Beginner Foiling setup?

[soonerbilly]

On 8/5/2022 at 12:56 PM, hunter77ah said:

I have the slingshot with the 76. Let me know if you are interested in buying it. I’m considering getting rid of it. My wife doesn’t like it (I think it’s a blast). It’s hard to justify keeping it when I am the only one who rides it. 

How much? I have a crazyfoil conversion that's just not quite cutting it.

[shawndoggy]

Picked up a chopped HS1250 wing.  Wow what a difference from the 1550v2. The 1550v2 was just a bit big for me, I think (180).  I’m getting plenty of lift from the 1250 and it’s WAY more controllable. No video, but I made transfers both ways on the second wake (a first). I’m even learning where to aim on the transfer. 

[Smokedvw]

If you are learning IMO go buy a slingshot 84, learn with that for a season then go buy a real foil like the Axis or Armstrong.

I ride the Axis 1050 / 440 and have a few different tails including some very aggressive ones.   It was night and day going from Slingshot, great cruising, super stable, easy to learn to the Axis.  Felt like an old sedan vs a race car.  Your ability to flick the tail and carve the wave is drastically different between the Slingshots and Axis rears or some other aggressive ones.

I am at the point @shawndoggy I need to do wake transfers.  I do need a new board though, I'm riding a old LF Foil fish and its not very stiff to really pump it properly.  I am going to try again this weekend to do some pumping and test it out again to see if I can transfer wakes.

At this point I have 0 issues riding for 10+ minutes with a 2001 VLX with just he wedge down and a LF mega wedge shaper off the side.  I could ride it without the shaper but I find it fun to get back on the wake then ride it in as if it was a wave to then carve out, drop back and do it all over again.

I'll post a video if I get my transfer going

[shawndoggy]

2 hours ago, Smokedvw said:

If you are learning IMO go buy a slingshot 84, learn with that for a season then go buy a real foil like the Axis or Armstrong.

I ride the Axis 1050 / 440 and have a few different tails including some very aggressive ones.   It was night and day going from Slingshot, great cruising, super stable, easy to learn to the Axis.  Felt like an old sedan vs a race car.  Your ability to flick the tail and carve the wave is drastically different between the Slingshots and Axis rears or some other aggressive ones.

I am at the point @shawndoggy I need to do wake transfers.  I do need a new board though, I'm riding a old LF Foil fish and its not very stiff to really pump it properly.  I am going to try again this weekend to do some pumping and test it out again to see if I can transfer wakes.

At this point I have 0 issues riding for 10+ minutes with a 2001 VLX with just he wedge down and a LF mega wedge shaper off the side.  I could ride it without the shaper but I find it fun to get back on the wake then ride it in as if it was a wave to then carve out, drop back and do it all over again.

I'll post a video if I get my transfer going

I was doing transfers both ways on the slingshot 76 and big WF1 board.  I don't think the board really matters for transfers.  What's going wrong on your transfers now?  Post some vids!  We've all seen the super smooth guys who can pump for days, but learning how to get over the minor disasters is how we all actually progress.  

[Smokedvw]

Ill post something up once I get back out there.  Ill have a friend driving this weekend so well see vs normal driver.

[ctvandy23]

Pic from yesterday…my buddy was foiling the first wave when a dude flying an efoil appeared behind us.  

[ctvandy23]

Since we started foiling we have kept our mast position all the way to the rear.  What is everyone doing as far as mast position as they progress?  Advantages to moving it forward on the board?  

[mxmark4]

2 minutes ago, ctvandy23 said:

Since we started foiling we have kept our mast position all the way to the rear.  What is everyone doing as far as mast position as they progress?  Advantages to moving it forward on the board?  

I have bumped mine forward some as I have progressed. Im not too far forward, but i noticed that it changed my foot position. 

[ctvandy23]

5 minutes ago, mxmark4 said:

I have bumped mine forward some as I have progressed. Im not too far forward, but i noticed that it changed my foot position. 

Did it change performance in any way?

[mxmark4]

29 minutes ago, ctvandy23 said:

Did it change performance in any way?

Feels about the same to me. I have not moved it too far forward. 

[CaptainMorgan]

finally dropping the rope some and riding that first wave w/out any ballast (super fun, and will probably be even more entertaining when i learn to turn and/or pump to extend runs and connect waves...i'll take the intermediate win though!). 

the foot straps are nice to have consistent foot placement and help connect foot to board for those small movements.  Board is 110cm Dwarfcraft. mast is a GoFoil 28" i think, wing is the GoFoil RS1000.  i really like the setup (still not mine, but favorite one of my buddies that i've tried -- if i wasn't always going with him anyway, i'd probably buy it for myself).

Caution though, another guy trying for the very first time used the footstraps and had some real awkward falls when his feet didn't slip out as expected (no injuries, but scared him a bit).  i'd suggest the half-straps for first few trips before trying the straps.

Edited August 29, 2022 by CaptainMorgan

[mxmark4]

@shawndoggywhen you were still on your slingshot setup did you fond it difficult to pump? I have found my happy spot for riding ropeless in the first wake, and can ride there comfortably, if I try to pump sometimes it feels really firm and sometimes it feels almost mushy underfoot. I equate that with losing speed, but pumping this foil sure doesnt look like what I see wakethief doing on an axis foil. I have a feeling its all me but I cant help but wonder if theres something im missing.

[shawndoggy]

3 hours ago, mxmark4 said:

@shawndoggywhen you were still on your slingshot setup did you fond it difficult to pump? I have found my happy spot for riding ropeless in the first wake, and can ride there comfortably, if I try to pump sometimes it feels really firm and sometimes it feels almost mushy underfoot. I equate that with losing speed, but pumping this foil sure doesnt look like what I see wakethief doing on an axis foil. I have a feeling its all me but I cant help but wonder if theres something im missing.

Some of both. It’s not a GREAT pumping foil but can be pumped a little bit. My Armstrong setup almost never gets that “drop to the bottom” mush feeling. 

[mxmark4]

Rode 4 different foils yesterday with a new crew of guys and had an awesome time. Rode a lift high aspect ratio foil and had some trouble with it. Jumped back to my slingshot for a ropeless set on the first wake. Up next I rode an exo foil X2 which was crazy. Super stable, lifted at practically 0 mph and rode straight, but didnt turn great. Was very slow turning which took some getting used to but was a fun experience. Last foil I rode was the lift surf 200. Super playful, easy to save if you touched down with board. All in all an awesome day and the boat looked crazy with 4 foils strapped to it.

Edited September 1, 2022 by mxmark4

[CaptainMorgan]

On 9/1/2022 at 5:06 PM, mxmark4 said:

Rode 4 different foils yesterday with a new crew of guys and had an awesome time. Rode a lift high aspect ratio foil and had some trouble with it. Jumped back to my slingshot for a ropeless set on the first wake. Up next I rode an exo foil X2 which was crazy. Super stable, lifted at practically 0 mph and rode straight, but didnt turn great. Was very slow turning which took some getting used to but was a fun experience. Last foil I rode was the lift surf 200. Super playful, easy to save if you touched down with board. All in all an awesome day and the boat looked crazy with 4 foils strapped to it.

always good to make friends with fun toys - keep the reviews coming.  i've been riding my friends GoFoil stuff - best part about that is each front/rear wing only needs 1 screw to install. makes it real easy to swap between riders.

and that Supra looks TALL. i know foiling is less sensitive to wave shape etc, but how was the Supra compared to what you're used to?

[mxmark4]

1 hour ago, CaptainMorgan said:

always good to make friends with fun toys - keep the reviews coming.  i've been riding my friends GoFoil stuff - best part about that is each front/rear wing only needs 1 screw to install. makes it real easy to swap between riders.

and that Supra looks TALL. i know foiling is less sensitive to wave shape etc, but how was the Supra compared to what you're used to?

Supra did great foiling. We had one guy riding second wave and one riding first wave on opposite side at the same time. Supra makes a great wave and we had ballast about half full. I usually ride without any ballast in my Moomba, so it was a taller wave but rode well. I just swapped my slingshot to B position which moves mast further back, so looking forward to trying that out. These guys all ride pretty good, only one that couldnt go ropeless in the group. They have one more guy who has some pretty exotic foils I am hopin to meet and try some of his stuff out. They all talk about him as being the foil whisperer. So it will be cool to try some more stuff out. 

[CaptainMorgan]

8 hours ago, mxmark4 said:

Supra did great foiling. We had one guy riding second wave and one riding first wave on opposite side at the same time. Supra makes a great wave and we had ballast about half full. I usually ride without any ballast in my Moomba, so it was a taller wave but rode well. I just swapped my slingshot to B position which moves mast further back, so looking forward to trying that out. These guys all ride pretty good, only one that couldnt go ropeless in the group. They have one more guy who has some pretty exotic foils I am hopin to meet and try some of his stuff out. They all talk about him as being the foil whisperer. So it will be cool to try some more stuff out. 

sounds like a blast.  yesterday we were foiling behind my A24 and buddy has started doing small jumps on the first wave.  He commented that my A24 wave (even fully ballasted) was easier to land on because it has more of a smooth ramp profile vs his MC X24 that has more curl and tends to throw him off balance when he comes down (so he tries to run very little ballast, making switching between surfers and foilers annoying).  I was happy to simply foil ropless for 2+min on my own, so it'll be a long time before i can relay any first hand experience on the finer points of foiling airs!

[mxmark4]

12 hours ago, CaptainMorgan said:

sounds like a blast.  yesterday we were foiling behind my A24 and buddy has started doing small jumps on the first wave.  He commented that my A24 wave (even fully ballasted) was easier to land on because it has more of a smooth ramp profile vs his MC X24 that has more curl and tends to throw him off balance when he comes down (so he tries to run very little ballast, making switching between surfers and foilers annoying).  I was happy to simply foil ropless for 2+min on my own, so it'll be a long time before i can relay any first hand experience on the finer points of foiling airs!

Is your buddy using foot straps? My board doesnt have straps but I am looking at building a carbon board this winter with inserts for straps. Would like to try the straps and eventually work my way into trying to get som air under me. 

[CaptainMorgan]

17 minutes ago, mxmark4 said:

Is your buddy using foot straps? My board doesnt have straps but I am looking at building a carbon board this winter with inserts for straps. Would like to try the straps and eventually work my way into trying to get som air under me. 

Yes. He has straps for over top of your foot, and even a separate heel strap taken off some scuba flippers. That gets him pretty locked in which helps his airs and pumping out and back into open water or passing wakes

I use the top-foot straps but not the heel as I need to get out sometimes and you could definitely twist a knee as foil falls can be awkward. Even the top foot straps dont always release clean so I wouldnt recommend for beginners.  

On that note, learning not to fight the fall was a big lesson I learned hard way.  I'm also learning to visualize riding/control the wing way below me vs riding the board (if that makes sense).

[mxmark4]

Rode the slingshot in B position today for the first time. Looked like a first timer out there when I set my feet to my previous postions. Second time around I shifted my feet forward and it was just like it was before. Foil seemed a bit faster as its now moved further towards front foot. Bit quicker turning, just more playful in general. Sad thing is I was trying this behind my boat while the guy pulling me was test driving my boat to purchase. So it might be my last ride behind my boat, until I decide what Im buying next. 

[CaptainMorgan]

9 hours ago, mxmark4 said:

Sad thing is I was trying this behind my boat while the guy pulling me was test driving my boat to purchase. So it might be my last ride behind my boat, until I decide what Im buying next. 

which is going away the Moomba or the Sunsetter?  is foiling enthusiasm driving the decision? 

Seems like foiling is the most forgiving wake-sport, so i can't decide if that makes it easier to live with basically any boat, or if its a gateway drug to wanting the biggest/baddest surf boat so you can go back to 5th+ wave and carry a bunch of these riddiculously large foils

[mxmark4]

The sunsetter left at Easter and the Moomba is on the chopping block now. If I get lucky I am getting a new boat. I have made some friends who ride and foil a lot so I should still have people to go out with, but we wont be getting any of those 7 am rides after kids get on the school bus that we love to do if this deal goes through. 

[CDAWake]

Reviving this discussion as it’s been over a year. I really want a foil setup for next summer, I would rather get something that’s harder to initially learn on but I won’t be bored with quickly. Any thoughts? Seems like there are some setup for around $1500, I’m really hesitant to spend that much money on a setup that will get boring quickly (too big of a board, maybe too stable of a wing)… 

[CaptainMorgan]

19 hours ago, CDAWake said:

Reviving this discussion as it’s been over a year. I really want a foil setup for next summer, I would rather get something that’s harder to initially learn on but I won’t be bored with quickly. Any thoughts? Seems like there are some setup for around $1500, I’m really hesitant to spend that much money on a setup that will get boring quickly (too big of a board, maybe too stable of a wing)… 

for beginner setups at the $1500-2000 range, you're probably looking at Slingshot or maybe liquid Force.  both will get you up and be a fun change from surfing...but never heard of anyone getting the hang of foiling and then 'moving up to a Slingshot'.  

so if going for a 'serious' foil setup, you're probably talking a purchase over $3000 (to start!), and i'd look at Armstrong, Axis, or GoFoil (Each will have dozens of front wings, in comparison to Slingshot which has like 3).  There are pre-made setups, but the main difficulty is being overwhelmed with decisions of board, front wing, rear wing, and mast (then of course you need to place the mast on the board which takes some experimentation).  Problem is that the hardware from each manufacturer is not compatible with other manufacturers, so once you pick a brand, you are vendor-locked.  if you have friends with boards, that can be a deciding factor, letting you swap between components to mix things up.

I can speak to GoFoil primarily as i borrowed my friends setups of them for like a year before finally purchasing my own (he became a distributor so had variety i could try before buying).  we have a buddy that has Armstrong and he says its great for Wing Foiling (like when you hold the kite) but if he was doing more behind the boat he prefers the GoFoil stuff, but plenty of people on TMC have Armstrong and speak highly of it so perhaps he's using a Wing Foiling setup that's not great for behind a boat.  if you plan on getting into Wing Foiling, that's a different big/high volume board, but things like mast and tail and maybe front wing can be re-used. 

RE GoFoil --> i have the RS1000 front wing, 4'4" 30L board, 70cm mast, and 12.5" tail.  The board especially is great because it has a flipped-up nose, so if the board touches the water it doesn't nosedive (especially helpful when doing airs).  the wing is just right for me (at 170 lbs) as i can carve plenty but still pump out into flat areas to switch from first to second wake or out and around a lighthouse back to the boat (posted those pics elsewhere on TMC, possibly highlight of the summer).  

in general, high aspect ratios mean better gliding and pumping and can ride smaller wakes, but are harder to turn and thus harder to learn on but good for things like Wing Foiling in light winds when you need to get on foil at really low speeds.  given you have an A24, you'll have plenty of wave to work with (i've ridden on 4th wake back no issue), so no need to fight with higher aspect ratios in my opinion.  once you get good and have a full setup, then a wing swap is a <$1000 change and can significantly change the experience. 

so i'd try to narrow down your vendor, then whoever else has uses that vendor can probably steer your more carefully given weight, use case/goals, etc.  Just start your savings plan now, this is an expensive rabbit hole you're about to go down LOL

[ctvandy23]

We are an Axis crew, so always happy to discuss what we have tried if you go with that brand!