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M220 Prop selection?


geogilbert

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Came up on another conversation, I figured I would start one dedicated to M220 props selection. 

Let's try to compile some data here and see what shakes out.

Elevation = 600ft So basically sea level.

Engine M6

Acme 3311 18x 14 

Top Speed 34.6

Surf RPM - 10.6 - Full ballast + 550 PnP - Wedge 3 = 3800 rpm
Wakeboard RPM - 75% in rears and center 22mph - Wedge 4= 4300

ACME 3079 18 x 17

Top Speed 40.2

Surf RPM - 10.6 - Full ballast + 550 PnP - Wedge 3= 3200
Wakeboard RPM - 75% in rears and center 22mph - Wedge 4- Wedge 4= 3800

Edited by geogilbert
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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

2022 M220

Elevation - Sea Level

Engine - M6

OJ 1784 (18 x 14) - Factory Prop

Top Speed 36.8

Surf RPM - 11.2 - Full ballast + 400 PnP + 10 people (3 adults + 7 kids between 10 and 17) = 3400

Wedge @ 2

 

I have an Acme 3315 (18 x 15) coming this week that I will update on.

Edited by NewMalibu
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I thought the standard prop was a 17x14?  Any disadvantages to 18 over 17?  I'm running the speed prop on a 2021 23 MXZ and love it but was concerned about stepping up to it on the M220.  

That said, @NewMalibu numbers are pretty good.  18x17 sounds like a big jump.

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1 hour ago, pauley71 said:

I thought the standard prop was a 17x14?  Any disadvantages to 18 over 17?  I'm running the speed prop on a 2021 23 MXZ and love it but was concerned about stepping up to it on the M220.  

That said, @NewMalibu numbers are pretty good.  18x17 sounds like a big jump.

The 18 x 14 is the factory 'High Altitude' prop. I'm not a prop expert, but I think the only 'disadvantage' is that you are moving more mass with an 18" prop vs a 17". that being said, the M6 does not seem to have any issues turning it what so ever. I had the Raptor 450 in my 23LSV and that sometimes struggled (I think I had the 2249 - 15 x 14.25 prop) when I had a lot of people/weight. 

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The M6 has zero issues with turning the prop. I just have a bunch of cavitation on the 18x14. Almost constant while wakeboarding. But it did have sickining power just a lower top end. 

The 18x17 cleaned up the cavitation (There is basically none now) added significant top end which really translates into a higher comfortable cruise speed. And lowered the RPMS for Wake and Surf. 

Only downside is I had a large crew and it was a bit slow out of the hole when fully loaded. But, we subsequently found that you cannot overload the boat or the wake turns to junk. Too much weight is bad. 

 

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Tonight I ran an Acme 3315 (18 x 16). here are my initial results.

2022 M220

Elevation - Sea Level

Engine - M6

Acme 3315 (18 x 16)

Top Speed 38.7

Surf RPM - 11.2 - Full ballast + 400 PnP + 10 people (2 adults + 4 kids between 10 and 15) = 3150-3200

Wedge @ 2

 

while the surf RPM's were lower than the OJ prop, it didn't have the hole shot of the OJ. it wasn't bad, but we also had less people weight. I was surprised that the top end wasn't a little higher. I think I am going to stick to the OJ 18x14 and use the Acme 18x16 as my spare.

I didn't have the cavitation with either prop that @geogilbert had with his Acme 18x14. I was once told that OJ props are thicker/stiffer than the Acme props (don't know if that is true or not). if it is true, I wonder if that has anything to do with the cavitation that @geogilberthad?

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On 8/24/2021 at 11:13 AM, geogilbert said:

The M6 has zero issues with turning the prop. I just have a bunch of cavitation on the 18x14. Almost constant while wakeboarding. But it did have sickining power just a lower top end. 

The 18x17 cleaned up the cavitation (There is basically none now) added significant top end which really translates into a higher comfortable cruise speed. And lowered the RPMS for Wake and Surf. 

Only downside is I had a large crew and it was a bit slow out of the hole when fully loaded. But, we subsequently found that you cannot overload the boat or the wake turns to junk. Too much weight is bad. 

 

We mainly surf but occasionally wakeboard but never run full ballast because ... well honestly, I'm not that good.  I appreciate the feedback but will probably go 18x17 .. or maybe the 18x16 if that is an option since its a little more middle of the road.

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  • 1 year later...
On 8/30/2021 at 10:03 AM, pauley71 said:

We mainly surf but occasionally wakeboard but never run full ballast because ... well honestly, I'm not that good.  I appreciate the feedback but will probably go 18x17 .. or maybe the 18x16 if that is an option since its a little more middle of the road.

Did you ever upgrade?

On 8/24/2021 at 11:13 AM, geogilbert said:

The M6 has zero issues with turning the prop. I just have a bunch of cavitation on the 18x14. Almost constant while wakeboarding. But it did have sickining power just a lower top end. 

The 18x17 cleaned up the cavitation (There is basically none now) added significant top end which really translates into a higher comfortable cruise speed. And lowered the RPMS for Wake and Surf. 

Only downside is I had a large crew and it was a bit slow out of the hole when fully loaded. But, we subsequently found that you cannot overload the boat or the wake turns to junk. Too much weight is bad. 

 

I kept thinking about cavitation yesterday as I was surfing.   Is this just observed visually "underneath" the wave?   I can see plenty of it, but is it assumed the goal is to reduce it?    Wouldn't less cavitation only indicate more efficient operation at that specific RPM?   Obviously if surfing is the primary activity, then visual cavitation at surf speeds is not good, but is it possible to eliminate it?   I'm a mechanical/automotive engineer by trade and understand fluid dynamics, and I'm a tinkerer so want to change the prop eventually.  I have an M6 at 1070' MSL with 17x15.5 3077 prop that came on the boat.  I want to try an 18x16 3315 or maybe the 18x17 3079, but haven't seen many people mention actual cavitation as part of their prop change assessments.   @geogilbert hasn't posted in a while, so assuming he won't reply, but anyone else with experience here or the patience to explain in more depth to a noob?   Thanks in advance.   

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3 hours ago, dizzygti said:

Did you ever upgrade?

I did not.  Took the standard prop offering but haven't had any complaints.  I typically order a 'speed' prop but there wasn't any clear consensus when I was ordering so didn't over-think it.  Buy the 18x16 and report back  :) 

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18 hours ago, pauley71 said:

Buy the 18x16 and report back  :) 

Probably will after the season....my wife decided to break her pinky finger, while surfing, and needed surgery.  So I've lost my boat driver for a month!  :rant:

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  • 2 weeks later...

2023 M220

Elevation - Sea Level

Engine - M6

OJ 2708 (17 x 14)

Surf RPM - 11.2 - Full ballast + 800 PnP + 3 people (1 adults + 2 kids between 10 and 13) = 3550 - 3750

Cruise RPM - 23 mph @ 3650 (I didn't top it out, it's still in break in)

Wedge @ 1 and 2

Hole shot was great, boat easily made 10.8 - 11.6 for surfing.

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13 hours ago, lycono said:

2023 M220

Elevation - Sea Level

Engine - M6

OJ 2708 (17 x 14)

Surf RPM - 11.2  = 3550 - 3750

Hole shot was great, boat easily made 10.8 - 11.6 for surfing.

At sea level, with the M6 and a 14 pitch, I would expect hole shot to be great.    I'm also surprised the RPM's aren't a little higher, but that's based off my boat/setup, and may be less length/weight coming into play.   

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54 minutes ago, dizzygti said:

At sea level, with the M6 and a 14 pitch, I would expect hole shot to be great.    I'm also surprised the RPM's aren't a little higher, but that's based off my boat/setup, and may be less length/weight coming into play.   

Agreed.. when I am running that prop on my '21 23 LSV with M6, I am running around 4k+ loaded for surfing/wakeboarding.  It is now my spare prop and run the OJ 1770 and surf/wakeboard just fine.

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1 hour ago, dizzygti said:

At sea level, with the M6 and a 14 pitch, I would expect hole shot to be great.    I'm also surprised the RPM's aren't a little higher, but that's based off my boat/setup, and may be less length/weight coming into play.   

Could be that wedge is only 1-2, so the bow isn’t pitched up too much. 

The 17x17 lets you run wedge 3-4 and still has RPMs in the 3300-3400 range. I shouldn’t care so much about that prop but anything different is giving up a much more pleasant experience on the water.

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On 8/8/2023 at 11:30 AM, NWBU said:

The 17x17 lets you run wedge 3-4 and still has RPMs in the 3300-3400 range. I shouldn’t care so much about that prop but anything different is giving up a much more pleasant experience on the water.

Well said!

That prop is the bomb. also works great in a 2022 23 lsv with M5 (2805)

Edited by Swatski
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On 8/10/2023 at 8:17 PM, Swatski said:

Well said!

That prop is the bomb. also works great in a 2022 23 lsv with M5 (2805)

Makes me want to try the 18x17 on my M6...

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Ive been testing the Acme 4143! The more i run this prop the more i like it on my M220. Its a 17-5/8 x 14 135cup .. hole shot is amazing running full ballast plus 650pnps and about 300lbs of lead spread out from bow to stern. Doesnt seem to matter how many people i have whether my wife and two kids or four adults and four kids wave and rpms are consistent and im running on the columbia river with current.  11.4 mph wedge 3-4 ..rpms are around 3340 downriver  to 3500 up river. 
cruising up river 23.5mph is 3710rpm 25mph is 3800rpm. Downriver bout 150 less. They do have 2 other variations of this new style prop. Im running the more aggressive one. We wanted to giv this a true test before we thought about trying the others. But the others will sacrifice hole shot…

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/15/2023 at 10:14 PM, MountainRider05 said:

They do have 2 other variations of this new style prop. Im running the more aggressive one. We wanted to giv this a true test before we thought about trying the others. But the others will sacrifice hole shot…

Any update on the other options?   

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31 minutes ago, dizzygti said:

Any update on the other options?   

Been super happy with the prop that ive been running 4143- 17-5/8 X 14 135cup i think its the perfect happy medium and hole shot with heavy weight is awesome .. if i was going to try the other variations i think i would go with the 18-1/8” x 14 that they offer. I would call Dan at acme prop hes a great guy to chat at! 

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19 minutes ago, MountainRider05 said:

Been super happy with the prop that ive been running 4143- 17-5/8 X 14 135cup i think its the perfect happy medium and hole shot with heavy weight is awesome .. if i was going to try the other variations i think i would go with the 18-1/8” x 14 that they offer. I would call Dan at acme prop hes a great guy to chat at! 

Yeah, you had mentioned sacrificing hole shot, which is what I am interested in.   I have more that enough torque to pull surfers when loaded up and the boat is full of people.   I get that Dan/Acme is probably a great resource, but I'm looking for real world results.   I get that I may have to guinea pig, but this is a winter upgrade and I"m in no rush.   Thanks!  

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I talked to Eric and OJ.  I'm running the 1773 (17x14) and don't have any complaints except rpms and cruising (well, I guess those are complaints).  Had the 'speed prop' (no idea what model) on my MXZ and loved the lower RPMs and higher top end.  If I didn't have that, I guess I wouldn't know better.

He recommended the 1770 and based on @NWBU & @bcoppess23 feedback above it sounds like that might be the ticket.  I wanted to try a 18" but Eric thought the 1770 would be best (although he doesn't say THIS is the best selection - kind of non-commital lol).

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10 hours ago, pauley71 said:

I talked to Eric and OJ.  I'm running the 1773 (17x14) and don't have any complaints except rpms and cruising (well, I guess those are complaints).  Had the 'speed prop' (no idea what model) on my MXZ and loved the lower RPMs and higher top end.  If I didn't have that, I guess I wouldn't know better.

He recommended the 1770 and based on @NWBU & @bcoppess23 feedback above it sounds like that might be the ticket.  I wanted to try a 18" but Eric thought the 1770 would be best (although he doesn't say THIS is the best selection - kind of non-commital lol).

I have the 1773 as my spare prop.  Bought it with the boat thinking it was needed similar to my old VLX but that was a mistake.  I can do everything I need with the 1770 but reading the comments in this thread, has me interested in seeing what an 18" prop would do - would it even fit on a LSV?

@CentexMalibu is selling his 1770 if you haven't already purchased one.  You may try that route.

 

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