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Flake gel colors staining?


MadCan

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We have a T250 on order and heard that the flake colors stain at the water line and dont come clean even if hull cleaner is used. Our color choice is Machine Silver Flake and part of it will be at or slightly below the water line. Ive had previous boats in the same lake this one will be sitting in and even though they come out nasty as can be, hull cleaner always does the trick. Should I be hesitant to have any flake that low on the boat? Any input while I still have time to change would be awesome!!!

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We are in Georgia on a lake with a clay bottom, so boats left in the water get a brown stain.  My boat has white, black, and purple metal flake below the waterline.  The metal flake is the easiest to keep clean on my boat.  Your lake, stains and experiences may differ.  

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19 minutes ago, malibudog said:

We are in Georgia on a lake with a clay bottom, so boats left in the water get a brown stain.  My boat has white, black, and purple metal flake below the waterline.  The metal flake is the easiest to keep clean on my boat.  Your lake, stains and experiences may differ.  

I never had problems with my VLX which had moonbeam and white. Came right off. Just not sure if the story I heard was from lack of maintenance or if they actually used hull cleaner or not. Itll come out of the water every couple weeks to clean but I want to avoid any irreversible stains.

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LakeWAninja
1 hour ago, MadCan said:

We have a T250 on order and heard that the flake colors stain at the water line and dont come clean even if hull cleaner is used. Our color choice is Machine Silver Flake and part of it will be at or slightly below the water line. Ive had previous boats in the same lake this one will be sitting in and even though they come out nasty as can be, hull cleaner always does the trick. Should I be hesitant to have any flake that low on the boat? Any input while I still have time to change would be awesome!!!

Yes, this is known issue with metal flake below the water line.  It darkens the overall gel coat and cleaners don't help.  Buffing can help a little, but not enough to make it go away.  Hull cleaners remove the algae, but that's different issue.  My dealer is pushing me on the T250 to keep all metal flake above the water line.  

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6 minutes ago, LakeWAninja said:

Yes, this is known issue with metal flake below the water line.  It darkens the overall gel coat and cleaners don't help.  Buffing can help a little, but not enough to make it go away.  Hull cleaners remove the algae, but that's different issue.  My dealer is pushing me on the T250 to keep all metal flake above the water line.  

Im guessing by you profile name we'll be in the same boat, same lake, same issue. Flip side scheme with machine silver flake. Is it because of lack of maintenance at all? Ive been known to wax 8 times a season. Also guessing were getting the same feedback haha. Im torn.

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Seen it happen lots particularly on the light silvers, blues and grey metal flakes. Mostly on boats that sit in the water all season. If you regularly take the boat out of the water, clean it, and let it dry out you shouldn’t have a problem. 

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15 hours ago, Maas said:

ceramic coating on boat

 

/problems

I haven’t heard much feedback on ceramic below waterline. That was my first thought, I just don’t know much about it. 

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11 hours ago, Cole2001 said:

Seen it happen lots particularly on the light silvers, blues and grey metal flakes. Mostly on boats that sit in the water all season. If you regularly take the boat out of the water, clean it, and let it dry out you shouldn’t have a problem. 

It’ll get pulled and cleaned every couple weeks. 

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On 10/8/2021 at 3:19 PM, MadCan said:

Im guessing by you profile name we'll be in the same boat, same lake, same issue. Flip side scheme with machine silver flake. Is it because of lack of maintenance at all? Ive been known to wax 8 times a season. Also guessing were getting the same feedback haha. Im torn.

I don’t think it’s a maintenance issue, but relates to the boat sitting in the water all the time and a kind of “oxidation” effect that happens. If I had a lift then I wouldn’t hesitate have flake at the water line.  My last boat was LSV with grey metal flake at the waterline and the darkness was super noticeable. 

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On 10/8/2021 at 11:03 PM, Cole2001 said:

Seen it happen lots particularly on the light silvers, blues and grey metal flakes. Mostly on boats that sit in the water all season. If you regularly take the boat out of the water, clean it, and let it dry out you shouldn’t have a problem. 

^this^

Gel coat is actually porous. If you leave it in the water for really long periods of time water molecules can make it to the flake itself and cause discoloration.

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2 hours ago, 23LSVOwner said:

^this^

Gel coat is actually porous. If you leave it in the water for really long periods of time water molecules can make it to the flake itself and cause discoloration.

100% correct. The reason you only see it on metal flake is the top coat is a clear coat. No way to fix other than strip it down and respray.

And this is not covered by warranty.

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The only sealant I have ever seen that actually worked properly was a full prep of the hull and then a clear coat of epoxy aircraft paint (e.g. Imron, Awlgrip, etc.) applied over it.  If the prep is done right, the paint will stick and seal very well.  It was done to a boat that a friend restored.  I bought it from him and never had to wax that boat at all.  The scum line literally just wiped off.

It would be a huge endeavor, but I am considering doing it to my 1999 Sunsetter to bring back the gel color and stop the battle with the scum line.

Note:  Those products are not recommended for below the waterline, but I trailer my boat and expect good performance.  I would not use them if I stored my boat in the water.  If I did store it in the water, I would use a good bottom paint up to the waterline.

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13 hours ago, Maas said:

Can't you just acid wash the boat to remove the stains?

 

I keep the boat out of the water, so it always looks perfect

 

 

No. Because the discoloring is UNDER the clear coat. The water soaks through over time.

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So is this a problem through all manufacturers or specific to Axis/Malibu? I couldnt imagine forking out the money for an M240 just end up with an irreversible stain on a color thats a factory option. With that said, anyone know of any boat lifts for sale on Lake Washington? :thumbup:

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9 hours ago, MadCan said:

So is this a problem through all manufacturers or specific to Axis/Malibu? I couldnt imagine forking out the money for an M240 just end up with an irreversible stain on a color thats a factory option. With that said, anyone know of any boat lifts for sale on Lake Washington? :thumbup:

ALL manufacturers. And NONE of them cover it under warranty.

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13 hours ago, MadCan said:

So is this a problem through all manufacturers or specific to Axis/Malibu? I couldnt imagine forking out the money for an M240 just end up with an irreversible stain on a color thats a factory option. With that said, anyone know of any boat lifts for sale on Lake Washington? :thumbup:

I’ve seen it happen on Malibu the most, tige, and centurion as well. Never seen it happen on a Nautique and that’s the most popular brand in my area. 
 

I don’t know about Malibu but I have heard of tige covering it under warranty but not only under certain circumstances. Manufacturers state very clearly in the manual to not leave boats in the water for extended periods of time. 

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anybody leaving a 120-220k trailerable boat in the water for extended periods of time with metal flake gel coat or other for more than a one to two week lake trip deserves what ever happens to their boat 

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28 minutes ago, dcarl said:

Why not just buy a lift? Less than 10% of the cost of your boat, well worth the piece of mind.

I wish this was the case. Lots of marinas don’t allow for it unfortunately. I could walk right out my door and have my boat in the water but can’t have a lift so keep it on the trailer or a friends lift further away.  

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8 hours ago, granddaddy55 said:

anybody leaving a 120-220k trailerable boat in the water for extended periods of time with metal flake gel coat or other for more than a one to two week lake trip deserves what ever happens to their boat 

 

5 hours ago, dcarl said:

Why not just buy a lift? Less than 10% of the cost of your boat, well worth the piece of mind.

If you would read previous comments you'd know I'm not asking because It'll be in the water for "extended periods". It will get pulled regularly. For some people a lift isn't an option, whether it's cost or regulations. For me its a little bit of both. Regardless of flake I already plan on pulling it out every couple weeks. If I can get in a slip that allows a lift and I can fit it in the budget that's what I'll do then its a non issue, not just for the flake oxidizing. I also wasn't looking for opinions on how I use my boat.

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31 minutes ago, MadCan said:

I also wasn't looking for opinions on how I use my boat.

Oh, man.  Now I'm depressed.  I thought that was the whole point of this site!  :biggrin:

By the way, I consider a week in the water an "extended period."  A good sealant might extend that extended period for you, though.

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