Beginner Foiling setup?

[shawndoggy]

20 minutes ago, hunter77ah said:

I struggle with scrubbing speed. I tried the front foot down method. It didn’t end great lol. Thankfully the slingshot board can be ridden on the surface and is really buoyant. 

If you are riding the wake (as opposed to just flying the board long line), the scrub really comes from getting the foil out of the lifting wake.  It's very hard to find a spot to "just stand there" while surfing the foil.  Either you are getting a jet boost from the lifting wake, or you are out in the dead zone.  The trick is to just get enough of a taste of the push to keep you going out to the dead zone, and to turn back in for more lift before you run out of steam.

[shawndoggy]

43 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:

i've tried starting on the inflatable/big/buoyant foils where i start on knees and climb up while driver pulls at 3mph...i found it very difficult to find foot placement as i clambered around, and as i moved arms around there would be slack temporarily that would then pull me off balance (and it doesn't take much to cause a total fail).  Given a background with wakeboarding and surfing, it was much more natural to do a deep-water start, wakeboard style with board perpendicular to rope.  that way my feet were in right spot and like @Slurpee said, once i got the extra front foot pressure, the starts got easy (staying up is a different beast of course).

Foot straps or no straps?

[hunter77ah]

13 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

If you are riding the wake (as opposed to just flying the board long line), the scrub really comes from getting the foil out of the lifting wake.  It's very hard to find a spot to "just stand there" while surfing the foil.  Either you are getting a jet boost from the lifting wake, or you are out in the dead zone.  The trick is to just get enough of a taste of the push to keep you going out to the dead zone, and to turn back in for more lift before you run out of steam.

I don’t think I was turning out far enough. This is helpful. Thanks!

[shawndoggy]

To turn I found it helpful at first to think of steering with your front foot. Like moving your front leg laterally in the direction you want to go. Soon enough it will transition to feeling more “carvy,” but at first it’s hard to figure that out because you are effectively surfing on a stilt. If you get too much yaw in the wing, things get bonkers quick. So “flat turning” with a lateral leg movement is much more stable. 

[CaptainMorgan]

46 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

Foot straps or no straps?

No straps - felt/looked like a small inflatable SUP but not stable enough to stand for me at 170#. It was remarkably sturdy for an inflatable 

It was a visitor who brought it and was my very first time trying anything foil. He insisted it was the way to go for newbies but didnt click for me.  Next time a different friend brought a 110cm dwarf craft with Axis 1150 and I did wakeboad starts and after half dozen pulls to figure out the front foot pressure, I could reliably get out of water...but that high aspect ratio was brutal to learn after that.

Still haven't pulled trigger on my own, so remain at mercy of friends who all have diff advanced setups.

[shawndoggy]

2 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:

a 110cm dwarf craft with Axis 1150

haha that is NOT what I'd recommend as a beginner setup!  We have a friend that bought the same setup last season and I think still has get to get control of it standing up.  He did get up on our slingshot pretty quickly... crashed a bunch because he wanted to skip all of the "learn to fly" steps before surfing it, but that's the price you pay for youthful exuberance.  

[tspark]

I bought a Armstrong 4’ board and a 1550v2 foil. I could not ride the 4’ board I tried for weeks and never could get up longer than a few seconds. I ended up buying a hyper lite Ute 5’ and was up ridding in two try’s. Switched back to the Armstrong 4’ board and love it now that I know how to ride 

[ctvandy23]

It’s comforting to see that we are not the only ones struggling to get the hang of this damn foil thing!  One day it feels like, hey I’m finally getting it, only to find out the following day that we are not!

[tspark]

8 hours ago, ctvandy23 said:

It’s comforting to see that we are not the only ones struggling to get the hang of this damn foil thing!  One day it feels like, hey I’m finally getting it, only to find out the following day that we are not!

The learning curve was long for me but totally worth it. I ride for about 45 min each day on the weekends we get to go before the wife gets tired of pulling me.  After I learned on the long rope went to 1st wave the next weekend and started having fun 

[mxmark4]

I have been watching the foil academy videos from slingshot and they had some really helpful hints that worked well and that I am going to put to use. One is moving the back foot farther forward to eliminate foiling on startup. Second is a hint from here which was to lift the rope to help drive the nose down. Last is making sure I get myself totally centered on the board, that has helped with the gentle carving I have been doing. Let a couple folks try it out the other night and it was funny to watch someone eat it besides me. The short mast has been a big help. Gonna ride it for a few more weeks before I swap to the longer mast. 

[Slurpee]

One tip that helped us a lot early on was starting way off to the side of the boat.  Like 30-45 degrees off to the side and having the boat do a slight turn as well to keep you there.  Calm water.  I kept eating it at first, and we hit on that idea because it'd feel like something tossing me around a few seconds after launch.  I didn't have the skill to ride through it.  We speculated that it was about when I hit the turbulent water from the boat launching that something wild would happen.

[CaptainMorgan]

mini-success below -- buddy took off the advanced pumping foil and put on a Go Foil something (the red RS series i think, not totally beginner foil but far more forgiving).  still used the Dwarfcraft 110cm board and same 28" mast, but what a difference the foil made.  i was like 8 for 8 in starting wakeboard-style (vs maybe 30% success rate on the Axis 1150).  i could also 'reliably' stay up for 30+ seconds at a time and usually fell when i tried to do something proactive like turn LOL. 

it definitely took a little to get used to floating ~1ft above the water, and judging height and push were tricky, but there were moments when rope went slack and i'm calling that a huge win.  goal for next time is to try dropping the rope entirely and see if i can find the push.

for reference, i was behind an MC X24, 11.4mph, no water ballast (he has 1000 lbs of lead tho), no tabs used, 70 ft rope i think put me right on 2nd wave.  When buddy rides, he uses Surf-Left-Mellow all ballast full, at 11.4mph and on his pumping foil he can go back to 10th wave - which is dangerously far/detatched from the "tow" boat so we only try that when water is devoid of others.

[BarliBear]

Equipment: Liquid Force Horizon 160 kit

Barli specs: 6’3” 225lb

Boat config: Ballast 25%, no wedge, surf gate engaged, 11mph.

Started tinkering with it this last fall and had a bit of an a-ha moment with it this last week. 

Foot placement was a big key for me. I do like the straps, but the important thing is to put your feet around center of the screw holes.. not with your rear foot against the bump of the traction pad like you would for surfing. So much more control and balance because it was taking a crazy amount of front foot down pressure.  

I also use the rear shim for less loft and the balance is pretty sweet. 

Can’t use your ankles for turning which is certainly taking some getting used to. Think about swinging your shoulders instead. 

When falling, I think about going down with the ship. 

Hole shot is more like a hole slug. The gentlest start possible and I’m up on the foil about 4mph. Stay out of the center especially for that initial blast. That shot of water makes the foil want to surface like the Red October. Started with long rope in second wave but it was getting a bit hard to manage. Moved up to first wave with surf rope as long as it can go on the ski pylon. Easier to manage the slack and can grab it with my other hand if I need to save myself. 

 

 

[tspark]

This is how I have been getting up.  No straps just holding the board and using the boat to hold my feet on it 

[mxmark4]

What a day! Finally starting to feel some push on second wake, think I need to move my rope back about 5-10 ft to really get in it better. Im at the very edge of it currently.  And I was able to pump it and generate a bit of slack in the line too yesterday! Was such an amazing feeling! Moving my rear foot forward a bit helped a lot with early takeoffs, and we increased speed back to 10mph. Thinkin my next move will be trying my longer mast again and seeing if the extra height will let me pump it a bit more. With the 18 in mast pumping is a bit difficult as you dont have a lot of extra room below to keep the board off the water. 

[ctvandy23]

 

Progress!  I can actually drop the damn rope and manage this beast for a few seconds.

 

[shawndoggy]

1 hour ago, ctvandy23 said:

 

Progress!  I can actually drop the damn rope and manage this beast for a few seconds.

 

YES!  What's your setup?

[ctvandy23]

We have a 3’10 Appletree board with the Axis BSC 970 front wing and the 400 rear wing.  We originally ordered the Axis Wakethief package, but found that the PNG 1150 was a tough wing for behind the boat.  May give it another try at the end of the season, but the 970 was the perfect way to get our sea legs working!  At this point we have been foiling first wake with no ballast and surf gate left.  Seems to provide a clean and stable push.  Would love to jump back to second wake before the seasons over.  

[mxmark4]

I have graduated back to the taller mast and had a hell of a good pump way out into the flat beside the boat but couldnt get back over to the wake. Also have found that on the first wake, i can get in close just like surfingn but then the foil starts to rise until it surfaces and I slam down and lose it. Needing a longer rope to get back into the second wake( ran over my wake rope) so I can really work on getting the ropeless ride going on. 

 

[WakeandLake]

On 3/2/2022 at 11:20 AM, CaptainMorgan said:

Looking to jump on the foiling bandwagon this summer; would appreciate suggestions on starter foil setup.  (sorry if this repeats old threads, but tech in this area has been changing rapidly anyway)

Background:

- foiled a couple times last summer behind a friends slammed mastercraft X24 on his Axisfoil 1125 (the "wakethief" setup) on 70ft rope.  handful of successful attempts standing up, and the feeling of flying above the water was way cool, but short lived

- the huge wake and high-aspect dock-start foil setup was unforgiving and not a great way to learn the first time...but enough to pique my interest in getting my own

- i'm 170# and comfortable wakeboarding, slalom, surfing etc, but foiling is a different beast.  goal would be to ride 1st and 2nd waves (like those @shawndoggy clips in other threads).

- Given cost of these things, would be great if i had one setup that me and kids/wife could all use (maybe with a small change like wing switch to go from beginner/easy to intermediate)...BUT i don't want to trade 'too much' performance to get a universal fit; very interested in others' experience sharing/outgrowing/compromising on their initial foil setups (cheaper initially isn't always cheaper if it means i'm upgrading soon)

Thanks for any thoughts!  #summeriscoming

We have the liquid force launch with a 24” mast and low aspect LF wing and love it. Can easily ride the surf wave and can also ride the second wave with a bit of pumping. Not too touchy, and carves like a dream. Great beginner foil.

[shawndoggy]

On 8/1/2022 at 11:02 AM, mxmark4 said:

I have graduated back to the taller mast and had a hell of a good pump way out into the flat beside the boat but couldnt get back over to the wake. Also have found that on the first wake, i can get in close just like surfingn but then the foil starts to rise until it surfaces and I slam down and lose it. Needing a longer rope to get back into the second wake( ran over my wake rope) so I can really work on getting the ropeless ride going on. 

 

When the foil starts coming up you need to do two things (really 3): first, start cutting out into the "dead zone" and away from the powerful lift of the first wake, second roll your weight forward (over your front hip).  The third thing is to anticipate that this is going to happen so you are basically already cutting back out when you get the power from the lifting wave.  As you run out of speed in the dead zone, you should already be cutting back in to get a taste of that push from the lifting wave.  

EDIT: above also assumes your foil is already all the way back in the tracks.

 

Edited August 5, 2022 by shawndoggy

[CaptainMorgan]

4 minutes ago, WakeandLake said:

We have the liquid force launch with a 24” mast and low aspect LF wing and love it. Can easily ride the surf wave and can also ride the second wave with a bit of pumping. Not too touchy, and carves like a dream. Great beginner foil.

thanks, haven't taken the plunge (analysis paralysis mostly).  think some 80 lbs kids could ride it too?  my wife thinks foils are stupid (never tried one herself, just blanket statement from afar), but kids are getting curious, especially seeing my buddy do the double-boat bowl thing i posted elsewhere.  So if they up their nagging and i find a one-size-fits-all option, i may be in business.

[shawndoggy]

1 minute ago, CaptainMorgan said:

thanks, haven't taken the plunge (analysis paralysis mostly).  think some 80 lbs kids could ride it too?  my wife thinks foils are stupid (never tried one herself, just blanket statement from afar), but kids are getting curious, especially seeing my buddy do the double-boat bowl thing i posted elsewhere.  So if they up their nagging and i find a one-size-fits-all option, i may be in business.

Have seen a few people on the wakefoil surfer FB group slow-towing their kids, who've been riding the foils sit down/kneeboard style.  

That said a foil that will lift a 200lb adult is going to be a lot of lift for a little kid.  In the same way that you wouldn't make a little kid surf a grownup's surfboard.  It might be a good time to get into a used slingshot setup.  You could easily switch wings between a 76 for grownups and a 68 for the kids.  The 68s are not that desireable and can be had for cheap, and the slingshot packages (with 76 wing) seem to be popping up more and more in the used market as people upgrade.  The 76 is a great beginner setup, though is falling out of vogue in comparison to more expensive/high performance/upgradeable options.

[hunter77ah]

I have the slingshot with the 76. Let me know if you are interested in buying it. I’m considering getting rid of it. My wife doesn’t like it (I think it’s a blast). It’s hard to justify keeping it when I am the only one who rides it. 

[WakeandLake]

28 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:

thanks, haven't taken the plunge (analysis paralysis mostly).  think some 80 lbs kids could ride it too?  my wife thinks foils are stupid (never tried one herself, just blanket statement from afar), but kids are getting curious, especially seeing my buddy do the double-boat bowl thing i posted elsewhere.  So if they up their nagging and i find a one-size-fits-all option, i may be in business.

ShawnDoggy put it pretty well. We just got back from Powell, and one of the little kids there tried to ride it. The kid is 85 lbs soaking wet, and was able to get up and keep it skimming above the surface for a couple seconds at 10 mph but nothing more. Better to get a short masted wing and swap it out when needed. A smaller board like a P5 chip might be a good decision as well if you’re going to have little folks riding it.