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Hydro-Lock with FAE Installed !


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Well its not supposed to happen but it happened to me this past weekend.  It was a super hot day and the boat would not turn over even one revolution after working fine for several ski and then surf runs.  We thought because of the heat it was vapor lock, so we waited for it too cool.  Nope 5 hours later still will not turn over.  Pulled off the risers and the plugs pulled and 2 of the cylinders had water in them not fuel.  So turned over the engine several times to get out the water, dried the plugs and put everything back together.  It took several tries and lots of starting fluid but she runs great now.  I tested the oil and no water is present in the flame test.  I ran the boat all last season with the FAE installed no issues.  This season I took out the silent ride muffler and straight piped it like so many here have done.  I put 20 hours on the boat since the second modification of straight pipe.  I have since reinstalled the silent ride muffler for extra insurance.  I was reading on the FAE website that removing the flappers should not cause any problems.  I am wondering what I am do to prevent this from happening again.  Any suggestions?

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Posted (edited)

Yikes! I just did the muffler delete this year as well.  Now wondering if that was a mistake given your issues.  Like you said, there has been a ton of people that have done this before us - If you are to believe FAE claims then you would be the first one to ever encounter this issue.  Just hard for me to believe that water would have enough pressure to back up all that way with the engine running and exhaust pressure present?  I mean there is cooling water being pumped into those pipes on purpose when the engine is running.

Two scenarios that FAE suggests that water could possibly be pushed back up into the engine are 1. The engine dies while moving and the result wake hits the boat after the engine dies.  2. The boat is backed down into the water on the trailer really fast (engine again is not running in this case).  But FAE also suggests that this is highly unlikely given the shape of the FAE not lined up in a way to get direct water force into the end of the pipe.

At any rate, be nice to know what happened to you as this is concerning to me now.

Edited by lake4life
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1 hour ago, lake4life said:

Yikes! I just did the muffler delete this year as well.  Now wondering if that was a mistake given your issues.  Like you said, there has been a ton of people that have done this before us - If you are to believe FAE claims then you would be the first one to ever encounter this issue.  Just hard for me to believe that water would have enough pressure to back up all that way with the engine running and exhaust pressure present?  I mean there is cooling water being pumped into those pipes on purpose when the engine is running.

Two scenarios that FAE suggests that water could possibly be pushed back up into the engine are 1. The engine dies while moving and the result wake hits the boat after the engine dies.  2. The boat is backed down into the water on the trailer really fast (engine again is not running in this case).  But FAE also suggests that this is highly unlikely given the shape of the FAE not lined up in a way to get direct water force into the end of the pipe.

At any rate, be nice to know what happened to you as this is concerning to me now.

Yea I wanted to let others know it happened.  I do not have flappers anymore.  FAE says they are not needed but now I want them

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Sorry to hear that. Hope it's all good to go now.

I did FAE with muffler delete two years ago and haven't had any issues. I did spring for the flappers just for extra insurance. It sounds like crap at idle, as you can hear the flappers tapping. But after reading about what happened to you, I'm glad I added them.

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3 hours ago, Kojak said:

Sorry to hear that. Hope it's all good to go now.

I did FAE with muffler delete two years ago and haven't had any issues. I did spring for the flappers just for extra insurance. It sounds like crap at idle, as you can hear the flappers tapping. But after reading about what happened to you, I'm glad I added them.

Yes I’m thinking of adding flappers and reinstalling the muffler delete

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Anybody with turn-down exhaust has no flappers, just a baffle ring inside.  I put mine on in about 2014.  I do still have mufflers.

Which cylinders got wet?  Same side, or opposite sides?  Is the FAE damaged in any way?  When you say you "pulled the risers" you mean the manifolds, right?  Your engine should have one-piece cast aluminum ETX manifolds, I would think.  If you actually have risers on manifolds, double check to make sure they are not leaking around the gaskets.

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I had this happen on an I.O. decades ago. Accidently pulled the kill switch while at a high idle speed in gear. Best guess was no exhaust pressure let water back up the line because I was moving forward with no fire. Water in cyls prevented turn over and luckily burnt up starter. No other damage other than this leading to the discovery of my exhaust flapper was not connected. Completely different configuration I know but saying it can happen. Were you by chance still moving forward at last key off?

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20 hours ago, justgary said:

Anybody with turn-down exhaust has no flappers, just a baffle ring inside.  I put mine on in about 2014.  I do still have mufflers.

Which cylinders got wet?  Same side, or opposite sides?  Is the FAE damaged in any way?  When you say you "pulled the risers" you mean the manifolds, right?  Your engine should have one-piece cast aluminum ETX manifolds, I would think.  If you actually have risers on manifolds, double check to make sure they are not leaking around the gaskets.

Both middle cylinders on each side got wet.    Yes exhaust manifolds one piece aluminum risers were removed.  On my 383 I can’t reach the rear plugs without taking them off.  There was zero leaking around the gaskets or down to the oil pan

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1 hour ago, lake4life said:

@Zippymbr just curious what engine you have in your lsv?  Hammerhead?  340?

 

383 Hammerhead 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Zippymbr said:

383 Hammerhead 

Just so many people have done this setup for the last x number of years without any reported issues.  Just wonder what the difference is.  Could it be the Hammerhead manifolds sit a little lower (no idea just spitballing, also no idea how many hammerhead guys out there have done this setup)?  No cats on this engine if I'm not mistaken which having cats would be a little more resistance for water to egress through if it was just a splash or two - not that water in the cats would be a good thing either.  Nothing makes sense to me cause its just a long way for water to be pushed when the FAE opens downward.  Just strange but definitely makes a guy with this setup a little concerned for sure and appreciate you making the post.

Edited by lake4life
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On 5/23/2022 at 4:49 PM, Kojak said:

Sorry to hear that. Hope it's all good to go now.

I did FAE with muffler delete two years ago and haven't had any issues. I did spring for the flappers just for extra insurance. It sounds like crap at idle, as you can hear the flappers tapping. But after reading about what happened to you, I'm glad I added them.

Huh - that's a complaint I hadn't heard before - so you can actually hear the flappers tapping from inside the boat?  Little repetative noises like that can drive me crazy. 

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When you finished surfing did you sit for a period while heavily ballasted? I remember reading on here before, maybe from Woodski, that hot exhaust gases cooling down can have a draw or vacuum effect on the water in the exhaust hoses and potentially pull it back up into the combustion chamber if the waterline is close enough to the risers due to heavy ballast.

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I just had FAE installed with muffler delete this off season.  I don't know if I have the flappers.  We tow the boat behind the houseboat in the summer.  This has me a bit concerned....

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13 hours ago, drh said:

When you finished surfing did you sit for a period while heavily ballasted? I remember reading on here before, maybe from Woodski, that hot exhaust gases cooling down can have a draw or vacuum effect on the water in the exhaust hoses and potentially pull it back up into the combustion chamber if the waterline is close enough to the risers due to heavy ballast.

We did not surf much.  It happened while only partially filled ballast.  The swim platform was out of the water.  When we surf it’s deep in the water for reference.  Only 4 people on the boat

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12 hours ago, RyanB said:

I just had FAE installed with muffler delete this off season.  I don't know if I have the flappers.  We tow the boat behind the houseboat in the summer.  This has me a bit concerned....

I ran the boat with muffler delete and FAE for about 30 hours before I had a problem.  

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I have run a muffler delete with FAE for 2 season now with no issues.  With the angle of the cut at the tip of the FAE plus the angle up to the T fitting, angle back down to the hull, 90 degree rubber fittings on the inside of the hull that are not perfectly round, then high risers..... Just not sure that there is a good path of "least resistance" to get to the cylinders.  Mine is on the 340 Monsoon. 

Obviously, you had an issue, not denying that, but there are quite a few boats out there now with FAE and no flappers or muffler delete or both running with no issues.  Hopefully it was a one off issue and now that your engine is dry and running will continue to run with no issues.  

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53 minutes ago, blk93jeepzj said:

I have run a muffler delete with FAE for 2 season now with no issues.  With the angle of the cut at the tip of the FAE plus the angle up to the T fitting, angle back down to the hull, 90 degree rubber fittings on the inside of the hull that are not perfectly round, then high risers..... Just not sure that there is a good path of "least resistance" to get to the cylinders.  Mine is on the 340 Monsoon. 

Obviously, you had an issue, not denying that, but there are quite a few boats out there now with FAE and no flappers or muffler delete or both running with no issues.  Hopefully it was a one off issue and now that your engine is dry and running will continue to run with no issues.  

@blk93jeepzj Just for info completeness sake, do you have the FAE flappers or no?

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1 minute ago, lake4life said:

@blk93jeepzj Just for info completeness sake, do you have the FAE flappers or no?

2004 Monsoon 340

FAE, Muffler delete, no flappers (factory or FAE)

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  • 2 weeks later...
formulaben

FWIW, I installed FAE in spring 2015, then did muffler delete in spring 2017.  I am pretty positive I have well over 300 hours with that configuration, and that's with flappers removed with original FAE install.  I have the standard SBC Indmar Monsoon 350/5.7 CI (320 HP).

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