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A22 - 2019 with PCM 409 Monsoon vs. 2022 with M5Di Monsoon - big difference in perf?


TommyTuna

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Interesting question.  We have a 2022 A22 on order and most of the reviews on the boat were from 2019 when the a22 had its last "refresh".  They went to the M5/M6 in 2020 but there weren't any reviews (that I could find) of the M5 motor in the A22.

I would expect that there might be some 2022's hitting dealers in the next couple of weeks.  I wonder when the reviews of the new boats will start showing up online.

I'd like to hear what the others have to say on this too. 

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granddaddy55
4 hours ago, TommyTuna said:

Here is a 2020 review of A20 with M5di. The numbers are pretty remarkable however it looks like boat was prop'd for speed.

 

https://www.boatingmag.com/story/boats/axis-wake-research-a20-boat-test/

you are splitting hairs,  the issue was for the m5 was lack of power for bigger boats.  if you noticed last year when the heating up process for pricing started, many of the boats for sale were the boats dealers must have ordered with m5.  they were bigger boats usually.  don't remember any a20’s with it for sale used

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3 hours ago, granddaddy55 said:

you are splitting hairs,  the issue was for the m5 was lack of power for bigger boats.  if you noticed last year when the heating up process for pricing started, many of the boats for sale were the boats dealers must have ordered with m5.  they were bigger boats usually.  don't remember any a20’s with it for sale used

Is m5 considered enough for A22? I get that A24 could be a stretch for m5

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formerathlete

M5 has more torque than the 409 and it’s peak torque is in the mid-3000 RPM range vs the mid 5k range for 409. M5 is PLENTY for a fully loaded A20. 409 is too.

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7 hours ago, formerathlete said:

M5 has more torque than the 409 and it’s peak torque is in the mid-3000 RPM range vs the mid 5k range for 409. M5 is PLENTY for a fully loaded A20. 409 is too.

M5 enough for A22?  

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ndahlberg12
21 minutes ago, TommyTuna said:

M5 enough for A22?  

Depends on what you want to do with it. A buddy and I both ordered boats. He ordered a T22/M5 and I ordered an A22/M6.

There is a noticeable difference in power, even with the A22 being heavier. 

If you are worried about fuel consumption, this might not be the best boat to order. I am seeing 4-7 GPH with varying uses from booze cruises to surfing.
 

I debated the M5/M6 decision for WEEKS. I finally decided to take a few options (clamping racks for one) off the build and just get the M6. I can change the racks later, I cannot change the engine if I was unhappy with that. 

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formerathlete
51 minutes ago, TommyTuna said:

M5 enough for A22?  

I’m with @ndahlberg12, it really depends. What is your elevation, regular crew size, intended use, etc? From what I’ve heard the M5 is plenty for most situations for the A22 but an M6 leaves no doubt (and a dent in your budget). Maybe others on the forum who have an M5 in their A22 will chime in with their experiences but if I could swing it, I think I’d want the M6. Helps with resale too. 

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4 minutes ago, formerathlete said:

I’m with @ndahlberg12, it really depends. What is your elevation, regular crew size, intended use, etc? From what I’ve heard the M5 is plenty for most situations for the A22 but an M6 leaves no doubt (and a dent in your budget). Maybe others on the forum who have an M5 in their A22 will chime in with their experiences but if I could swing it, I think I’d want the M6. Helps with resale too. 

I'm at about 600 ft above sea level and don't ever forsee taking the boat outside the area to anything higher.  Won't be doing wakeboarding loaded - largely tubing, surfing, and cruising the lakes/sandbar/restaurant visits.  Nobody in my crew/family going to be professional at either sport:)

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9 hours ago, formerathlete said:

M5 has more torque than the 409 and it’s peak torque is in the mid-3000 RPM range vs the mid 5k range for 409. M5 is PLENTY for a fully loaded A20. 409 is too.

 

7 minutes ago, formerathlete said:

I’m with @ndahlberg12, it really depends. What is your elevation, regular crew size, intended use, etc? From what I’ve heard the M5 is plenty for most situations for the A22 but an M6 leaves no doubt (and a dent in your budget). Maybe others on the forum who have an M5 in their A22 will chime in with their experiences but if I could swing it, I think I’d want the M6. Helps with resale too. 

 

42 minutes ago, ndahlberg12 said:

Depends on what you want to do with it. A buddy and I both ordered boats. He ordered a T22/M5 and I ordered an A22/M6.

There is a noticeable difference in power, even with the A22 being heavier. 

If you are worried about fuel consumption, this might not be the best boat to order. I am seeing 4-7 GPH with varying uses from booze cruises to surfing.
 

I debated the M5/M6 decision for WEEKS. I finally decided to take a few options (clamping racks for one) off the build and just get the M6. I can change the racks later, I cannot change the engine if I was unhappy with that. 

Thx for the insights.  I would have figured the M6 in the A22 wouldn't work as hard so you'd actually see better fuel economy vs a harder working M5?  I'm leaning M5 too as original budget called for loaded A20 and now i'm thinking those two extra feet will be critical and trying to justify A22 and squeeze the price gap down.  A22 + M6 likely not in my reach.

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ndahlberg12
40 minutes ago, TommyTuna said:

 

 

Thx for the insights.  I would have figured the M6 in the A22 wouldn't work as hard so you'd actually see better fuel economy vs a harder working M5?  I'm leaning M5 too as original budget called for loaded A20 and now i'm thinking those two extra feet will be critical and trying to justify A22 and squeeze the price gap down.  A22 + M6 likely not in my reach.

I am running the speed prop to start. We were surfing the other day with bow/center full, read hard tanks full and the back 865’s about a third full are were spinning about 3200 RPMs. I am debating on going the next step up in prop cause I have zero need for top end. Our lake is small and we rarely ever go over 25mph. We only wakeboard with little ballast, surf and cruise. I have not been able to find many with the A22/M6 combo so data is hard to come by. I have been talking with Acme and Oj so far to find a happy medium. With that said, now knowing how effortlessly the M6 handles extra weight I would never go back to the M5. 
 

A20 vs A22 Is quite a jump. It’s not just length, you physically sit deeper in the A22 than you do the A20. When we bought our 2015 T22 we demoed an A20 as a family of 6. It took 5 minutes on the water to know we needed a bigger boat, ordered the T22 for a minimal up charge and put 500 hours on it. Momma wanted the pickle fork this time around so we went A22. Very glad we waited, cause with all of the “refresh” they have done the last few years the cabin feels the same on the newer A22’s as they do the T22, but the bow is significantly larger. 

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6 hours ago, ndahlberg12 said:

I am running the speed prop to start. We were surfing the other day with bow/center full, read hard tanks full and the back 865’s about a third full are were spinning about 3200 RPMs. I am debating on going the next step up in prop cause I have zero need for top end. Our lake is small and we rarely ever go over 25mph. We only wakeboard with little ballast, surf and cruise. I have not been able to find many with the A22/M6 combo so data is hard to come by. I have been talking with Acme and Oj so far to find a happy medium. With that said, now knowing how effortlessly the M6 handles extra weight I would never go back to the M5. 
 

A20 vs A22 Is quite a jump. It’s not just length, you physically sit deeper in the A22 than you do the A20. When we bought our 2015 T22 we demoed an A20 as a family of 6. It took 5 minutes on the water to know we needed a bigger boat, ordered the T22 for a minimal up charge and put 500 hours on it. Momma wanted the pickle fork this time around so we went A22. Very glad we waited, cause with all of the “refresh” they have done the last few years the cabin feels the same on the newer A22’s as they do the T22, but the bow is significantly larger. 

Yes my momma + kids love the big bow on A22 too which has me thinking this is the one!  I feel like with T22 / T220 you're only getting two ppl in bow where A22 you can get 3 easy 

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10 hours ago, ndahlberg12 said:

I am running the speed prop to start. We were surfing the other day with bow/center full, read hard tanks full and the back 865’s about a third full are were spinning about 3200 RPMs. I am debating on going the next step up in prop cause I have zero need for top end. Our lake is small and we rarely ever go over 25mph. We only wakeboard with little ballast, surf and cruise. I have not been able to find many with the A22/M6 combo so data is hard to come by. I have been talking with Acme and Oj so far to find a happy medium. With that said, now knowing how effortlessly the M6 handles extra weight I would never go back to the M5. 
 

A20 vs A22 Is quite a jump. It’s not just length, you physically sit deeper in the A22 than you do the A20. When we bought our 2015 T22 we demoed an A20 as a family of 6. It took 5 minutes on the water to know we needed a bigger boat, ordered the T22 for a minimal up charge and put 500 hours on it. Momma wanted the pickle fork this time around so we went A22. Very glad we waited, cause with all of the “refresh” they have done the last few years the cabin feels the same on the newer A22’s as they do the T22, but the bow is significantly larger. 

We are ordering a new T220 and i'm trying to decide if I should upgrade the engine. I think the T220 is 300lbs more then the A22 at 4800. We normally just have two people in the boat but definitely get concerned about being underpowered. It's hard because the boat doesn't exist yet, so there is no real world feedback.  

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So dealer got back to me on A22 pricing.  It's about 15k difference ($CAD) between similarly optioned A20 and A22.  I'd like to get this down to 10k delta and then likely a no brainer to go for it (with M5).

 

 

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19 hours ago, TommyTuna said:

So dealer got back to me on A22 pricing.  It's about 15k difference ($CAD) between similarly optioned A20 and A22.  I'd like to get this down to 10k delta and then likely a no brainer to go for it (with M5).

 

 

i would not buy a big boat with an m5!!!, they were the first boats for sale during pandemic and they are still popping up for sale from dissatisfied owners who are not admitting that in their sale add, first big crowd you take wakeboarding or surfing and you will regret it

 

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I am at sea level and max crew size would be 8 with most days just being our family of 4.  We don’t wakeboard so figure M5 should be more then enough for surfing, tubing and just good ole cruising and lounging at sandbar. I think if I was at higher elevations the M6 would be a must.

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There are thousands of 23' boats with the 350ci motors with much less power and torque and the owners figure it out with prop choices.  I do agree you might get back most of the M6 cost in either a faster resale and or better resale price but if you need the M5 for budget reasons to get into the boat I would not be afraid.

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