level I have with them. I know they will be there tomorrow and will be willing to help me if there is any problems. I guess what I am trying to get at is that sometimes the best price is just that the best price for the day. If you don't look past that then you get what you asked for. The support that dealer may give you may be worth the little extra money. So you can't compare one dealers price with another. Just my humble opinion.

[VinRLX]

They are still gonna make plenty, if they weren't, they wouldn't sell me a boat with a big smile on their face.

Sounds like you are well informed as to the business side of boat dealerships.

[Madmanacrossthewater]

That sounds like a good deal. I agree with some of the posts. I think the only people that don't want to know what was paid are those that are dealers or those that paid too much for their boat. As far as supporting a dealer, if they can't survive on selling me a 45k boat that probably cost 15-20k to make, they need to scale it back a little. I'm not gonna break myself just so they can have a nice pro shop and service area. I want the best deal I can get. They are still gonna make plenty, if they weren't, they wouldn't sell me a boat with a big smile on their face.

Where did you get your numbers?

If I made 20-25K per boat deal, I would have retired 5 years ago.

[ragtopdave06]

In Australia all Malibu dealers are required to sell the boat for the same price... Your assured you paid the same as your buddy. Its a great system and it helps with resale value

Jason

Thats interesting, but I'm glad we don't have that here in the US. The guy who buys 1 boat and keeps it for 20 years pays the same as the guy who buys a new one every year? The dealer that has no inventory, no showroom, no real service department gets to charge as much as a they dealer that invests a lot of money in all those things? And it only helps with resale value if you were one of the people that would overpay here in the US. It would kill those that get good deals on their boats.

Please explain why doing business this way is bad. I say YES, the guy that buys 1 boat and keeps it for 20 years SHOULD pay the same as the guy who buys a new one every year.Why shouldn't it be that way? If you're fortunate enough to be able to do that, don't gripe about it. Most people can't afford even ONE boat in their lifetime! It may kill those that get good deals, but boats should all be priced based on what you get on them. The same price as the next guy buys them for. If one dealer has the fancy showroom and service shop, that's just their way of making more money by selling other items in the showroom or providing service to the boats that other dealers without that stuff can do.

[SacKen]

I say, open up the kimono for all to see! I'd rather see 50 people get a fair price than 10 get the deal of the century at the expense of 40 others. The whole car/boat buying experience is just so icky. Things like Edmunds have helped level the playing field with cars, so why not educate buyers of boats, too? I obviously don't want dealers to go out of business, I would just rather see a fair price where neither side is getting screwed.

[Hack]

I say, open up the kimono for all to see! I'd rather see 50 people get a fair price than 10 get the deal of the century at the expense of 40 others. The whole car/boat buying experience is just so icky. Things like Edmunds have helped level the playing field with cars, so why not educate buyers of boats, too? I obviously don't want dealers to go out of business, I would just rather see a fair price where neither side is getting screwed.

So what did you pay? List the options too please. People sometimes are more comfortable with percentages but whatever that is just more smoke and mirrors. BTW, I agree with your perspective I just thought that it was funny that you didn't list your price when you just recently went through the process.

[SacKen]

Since the issue is still being debated (or so it seemed), I didn't want to jump the gun if the community was leaning towards not openly disclosing. I agree that percentages are a pain. For comparison purposes, I think it is also important to list where you bought it from.

Also, I'm probably one that got screwed. I hate negotiating and do very little of it. I weigh the time and hassle of doing so with how much I think I might save amortized over how long I plan to own the item to determine if it is even worth the effort. I wouldn't be surprised if what I paid was embarrassingly excessive.

I'm one that would benefit from being able to walk in with a feeling of what is a fair price. I'm one that likes to walk in and show all my numbers and how I came to the price I think is fair for both parties and make them explain why I'm wrong rather than doing the "I start here and you start there and we'll see who moves the most before giving in". The problem is that I had no info to use to derive that number with the boat purchase! At least I had NADA and existing used boats for sale to help with my trade.

So if we decide to let the numbers fly, I'll definitely contribute... probably as an example of what not to do

[Hack]

Since the issue is still being debated (or so it seemed), I didn't want to jump the gun if the community was leaning towards not openly disclosing. I agree that percentages are a pain. For comparison purposes, I think it is also important to list where you bought it from.

Also, I'm probably one that got screwed. I hate negotiating and do very little of it. I weigh the time and hassle of doing so with how much I think I might save amortized over how long I plan to own the item to determine if it is even worth the effort. I wouldn't be surprised if what I paid was embarrassingly excessive.

I'm one that would benefit from being able to walk in with a feeling of what is a fair price. I'm one that likes to walk in and show all my numbers and how I came to the price I think is fair for both parties and make them explain why I'm wrong rather than doing the "I start here and you start there and we'll see who moves the most before giving in". The problem is that I had no info to use to derive that number with the boat purchase! At least I had NADA and existing used boats for sale to help with my trade.

So if we decide to let the numbers fly, I'll definitely contribute... probably as an example of what not to do

Funny. I can tell you are a really good dude just from this one post. I'm sure you did fine. You are "real" about it and shoudl get some back scratching from your dealer because of that. I just bought one in IN with more options than I wanted but I got what I think was a good deal. The options were priced high (IMO since they aren't listed anywhere). Anyway, I received just under a 17% discount and a good trade in value on my previous boat, plus some service extras. I'm happy and like you will post pictures as soon as I remember to take them. Congrats on the purchase! This is my first Malibu too! I'm coming from a Nautique so I'll be very interested to see the differences. P.S. If you are going to face plant tuck your chin (reference to another post of yours).

[jshap]

Since the issue is still being debated (or so it seemed), I didn't want to jump the gun if the community was leaning towards not openly disclosing. I agree that percentages are a pain. For comparison purposes, I think it is also important to list where you bought it from.

Also, I'm probably one that got screwed. I hate negotiating and do very little of it. I weigh the time and hassle of doing so with how much I think I might save amortized over how long I plan to own the item to determine if it is even worth the effort. I wouldn't be surprised if what I paid was embarrassingly excessive.

I'm one that would benefit from being able to walk in with a feeling of what is a fair price. I'm one that likes to walk in and show all my numbers and how I came to the price I think is fair for both parties and make them explain why I'm wrong rather than doing the "I start here and you start there and we'll see who moves the most before giving in". The problem is that I had no info to use to derive that number with the boat purchase! At least I had NADA and existing used boats for sale to help with my trade.

So if we decide to let the numbers fly, I'll definitely contribute... probably as an example of what not to do

Funny. I can tell you are a really good dude just from this one post. I'm sure you did fine. You are "real" about it and shoudl get some back scratching from your dealer because of that. I just bought one in IN with more options than I wanted but I got what I think was a good deal. The options were priced high (IMO since they aren't listed anywhere). Anyway, I received just under a 17% discount and a good trade in value on my previous boat, plus some service extras. I'm happy and like you will post pictures as soon as I remember to take them. Congrats on the purchase! This is my first Malibu too! I'm coming from a Nautique so I'll be very interested to see the differences. P.S. If you are going to face plant tuck your chin (reference to another post of yours).

Time to change the boat in your profile!

[multiplemalibufamily]

Boat dealers and car dealers - there are LOTS of Chevy dealers in Houston for me to try and find the best deal. I can even go to Consumer Reports and pay ($12 I think) for a report that gives me true dealer cost and any incentives that he may be getting. There's only one Malibu dealer here in Houston. I would have to drive to Dallas (280 miles), or Austin (190 miles) to get to another dealer. I have no information on what his cost is. So, my local Malibu dealer has no competition - he has the advantage!!! I do not understand why some seem to be protective on their dealer!!!! I think I need more protection than he does!!!!

AMEN!! More protection for the purchaser for sure! For reasons too numerous to go into!

[auto]

There's only one Malibu dealer here in Houston. I would have to drive to Dallas (280 miles), or Austin (190 miles) to get to another dealer.

I don't think most dealers will sell out of territory, some will, but for others too much too lose in the long run.

[Broke Amigo]

There's only one Malibu dealer here in Houston. I would have to drive to Dallas (280 miles), or Austin (190 miles) to get to another dealer.

I don't think most dealers will sell out of territory, some will, but for others too much too lose in the long run.

So if you live in Waco, which dealer would be in my territory? Two dealers are about the same distance and one is a bit further. There are boats here that have been bought at all three dealers? So I would seriously doubt that any of the three dealers would have a problem selling me a new boat!

[auto]

There's only one Malibu dealer here in Houston. I would have to drive to Dallas (280 miles), or Austin (190 miles) to get to another dealer.

I don't think most dealers will sell out of territory, some will, but for others too much too lose in the long run.

So if you live in Waco, which dealer would be in my territory? Two dealers are about the same distance and one is a bit further. There are boats here that have been bought at all three dealers? So I would seriously doubt that any of the three dealers would have a problem selling me a new boat!

Don't ask me, call Frank at WSA, he will tell you straight up the situation.

[nbomar]

I agree and disagree. Being in sales it does suck to give up all your margin's because someone else with little to no overhead is selling cheaper than you are. With that being said I'm in the market for a new boat. I went to a dealer I thought I had a great relationship with from recent purchases and one of the sales guys there quoted me more than the sticker price on the boat in the showroom! I would love to have some kind of baseline to know as long as it's somewhat close to "X" price it's a fairly good deal. I could care less if I got the "BEST" deal out there. As long as I'm not getting bent over for no reason I'm happy. My last dealer has been good to me in the service dept and for any needs I've had. On the flip side I've bought multiple boats in the past few years and personally sent them several customers who bought. I did not negotiate hardly at all on my purchases because I felt like the dealer was taking care of me. Now that I'm a little more educated, the fact that the sales guy priced me higher than the sticker makes me question how "good" my previous deals were. Anyways, enough rambling....I think a good baseline is all anyone needs. They can negotiate from there and determine if the service the dealer will do for you is worth the price you pay...

[CLOUT1]

I agree and disagree. Being in sales it does suck to give up all your margin's because someone else with little to no overhead is selling cheaper than you are. With that being said I'm in the market for a new boat. I went to a dealer I thought I had a great relationship with from recent purchases and one of the sales guys there quoted me more than the sticker price on the boat in the showroom! I would love to have some kind of baseline to know as long as it's somewhat close to "X" price it's a fairly good deal. I could care less if I got the "BEST" deal out there. As long as I'm not getting bent over for no reason I'm happy. My last dealer has been good to me in the service dept and for any needs I've had. On the flip side I've bought multiple boats in the past few years and personally sent them several customers who bought. I did not negotiate hardly at all on my purchases because I felt like the dealer was taking care of me. Now that I'm a little more educated, the fact that the sales guy priced me higher than the sticker makes me question how "good" my previous deals were. Anyways, enough rambling....I think a good baseline is all anyone needs. They can negotiate from there and determine if the service the dealer will do for you is worth the price you pay...

I hear yah but...I'm in Sales myself and if a "good client" ie, someone like you who is a repeat customer and has given me several referrals I would wine and dine the hell out of you. If one of my sales guys gave you a price like that I would take away his Malibu and make him drive a 4 winns for the rest of his life!!! I would let it be known that if this is the way they treat their "A" clients then they should watch how a "A" client spreads the word about your recent dealing with them!!! Good Luck... find a dealer who appreciates your business...and as far as a good deal, from what I read here on the crew, a 10%-15% discount off purchase is a more than fair deal but I'm sure others more knowledgable then I will chime in.

Edited August 22, 2007 by CLOUT1

[Fromwithin]

I am new to this Forum, im from Canada (Ontario)and have actually had a hard time finding a Malibu boat dealer close to me. The one I did find, I sent them an extensive e-mail, as I am planning to buy a Malibu VLX in the near future...To my dismay, It has been a month and have not heard a word back from them???WTF??!!

Anyways, I work as a "Purchaser" for a company and deal with many suppliers. My belief is that in order to obtain a close relationship with a supplier/Dealer is that the dealer must ensure that you are confident and happy walking away with the negotiated price.

In order for this to happen the buyer must research his/her purchase and have a "good feel" or "confidence" on the price he/she thinks is fair.

Walking into a Malibu boat dealership knowing nothing at all, only that you want this boat, can leave a bad taste in your mouth after the deal has gone through, and you have no one to blame but yourself.

I have not bought my boat yet, but with the experience I have had with making many and large purchases over the years, this is the right way to go about it.

There are several ways to go about making a large purchase, and a few ways that I have done so with my job is,

1. Start with your base price by talking with not just 1, but many dealerships and getting quotes (estimates). This will help you establish an "average" guide line price.

2. Talk in private too as many people who own the same boat as your future purchase, most of the time they are willing to share their experience with you and this will give you insight as what the possible percentage should be discounted off the "average" guide line price you obtained earlier.

3. Regardless what a dealer might say HE/SHE WANTS YOUR BUSINESS. A good dealer, will work with you and even if he/she thinks your offer is outrageous they should not show this towards their customer, but instead figure out how/why you came up with this offer and he/she should explain logically why they cant except this. If their explanation sounds fair and they honestly cant make it happen, you must either 1. Re-evaluate your offer 2. If you think they can, try the same offer with another dealer and see where it takes you.

4. The internet is a great tool to help research any investment, use it to gain as much knowledge about the boat before making a purchase.

I hope this helps some of you out their with questions. I hope that my purchase will be successful..

P.s. With the way the Canadian dollar is right now, I may just end up buying my boat in the States!

[Bill_AirJunky]

..................I sent them an extensive e-mail, as I am planning to buy a Malibu VLX in the near future...To my dismay, It has been a month and have not heard a word back from them???WTF??!!

First of all, welcome to TMC.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but an extensive email may or may not be the best way to start off a business relationship of any kind. Email being as misunderstood as it is, and not 100% reliable, the dealer may not have even recieved your message. And if they did, they may not have thought it was for real (depending on what you said & how you said it).

I would start with a phone call. Give them some idea that your serious about buying a boat. And tell them you will follow up with an email. Then if they don't answer in a few days, follow up with another call to make sure they got the message.

Over 15 yrs in IT.......... just my 2 cents.

[Killer]

In Australia all Malibu dealers are required to sell the boat for the same price... Your assured you paid the same as your buddy. Its a great system and it helps with resale value

Jason

Thats interesting, but I'm glad we don't have that here in the US. The guy who buys 1 boat and keeps it for 20 years pays the same as the guy who buys a new one every year? The dealer that has no inventory, no showroom, no real service department gets to charge as much as a they dealer that invests a lot of money in all those things? And it only helps with resale value if you were one of the people that would overpay here in the US. It would kill those that get good deals on their boats.

not a bad idea at all, but many auto companies have tried this and many mfg's of sporting goods set out SRP based on how many units a particular dealer sells and should limit the number of dealers per/XXX buyers.

you will end up getting the same service and prices because you go to the most local spot. there will inevitablly be people who travel because another dealer has better service, but not prices. everyone makes their money and has to compete on the service end of things.

it is the best and most fair way to treat your dealers. & if you aren't cutting it you loose the dealership status for that brand... happens in so many wholesale-retails relationships.

I am new to this Forum, im from Canada (Ontario)and have actually had a hard time finding a Malibu boat dealer close to me. The one I did find, I sent them an extensive e-mail, as I am planning to buy a Malibu VLX in the near future...To my dismay, It has been a month and have not heard a word back from them???WTF??!!

Anyways, I work as a "Purchaser" for a company and deal with many suppliers. My belief is that in order to obtain a close relationship with a supplier/Dealer is that the dealer must ensure that you are confident and happy walking away with the negotiated price.

In order for this to happen the buyer must research his/her purchase and have a "good feel" or "confidence" on the price he/she thinks is fair.

Walking into a Malibu boat dealership knowing nothing at all, only that you want this boat, can leave a bad taste in your mouth after the deal has gone through, and you have no one to blame but yourself.

I have not bought my boat yet, but with the experience I have had with making many and large purchases over the years, this is the right way to go about it.

There are several ways to go about making a large purchase, and a few ways that I have done so with my job is,

1. Start with your base price by talking with not just 1, but many dealerships and getting quotes (estimates). This will help you establish an "average" guide line price.

2. Talk in private too as many people who own the same boat as your future purchase, most of the time they are willing to share their experience with you and this will give you insight as what the possible percentage should be discounted off the "average" guide line price you obtained earlier.

3. Regardless what a dealer might say HE/SHE WANTS YOUR BUSINESS. A good dealer, will work with you and even if he/she thinks your offer is outrageous they should not show this towards their customer, but instead figure out how/why you came up with this offer and he/she should explain logically why they cant except this. If their explanation sounds fair and they honestly cant make it happen, you must either 1. Re-evaluate your offer 2. If you think they can, try the same offer with another dealer and see where it takes you.

4. The internet is a great tool to help research any investment, use it to gain as much knowledge about the boat before making a purchase.

I hope this helps some of you out their with questions. I hope that my purchase will be successful..

P.s. With the way the Canadian dollar is right now, I may just end up buying my boat in the States!

I can help you get there PM me - see below vvvvvv

..................I sent them an extensive e-mail, as I am planning to buy a Malibu VLX in the near future...To my dismay, It has been a month and have not heard a word back from them???WTF??!!

First of all, welcome to TMC.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but an extensive email may or may not be the best way to start off a business relationship of any kind. Email being as misunderstood as it is, and not 100% reliable, the dealer may not have even recieved your message. And if they did, they may not have thought it was for real (depending on what you said & how you said it).

I would start with a phone call. Give them some idea that your serious about buying a boat. And tell them you will follow up with an email. Then if they don't answer in a few days, follow up with another call to make sure they got the message.

Over 15 yrs in IT.......... just my 2 cents.

I agree.. boat dealers, especially north of the border tend to be rural and less technically inclined.. at least from a business perspective.

most marina's in Ontario do not make their bread and butter on ski boats and there are a lot of tire kickers because the prices are steep for ski/wake boats.

I can help the gentleman get in touch with the best malibu sales and support in the province.

At the end of the day I do think that ski boat dealers in Ontario have to step up to the levels of some of their US counterparts. Many brands have changed hands in recent years and product knowledge is limited in most cases.

I own a nautique and wouldn't think about taking my boat to the nautique dealer in Ontario for anything again! I love the boats, but if I was buying or servicing I wouldn't deal with them. I would buy a different brand before I dealt with them, no matter how brand loyal I am.

In Ontario Mastercraft has the best dealer network bar none... Malibu has changed dealers a few times because the boatmax crew went t*** up.. since bought out again.. some units going to the Pride (nautique group) but they never knew S@#$ about ski boats. Sun and Ski lost out on the deal and were the only Malibu dealer for as long as Malibu's were sold in Ontario until recent years where they were looking for more exposure. They may very well have sold more boats (doubt it and would like to see the numbers) but their dealer rep has suffered.

there a few dealers that do know whats going on and are focusing a lot of attention on learning and maintaining the Malibu brand.