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2013 LSV - Surf Gate issues


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Surf gate won’t deploy on the left side.  Ride side works but then didn’t work.  Did Surf Gate calibration and neither side worked.  Then the right side worked.  Not sure why. 

At one point a Max Current Draw error came up but then it stopped and did not happen again.

This Surf Gate system sure has gremlins.  I’ve had the boat for 2 years and have never gotten it to work consistently. 
 

any ideas where to start?

Edited by Tomd2013
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Ok, after finding an older topic, the gremlins seem to be 1 of a few potential problems; actuator, bad wire - potentially exposed, loose bolt, bad relay.

so many 13-14’s with this type of problem.  Very disappointing and makes me want to sell and move to a 17 or 18.  

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As you found out, its not at all user serviceable and you'll have to go to the dealer.  I've suffered blown actuators and a bad ground.  If an actuator is bad the whole system will shut down so I'm guessing a loose ground (bad wire or loose bolt)  They don't sell those actuators anymore so you'll get an upgrade if they are  bad...the bad news is you'll have to pay for it. (2k+)  

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granddaddy55
11 hours ago, DrFred said:

As you found out, its not at all user serviceable and you'll have to go to the dealer.  I've suffered blown actuators and a bad ground.  If an actuator is bad the whole system will shut down so I'm guessing a loose ground (bad wire or loose bolt)  They don't sell those actuators anymore so you'll get an upgrade if they are  bad...the bad news is you'll have to pay for it. (2k+)  

lenco sells the actuator snd box, harness containing relay is from Malibu as proprietary,  @Tomd2013 start by removing the cap to control box with 1/4 inc open end wrench, the male pins at bottom (as mounted) are the left gate pins, probably corroded, if so replace harness and box as corrosion will come back.  jump the left gate straight from battery at deutch connector labeled left gate where relay is attached to stern, if it does not work in and out(reverse the polarity) , actuator is also bad, replace.  if it works but sounds inconsistent through out the stoke  (compared to a solid unchanging sound from jumping good actuator), it is bad, replace

if one side works, its never the integrated harness relay,  if male pins are corroded on box that transfer that to female harness cap, replace harness

your experiencing my exact problem, i am now free of all “gremlins” for first time in 2 seasons

speak to Ashley caneva at lenco for parts

Edited by granddaddy55
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rogermulligan

I've got similar problems with my 2013 vlx....  Right side frequently gets Max Current error message and then says that it is going to retract the gate,  but often does not.  I am able to get going again by pressing center button so that neither gate is deployed and then selecting the gate again  (problem gate is right side - starboard).

I found the deutch connectors as the stern that connect to the mating end connected to the control box.  I disassembled the connector and found corrosion on the pins and the copper wire at the crimp side (all green) I cleaned up with contact cleaner male and female pins.  did a water test,  same problem - starboard side only....

I am thinking next I will switch the two sides by plugging in the right side gate deutch connector to the Left side and vise versa and see if the problem moves to the left side or stays where it is.  if it moves then I am thinking it is not the actuator other wise it is.  if it is not the actuator,  then it needs to be either the harness to the control box or the control box itself...    I have not tried removing the cap to the control box yet,  but may do this at the same time to examine.  My concern/confusion is that there is another set of wires going into this same control box below the wires from the two gates - does anyone know what they are for/from?  

while I was cleaning up the contacts:

I also land tested the gates by jumping them to the battery directly,  worked just fine in both directions -  problem side may have sounded just slightly different but could have been my imagination...

I also tested the gates properly hooked up as normal by fooling the boat into thinking it was moving (by using my shop blower to spin the paddle wheel - works great)  in this case the gates worked many times in both directions,  no apparent problems... ????  Yet in the water there are problems with starboard gate,  I am thinking that maybe the problem gate is problematic only under load and thus causes the over current error message.  The swapping test should help determine this.

Any other ideas out there?  I am going to try contacting Lenco,  but Kevin at lenco, who was named in another crew post is away on vacation for a few weeks.

Sincerely,  Roger. 

 

 

 

 

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granddaddy55
43 minutes ago, rogermulligan said:

I've got similar problems with my 2013 vlx....  Right side frequently gets Max Current error message and then says that it is going to retract the gate,  but often does not.  I am able to get going again by pressing center button so that neither gate is deployed and then selecting the gate again  (problem gate is right side - starboard).

I found the deutch connectors as the stern that connect to the mating end connected to the control box.  I disassembled the connector and found corrosion on the pins and the copper wire at the crimp side (all green) I cleaned up with contact cleaner male and female pins.  did a water test,  same problem - starboard side only....

I am thinking next I will switch the two sides by plugging in the right side gate deutch connector to the Left side and vise versa and see if the problem moves to the left side or stays where it is.  if it moves then I am thinking it is not the actuator other wise it is.  if it is not the actuator,  then it needs to be either the harness to the control box or the control box itself...    I have not tried removing the cap to the control box yet,  but may do this at the same time to examine.  My concern/confusion is that there is another set of wires going into this same control box below the wires from the two gates - does anyone know what they are for/from?  

while I was cleaning up the contacts:

I also land tested the gates by jumping them to the battery directly,  worked just fine in both directions -  problem side may have sounded just slightly different but could have been my imagination...

I also tested the gates properly hooked up as normal by fooling the boat into thinking it was moving (by using my shop blower to spin the paddle wheel - works great)  in this case the gates worked many times in both directions,  no apparent problems... ????  Yet in the water there are problems with starboard gate,  I am thinking that maybe the problem gate is problematic only under load and thus causes the over current error message.  The swapping test should help determine this.

Any other ideas out there?  I am going to try contacting Lenco,  but Kevin at lenco, who was named in another crew post is away on vacation for a few weeks.

Sincerely,  Roger. 

 

 

 

 

you have said many things:

“I found the deutch connectors as the stern that connect to the mating end connected to the control box.  I disassembled the connector and found corrosion on the pins and the copper wire at the crimp side (all green) I cleaned up with contact cleaner male and female pins.  did a water test,  same problem - starboard side only....”

as per Kevin this is caused by water invasion of the actuator snd corrosion traveling up the lead to deutsch connector and you need to verify whether it infected the wire in male side that is part of harness

cleaning connector does not solve problem , new actuator comes with new connector but check male wire

“I also land tested the gates by jumping them to the battery directly,  worked just fine in both directions -  problem side may have sounded just slightly different but could have been my imagination...”

no not your imagination .  the power of a raw lead jump is much greater then the voltage from the h bridge and supporting circuitry in control box and that inconsistent sound compared to the solid sound from working side actuator is an issue.  my actuator had no corrosion at deutch connector and tested good through jump stroke with  clamp meter but was still bad snd that inconsistent sound was an indicator all along in my testing

i too had successful land attempts with bad water tests

sometimes switching did actually wake up a newly installed control box   but it was never a perfect indicator especially if you have a bad box and actuator

3rd pair of wires going into cap with SG wires should be the relay and its never the relay if any side works

removing the cap of control box with 1/4” and discover corrosion, it may be on bottom set of pins which is your working gate or left gate.  if you have this and think cleaning will fix, it will not and female cap to harness is now infected with same possibly necessitating replacement of proprietary harness as was my case

start with a new actuator, the cheapest solution, progress to a new box replacement that they may do a return on if you dont need one.  i had bad box(kevin tested bad) you may not but if pins are corroded you are fighting a losing battle on the harness and box

actuator and box were cheap and @COOPwas nice helping me get a harness as i have no dealer

less than 600 for. control box, actuator and harness

i did a post on the harness replacement

Ashley caneva can help with actuator and box

Edited by granddaddy55
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rogermulligan

Great feedback!  thanks for taking the time,  I am hoping that our discussions help others out there so we can all spend more time on the water.

I Talked to a Lenco Tech yesterday (Kevin was away on vacation) -  he was adamant that it was most likely the actuator even with a bit of corrosion on the pins.  He said that the water test puts a heavy load on the actuator via the open paddle and thus more current draw (and a failing actuator will have to work harder to open and close) and that it explains why it works on land and fails on the water.

To try and test the theory that it was the actuator,  last night, I swapped the cabling of the left and right gates to the harness pigtail connectors (thus right became left and vise versa).  The thought being that if it is the actuator,  that the problematic gate would remain where it was (starboard).   As Murphy would have it,  I had zero problems last night!  the gates both worked without problems.  I switched the cabling back a forth a few times to try to get something to fail.  No luck.  Maybe switching them caused some sort of reset,  or the act of plugging them in and out temporarily cleaned away some corrosion, or the gate is only just on the verge of failing and had a good night....

At this point,  I am going to purchase a new actuator and keep it with me in case of a future failure (likely) - a small price to pay to help ensure our up coming vacation isn't a bust.  I am also going to leave a jumper cable wired to the battery ready to connect directy to the gate connector if I need to retract it on the water. 

The tech I talked to said that lenco does not sell parts... yet,  granddaddy55 says that Ashley caneva can help? She is apparently in the parts department,  will she sell parts?

Does https://www.themalibucrew.com/index.php?/profile/35191-coop/   @COOP have a way of obtaining a rebuild box and/or harness?

Thanks again for all of the great feedback. Roger

 

 

 

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Thanks all for the info.  I will take some of the recommended steps and report back.  So frustrating!  

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To be honest, this topic is really frustrating. The number of things it could be and the challenge of DYI makes this really hard on the less than technically inclined.  Ie, I’m going to have to trailer my boat 90 miles and not have it for 2 weeks to get it fixed. 

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granddaddy55
On 7/13/2021 at 11:20 AM, rogermulligan said:

Great feedback!  thanks for taking the time,  I am hoping that our discussions help others out there so we can all spend more time on the water.

I Talked to a Lenco Tech yesterday (Kevin was away on vacation) -  he was adamant that it was most likely the actuator even with a bit of corrosion on the pins.  He said that the water test puts a heavy load on the actuator via the open paddle and thus more current draw (and a failing actuator will have to work harder to open and close) and that it explains why it works on land and fails on the water.

To try and test the theory that it was the actuator,  last night, I swapped the cabling of the left and right gates to the harness pigtail connectors (thus right became left and vise versa).  The thought being that if it is the actuator,  that the problematic gate would remain where it was (starboard).   As Murphy would have it,  I had zero problems last night!  the gates both worked without problems.  I switched the cabling back a forth a few times to try to get something to fail.  No luck.  Maybe switching them caused some sort of reset,  or the act of plugging them in and out temporarily cleaned away some corrosion, or the gate is only just on the verge of failing and had a good night....

At this point,  I am going to purchase a new actuator and keep it with me in case of a future failure (likely) - a small price to pay to help ensure our up coming vacation isn't a bust.  I am also going to leave a jumper cable wired to the battery ready to connect directy to the gate connector if I need to retract it on the water. 

The tech I talked to said that lenco does not sell parts... yet,  granddaddy55 says that Ashley caneva can help? She is apparently in the parts department,  will she sell parts?

Does https://www.themalibucrew.com/index.php?/profile/35191-coop/   @COOP have a way of obtaining a rebuild box and/or harness?

Thanks again for all of the great feedback. Roger

 

 

 

ok, Ashley and Kevin have been extremely helpful.  they supplied me with everything except my first replacement box free of charge because of mis diagnosis on the actuator readings from clamp meter (saying it was good) when it was bad all along even though it jumped.  they even sent me a second box just in case and Ashley def tracked me down to return it!!!!! after i didn't need it.  

Malibu isn't stocking that box anymore (may be now though!) snd lenco went from selling reconditioned/tested malibu returned warranty boxes  to manufacturing them new due to demand.  maybe malibu re purchased the boxes and is now forcing them back into supply chain since its software is proprietary

when you need your box i suggest you call her, takes my credit card and i have it in one  or two days 

if you choose to test your box in off season, kevin has a malibu and axis testing harness to evaluate your box, my original tested bad by Kevin

i had more than just actuator, box and harness, i had set speed changes occurring with each surf retract error, one of my spades in my set speed toggle switches was moving at the connection rivet to switch body, had to replace ignition panel it is part of

i am trouble free after a year snd can share my exp with the group, choose not to use it, your issue.  i have her direct line if you need it

LEARN BACKSIDE WHILE THIS THING DEVIL’s you this season,  my wife perfected hers with that year of practice !!!

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granddaddy55
On 7/13/2021 at 11:20 AM, rogermulligan said:

Great feedback!  thanks for taking the time,  I am hoping that our discussions help others out there so we can all spend more time on the water.

I Talked to a Lenco Tech yesterday (Kevin was away on vacation) -  he was adamant that it was most likely the actuator even with a bit of corrosion on the pins.  He said that the water test puts a heavy load on the actuator via the open paddle and thus more current draw (and a failing actuator will have to work harder to open and close) and that it explains why it works on land and fails on the water.

To try and test the theory that it was the actuator,  last night, I swapped the cabling of the left and right gates to the harness pigtail connectors (thus right became left and vise versa).  The thought being that if it is the actuator,  that the problematic gate would remain where it was (starboard).   As Murphy would have it,  I had zero problems last night!  the gates both worked without problems.  I switched the cabling back a forth a few times to try to get something to fail.  No luck.  Maybe switching them caused some sort of reset,  or the act of plugging them in and out temporarily cleaned away some corrosion, or the gate is only just on the verge of failing and had a good night....

At this point,  I am going to purchase a new actuator and keep it with me in case of a future failure (likely) - a small price to pay to help ensure our up coming vacation isn't a bust.  I am also going to leave a jumper cable wired to the battery ready to connect directy to the gate connector if I need to retract it on the water. 

The tech I talked to said that lenco does not sell parts... yet,  granddaddy55 says that Ashley caneva can help? She is apparently in the parts department,  will she sell parts?

Does https://www.themalibucrew.com/index.php?/profile/35191-coop/   @COOP have a way of obtaining a rebuild box and/or harness?

Thanks again for all of the great feedback. Roger

 

 

 

my switching plugs yielded no dividends either !!!!!!

it did one time, when we put new box on when actuator not working at all on either side in driveway,  switched and worked both worked(woke system up?!?!) switched back and both worked, failed water test next time out in troubling side

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granddaddy55
30 minutes ago, Tomd2013 said:

To be honest, this topic is really frustrating. The number of things it could be and the challenge of DYI makes this really hard on the less than technically inclined.  Ie, I’m going to have to trailer my boat 90 miles and not have it for 2 weeks to get it fixed. 

i am the least technically inclined on the site, it was too important to not fix and it drove me.  never missed a weekend on water and surfed goofy backside regular and toe side regular , needed the practice on both 

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granddaddy55
43 minutes ago, Tomd2013 said:

To be honest, this topic is really frustrating. The number of things it could be and the challenge of DYI makes this really hard on the less than technically inclined.  Ie, I’m going to have to trailer my boat 90 miles and not have it for 2 weeks to get it fixed. 

cheaper to replace parts than visit to dealer! and your still boating!!!

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1 hour ago, granddaddy55 said:

ok, Ashley and Kevin have been extremely helpful.  they supplied me with everything except my first replacement box free of charge because of mis diagnosis on the actuator readings from clamp meter (saying it was good) when it was bad all along even though it jumped.  they even sent me a second box just in case and Ashley def tracked me down to return it!!!!! after i didn't need it.  

Malibu isn't stocking that box anymore (may be now though!) snd lenco went from selling reconditioned/tested malibu returned warranty boxes  to manufacturing them new due to demand.  maybe malibu re purchased the boxes and is now forcing them back into supply chain since its software is proprietary

when you need your box i suggest you call her, takes my credit card and i have it in one  or two days 

if you choose to test your box in off season, kevin has a malibu and axis testing harness to evaluate your box, my original tested bad by Kevin

i had more than just actuator, box and harness, i had set speed changes occurring with each surf retract error, one of my spades in my set speed toggle switches was moving at the connection rivet to switch body, had to replace ignition panel it is part of

i am trouble free after a year snd can share my exp with the group, choose not to use it, your issue.  i have her direct line if you need it

LEARN BACKSIDE WHILE THIS THING DEVIL’s you this season,  my wife perfected hers with that year of practice !!!

I’ll take those numbers if you don’t mind.  

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granddaddy55

Ashley Caneva

Customer Service Leader

Domestic & International Distribution Sales Support

772.288.2662  (x2559)

772.291.2559 Direct 

[email protected]

 

 

Kevin Brostek

Project Manager/AE 

 

772-291-2596 direct

[email protected]

i have his cell but ill hold that back for now, he is fastest with email

 

Edited by granddaddy55
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rogermulligan

I Just replaced my actuator on the problem side after it stopped failing on the water - I had swapped the connectors as said above without any further failures but,  being a bit pragmatic and an electronics engineer,  I decided it was just a matter of time until it failed again.  As suspected, when I pulled the actuator off,  I found out by moving it around that it was indeed full of water.  I  even took a video of this part - I got 25ml of very murky/rusty water out of this.  the inside of the actuator looked terrible.  I am still shocked that the actuator actually worked at all with the way it looks.  To me this is a design error for these models/years... they should never take on water,  however after 7 years,  it will not be under warranty.

My recommendation to anyone with these years of Malibu/Axis,  is to purchase a new actuator as an insurance policy -  yes it is a bit pricy,  around $400 but if you treasure your vacation like I do,  you don't want it wrecked because you didn't have a new actuator in your back pocket. The replacement is actually quite simple and takes a bit more than an hour. 

If you are "simply" getting Max current draw errors and the gate is not retracting properly or fully all of the time,  there is a good chance it is the actuator.  You could try swapping the connectors at the transom to see if the error stays with the problematic actuator (but give it a few days of use before determining your conclusion) - mine did not fail again and I did not have the time to wait for days to see if it would happen,  I have a 2 week lake vacation planned and i want it working!

The other thing a person can do fairly easily when the boat is out of the water is to remove the actuator from the gate and the boat so that it is loose at the back of the boat (without removing the cable going through the transom) and move the actuator around to listen for water within.  In my case,  I was able to hear the water sloshing around and then knew that I had to continue with a full replacement.

If your gate is doing stranger things than causing the over current error and the retract/extend problem,  such as loosing sync,  extending when it shouldn't or simply "loosing it's mind" then you may have bigger problems, like a faulty control box.

I don't know if attaching the link to my movie in the cloud will work,  but I will copy the link here if anyone wants to see it: (128MB)

https://www.icloud.com/attachment/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fcvws.icloud-content.com%2FB%2FAcVQRtNEO0lTKXbgt47ASdZWw4VWAcZOV0qxPyIdM1bMlOc4EasS0qZa%2F%24{f}%3Fo%3DAlCy7SfuJW0T9rdjNzAEsP19uKgdIaMwbNamj1p1rsVa%26v%3D1%26x%3D3%26a%3DCAogiR4WUNEsstUpU1Rp90bwsDf3GAned9JT_v26ggYT0VYSeBCS_q_3rC8Yko6ry7YvIgEAKgkC6AMA_277bmhSBFbDhVZaBBLSplpqJl4KlQX4z2Ca2sVsnhSUlPEWMbl09H6uMzPeDfHm8fCs9bzEG84HciYFRzrGEyZ4PRpNAdV4oqTHoEMW1vI994xi0V_2vx2fySpqGzQyAQ%26e%3D1629561210%26fl%3D%26r%3D0FFBA900-37C8-402B-857F-3BB870D81504-1%26k%3D%24{uk}%26ckc%3Dcom.apple.largeattachment%26ckz%3DE1FAD97B-1BFB-4C8E-A2CE-1C312B69C984%26p%3D104%26s%3DKblReR_Y9jVBIeeAw7gmLp8yQlg&uk=tPsAEStcEsqj7aBI4cOzdQ&f=IMG_1227.MOV&sz=135030253

 

Sincerely,  Roger. 

 

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