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Stumped! Limp mode at 3,500 RPM, only in surf mode??


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MuchoAloha

Hey guys,

2020 Axis A24 M5 - Bought with 120hrs... now has 250. Have kept this boat in tip top shape with maintenance and care. 

A few weeks ago, we were out surfing and boat threw the MIL light on. Shut the boat down, started back up, surfed and after 10min, MIL came back on. Repeated two more times and then no more MIL light.

Was showing inactive codes 4237 and 4239... turns out these are downstream O2 sensors on the cats report rich mixture. Dealer said it was most likely bad fuel.

Being at 250 hrs, figured it was time to swap the spark plugs so I did that, new tank of premium (I always run premium) and a big bottle of Seafoam. Took it out and no more MIL light (Have been out 4 times and no MIL light at all). BUT... here's the catch... In surf mode, the boat WILL NOT go over 3,500rpm no matter what.

Trust me, I have tried literally everything. Less weight, no GPS, pull throttle back then pin it... etc etc. Out of surf mode, I can pin 5,000rpm no problem. I have an ACME 3077 prop. Usually run 3,300rpm surfing starboard side and about 3,700rpm port side. Sometimes, depending on wind and weight, boat needs to kick up to 3,900rpm with port surfer to keep up with GPS (11 - 11.3... wedge 4-5)

Before the MIL light, zero issues doing this. Never a problem over 100+ hrs... only started after MIL light came on.

In fact, if the boat climbs to 3,500rpm too fast, the boat will pull back to about 2,800rpm and then slowly creep back up to 3,500rpm and stay right there.

Figured maybe since the inactive codes were still there, maybe that was still the issue.... Called local boat tech, he hooked up to the ECM and he said all the numbers looked perfect. Fuel trims, temps, ohms etc. Engine running while on trailer. 

So he cleared the codes and said I should be fine.

(Dealer said they couldnt look at it for 3+ weeks. This tech has worked on our boats before, very trusted... plus all I needed was for him to hook up and give the ECM a look.)

Took it out Sunday and still will not go past 3,500rpm. Codes are for sure cleared, nothing showing up. Engine sounds and runs great. Again, this is only in surf mode. I can pull the throttle back to neutral, turn surf gate and GPS off and get back on it and it'll get to 30mph - 4,500rpm no problem in a matter of seconds, no issues.

Anyone else experience this on a M5 or M6? If so, what was the resolve?  

Thanks in advance. 

Edited by MuchoAloha
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MuchoAloha

@Surf4FamFun Not 100% sure what you mean but I am going to answer no. I have come to a pretty definitive conclusion that when the surf gate is engaged, the computer engages this 3,500rpm limit. Changing weight, speed or wedge does not allow the boat to go over 3,500rpm... UNLESS I turn off surf gate. With surf gate turned off, I can have same weight and wedge in same position and the boat can get to 20mph at 4,000rpm no prob. The 3,500rpm limit only happens when surf gate is on.

If you read again, I can be cruising at 11mph, wedge at 4, surf gate set to port side... rmp limited to 3,500... then pull back to neutral, turn surf gate off... and then throttle up to any rpm and speed I want... all within about 20 seconds.

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So you never get to surf speed on either side because rpms are usually higher than 3500 when surfing at 11.0 -11.5 mph? I’m eager to hear others chime in 

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I think what @Surf4FamFun is asking is if the boat is unloaded/no ballast, and no wedge, but you've engaged surfgate, you still can't get past 3500 rpms?

^^^ and if that would allow you to set cruise at say 12.6 without getting to 3500 in the first place, what happens if you start adding wedge and ballast from there?  Will the boat not hold 12.6 once the 3500 rpm wall is reached?

I'm going to confess that I'm unfamiliar with how cruise works on a 2020 axis.  However, I wonder... is there an "RPM mode" on your cruise that got triggered inadvertently?  If surfgate is off, can you set cruise for say 32 mph, and the boat will hold it (in excess of 3500 rpms) no problem?

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MuchoAloha

@Livinlogs Correct, it'll reach maybe 9.7 - 10mph and stay right there, of course at 3,500.  @Surf4FamFun I think I misunderstood your question... while surfing, if I drop the wedge to 1 or 2, it'll reach the set speed... but obviously the wave is pretty un-surfable at that point. 

 

@shawndoggy Correct, surf gate engaged, not going past 3,500rpm at all. With everything unloaded and wedge at 1 or 2, I can reach the set speed, but obviously the wave is trash. I am wondering the same thing, but I'm thinking if it did kick into a "RPM Mode", it's a protective measure and not something I can change in the menu. I haven't quite tried setting GPS at 32, but I did try turning GPS off while surfing and just use the throttle to hold speed, I would bring the throttle down a bit and then lay into it to try and force it past 3,500rpm and it just won't do it. As soon as it hit 3,500... it stays right on it... doesn't bounce around it, I mean you'd think the needle got stuck.

So I feel like I've tried all the combos to narrow down the constant variable which I confident that surf gate being on is the culprit. 

What I want to hear from someone on here is that its a ECM/Software/Reset kind of fix. So we'll see.

 

  

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41 minutes ago, MuchoAloha said:

@Livinlogs Correct, it'll reach maybe 9.7 - 10mph and stay right there, of course at 3,500.  @Surf4FamFun I think I misunderstood your question... while surfing, if I drop the wedge to 1 or 2, it'll reach the set speed... but obviously the wave is pretty un-surfable at that point. 

 

@shawndoggy Correct, surf gate engaged, not going past 3,500rpm at all. With everything unloaded and wedge at 1 or 2, I can reach the set speed, but obviously the wave is trash. I am wondering the same thing, but I'm thinking if it did kick into a "RPM Mode", it's a protective measure and not something I can change in the menu. I haven't quite tried setting GPS at 32, but I did try turning GPS off while surfing and just use the throttle to hold speed, I would bring the throttle down a bit and then lay into it to try and force it past 3,500rpm and it just won't do it. As soon as it hit 3,500... it stays right on it... doesn't bounce around it, I mean you'd think the needle got stuck.

So I feel like I've tried all the combos to narrow down the constant variable which I confident that surf gate being on is the culprit. 

What I want to hear from someone on here is that its a ECM/Software/Reset kind of fix. So we'll see.

 

  

Have you tried "restore defaults" in the menu?

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53 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

Have you tried "restore defaults" in the menu?

I think this is the path to follow.  Restore defaults, then restart the boat.  This should give a clean reboot.

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Subbed - Had something similar this weekend. It’s at the dealer now.

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MuchoAloha

@WakeSS same symptoms? Anything different happen to yours than mine? I doubt my dealer will give me an update anytime soon due to backlog… mind posting here once you hear from yours? Thanks in advance.

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Absolutely, will post as soon as I hear anything. Please do the same if you hear before I do!

 

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Had an issue of mine going into limp mode but would be at WOT with no weight.  Dealer first said fuel, then fuel filter...neither worked.  Finally did a compression test and it was good so replaced the injectors and now it is 100%.

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On 8/6/2021 at 2:04 PM, WakeSS said:

Absolutely, will post as soon as I hear anything. Please do the same if you hear before I do!

 

I haven’t heard anything yet, should be next week. But I did see where someone posted that with our codes, the ECM can turn off the adaptive fuel learning and set the 3,500 limit… it then takes Malibu software to unlock and reset it. My local (non Malibu) tech said that this is most likely the answer. So hoping it’s as simple as dealer getting in, resetting it and good to go.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/10/2021 at 5:18 PM, RoverOn said:

Had an issue of mine going into limp mode but would be at WOT with no weight.  Dealer first said fuel, then fuel filter...neither worked.  Finally did a compression test and it was good so replaced the injectors and now it is 100%.

Well, with full weight and wedge, I can get to 25mph no problem, RPMs at 4,000… but as soon as I turn GPS and surf gate on, it will not go past 3,500. 

Edited by MuchoAloha
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On 8/6/2021 at 2:04 PM, WakeSS said:

Absolutely, will post as soon as I hear anything. Please do the same if you hear before I do!

 

Hey man, dealer just called. Said Malibu had to send them a new “Info center” … this is in the dash and different from ECM.

Hopefully that helps!

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Thanks for the update. Still waiting on my dealer but I just emailed him with your diagnosis. Thanks!

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, WakeSS said:

Thanks for the update. Still waiting on my dealer but I just emailed him with your diagnosis. Thanks!

I probably could have included this, but he said this it the control unit/info center for all the surf gate, wedge and surf gate controls and when certain codes get thrown, it can mess with the control unit and sometimes that control unit stays stuck.

 

He said it would originally take them a while to diagnose but I had recorded a video of the boat maxing out at 3,500 with surf gate, then immediately shutting surf gate off and then throttle to 4,500 no problem. He said he sent that video to Malibu and they knew exactly what it was. They got the part yesterday and my boat is ready to pick up today.

Hope you get yours back soon.

Edited by MuchoAloha
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On 8/13/2021 at 7:14 AM, MuchoAloha said:

Well, with full weight and wedge, I can get to 25mph no problem, RPMs at 4,000… but as soon as I turn GPS and surf gate on, it will not go past 3,500. 

Bit different than the "limp mode" I have experienced.   Limp mode I expereinced is when the throttle is completely unresponsive and only gives you a bit above idle.

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On 8/20/2021 at 12:03 PM, RoverOn said:

Bit different than the "limp mode" I have experienced.   Limp mode I expereinced is when the throttle is completely unresponsive and only gives you a bit above idle.

Yea more of a "governor" if you will.

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On 8/19/2021 at 7:55 PM, WakeSS said:

Thanks for the update. Still waiting on my dealer but I just emailed him with your diagnosis. Thanks!

Hey just a heads up, this did not fix the issue. Dealer had it for 3 weeks... My radio head unit was not working, I broke that plastic clip on the outside of my tower when you go to lower it.... and this main 3,500rpm issue. They fixed one thing, they swapped the radio head unit. I was pretty upset to say the least.

My guess is that they need to suck it up and swap the ECM and be done with it. 

(And to add salt to the wound... a suburban hit the boat on the way home from the dealer. Trailer took a beating and boat took three big gel coat scratches. Woohoo hah)

 

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