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Boat choice not discussed much, M 220 vs 25 LSV


Surf4FamFun

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On 9/22/2021 at 6:06 PM, Chappy said:

I am with you, this happens to me maybe once a year and every time it is bc I wasn't paying attention so that is on me not the boat.

After reading and listening ot others I think I understand the bow dip issue in the MXZ at least for me.  Having had an LSV and MXZ the MXZ dips more frequently.  The primary reason I started looking at the MXZ is that on the afternoon trips to the lake with the kids we were bow light and the 23 MXZ is as I understand lt 420 pounds heaver in front of the helm than the 23 LSV.  This is a combination of more structure and larger bow ballast tank.  On adult trips it is easy to get three adults in the MXZ bow and on occasion we have four.  Using those numbers having a MXZ that is 550 pounds heaver in the bow than a same length LSV would be typical with a large crew.

With a full boat frequently we have two people sitting at the front facing the rear.  That puts a good 270 pounds at the nose. Thinking about it when the bow dips there is always a scramble for phones, people sitting at the front looking to the stern getting wet buts.   When we take the adults out on the 23 MXZ my approach has been to fully load the bow regardless of crew size looking for a long wake.  I trim ballast in the stern tanks as we add people but not the bow.  I mean if you cant have the tank full why is it that big?  From comments I think others (wisely) are trimming ballast more evenly as crew size increases.  It has been rare but I do remember wondering if the 600 pound bow limit was a real thing because we were at or over it with people.

Too late in the season to test the theory but pretty sure most of the differences in what people are reporting in the bow dip in the MXZ can be explained by the bow being heavier and having space to put more people in and my not trimming bow ballast.  It is not so much how the boat is driven but how it is ballasted that is making the difference.  Bit embarrassing but that is I think my mistake.  So using a calculator, guessing the ladies weight light when I was having the most trouble with this over the summer I would have 1,800 pounds of human cargo and a full bow tank with two people sitting at the front looking back leaning against the bow and a third or fourth facing the rear.  Having typed this out an putting numbers on it feel pretty silly taking this long to put this together.  

This make sense to people?

PS:  No I was not the load master on the car carrier that rolled off the GA coast a few years ago.

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On 9/22/2021 at 9:49 AM, Chappy said:

What tweaks would you suggest to the M220 to get this epic performance you refer to? 

I surf my 24 MXZ and 25 LSV stock ballast/PNP full with no extra lead or weight, same for the M220 I was on.  I am not a fan of adding lead to these boats as you shouldn't have to, to get them to perform at a high level when paying $150-200K.  Let me clarify, the wave wasn't bad it just wasn't what I expected for the hype and definitely not better than the 24MXZ/25LSV.

Stock with PNP bags the M220 and M240 have too much weight in the rear.  Start the day with 60%-70% rear, and full front and mid.  2 clicks of wedge, more for the guys that like short steep waves.  As the day progresses, add rear ballast, or wedge, to offset fuel burn.  No lead needed in these boats. I like lead in the MXZ series because you just can't get the bow down low enough otherwise, IMHO.

Nose dip in the M240 is real, and the M220 bow was designed to be proportionally taller to reduce this.  Supposedly, the next redesign of the M240 will include this bow design element. 

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On 9/26/2021 at 10:04 PM, Surf4FamFun said:

After reading and listening ot others I think I understand the bow dip issue in the MXZ at least for me.  Having had an LSV and MXZ the MXZ dips more frequently.  The primary reason I started looking at the MXZ is that on the afternoon trips to the lake with the kids we were bow light and the 23 MXZ is as I understand lt 420 pounds heaver in front of the helm than the 23 LSV.  This is a combination of more structure and larger bow ballast tank.  On adult trips it is easy to get three adults in the MXZ bow and on occasion we have four.  Using those numbers having a MXZ that is 550 pounds heaver in the bow than a same length LSV would be typical with a large crew.

With a full boat frequently we have two people sitting at the front facing the rear.  That puts a good 270 pounds at the nose. Thinking about it when the bow dips there is always a scramble for phones, people sitting at the front looking to the stern getting wet buts.   When we take the adults out on the 23 MXZ my approach has been to fully load the bow regardless of crew size looking for a long wake.  I trim ballast in the stern tanks as we add people but not the bow.  I mean if you cant have the tank full why is it that big?  From comments I think others (wisely) are trimming ballast more evenly as crew size increases.  It has been rare but I do remember wondering if the 600 pound bow limit was a real thing because we were at or over it with people.

Too late in the season to test the theory but pretty sure most of the differences in what people are reporting in the bow dip in the MXZ can be explained by the bow being heavier and having space to put more people in and my not trimming bow ballast.  It is not so much how the boat is driven but how it is ballasted that is making the difference.  Bit embarrassing but that is I think my mistake.  So using a calculator, guessing the ladies weight light when I was having the most trouble with this over the summer I would have 1,800 pounds of human cargo and a full bow tank with two people sitting at the front looking back leaning against the bow and a third or fourth facing the rear.  Having typed this out an putting numbers on it feel pretty silly taking this long to put this together.  

This make sense to people?

PS:  No I was not the load master on the car carrier that rolled off the GA coast a few years ago.

This actually makes a ton of sense. 

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12 hours ago, bigskydoc said:

Stock with PNP bags the M220 and M240 have too much weight in the rear.  Start the day with 60%-70% rear, and full front and mid.  2 clicks of wedge, more for the guys that like short steep waves.  As the day progresses, add rear ballast, or wedge, to offset fuel burn.  No lead needed in these boats. I like lead in the MXZ series because you just can't get the bow down low enough otherwise, IMHO.

Nose dip in the M240 is real, and the M220 bow was designed to be proportionally taller to reduce this.  Supposedly, the next redesign of the M240 will include this bow design element. 

Yes, with PNP in the m220 you can easily overweight it both for surf and for wake. 
I am finding for surf you wanna weight it full front and center then just enough in the rears to sink the tabs slightly under water. (Obviously that changed with crew)

For wakeboarding the m220 is finicky as hell but when dialed in has one of the best wakes I have ever ridden. With a smaller crew I am finding that bow empty, center 75% rears at 75% wedge 4 at 72.5 feet and 21.8 it is crazy good. Trouble is it is really easy to over weight it and it goes to s***. Just really strange as it is not like any other Malibu before it. 

And if you dip the nose of the m220 you are either auditioning for the Deadliest Catch or you have done something very wrong. The M220 handles oncoming waves and bigger lake chop better than any Malibu I have been in. even the 25s.

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