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T23 steering


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I have a t23. When surfing steering is difficult.  Is that common?  I drove a mastercraft and it was much easier  

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Is it pulling while surfing?

If so does your rudder have an adjustment tab?  May need to be trimmed up so it doesn’t pull so much. Our 2019 a22 pulled hard initially, but our dealer adjusted the rudder tab and it was much better but still had to fight the wheel a bit.

Our a24 tracks straight with the larger rudder. No pulling against the wheel. 

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It’s just real tight and pulls against you a little while surf gate is out.  When the gate first opens, and absolute fight to keep it on track 

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16 hours ago, Msudogs93 said:

It’s just real tight and pulls against you a little while surf gate is out.  When the gate first opens, and absolute fight to keep it on track 

if you list the boat heavily bow and stern and it doesn't get much better your rudder or cable need adjustment or fixing 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Its the result of the surfgate. You should notice that its (more) difficult to steer in the direction that the surfer is on.  This is because the gate is acting like an anchor on the opposite side.  What you are experiencing when the gate deploys is common also.  Think about the mechanics of whats actually happening and it makes perfect sense.  I converted to hydraulic steering at the beginning of this season.  Even with hydro, its still resistant to turning into the surf direction.  I can now turn into the surf side alot easier, but the resistance is still there. 

The reason the MC drives different is because they use tabs instead of gates.  The tabs (simplistically) list (roll) the boat to one side or the other.

Getting the nose down will help as well.  I run a light crew. 750 lb PNP in the rear.  My bow has a Fatsac under the cushion.  I also put a Wakemaker triangle sac on top of the cushion and fill it with a Tsunami pump.  In total, its an easy 700lbs on the bow. 

 

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All of what you just said made perfect sense. You described my issue and I see what you are saying about the MC.  Thank you 

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  • 1 year later...
On 7/5/2021 at 9:41 PM, Dsalyers said:

If so does your rudder have an adjustment tab?  May need to be trimmed up so it doesn’t pull so much. Our 2019 a22 pulled hard initially, but our dealer adjusted the rudder tab and it was much better but still had to fight the wheel a bit.

Bumping an old topic and appreciate any help....my '23 T250 pulls hard to the right at all times, evident when all ballasts empty and cruising on plane.   If you let go, it snaps to the right.  Get into a left turn/bank, and same thing: let go of wheel and it snaps to the right.   Boat just had 10 hour service and the steering cable recall issue addressed, but dealer said there was no adjustment on the rudder and just a byproduct of 17" prop torque.  My own searching revealed this rudder adjustment tab on older Malibu and Axis boats, but dealer says it's not on my T250.  What years/engines/boats have this feature?   

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dizzy, sounds like your rudder is off, my boat tracks straight if i take my hands off the wheel, half of my driving is hands off

Dealer should do some more due diligence

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2 hours ago, Maas said:

dizzy, sounds like your rudder is off, my boat tracks straight if i take my hands off the wheel, half of my driving is hands off

Dealer should do some more due diligence

Yeah, that's my thought too.    When the service department says there is nothing they can do and it's the results of "that big prop torque and rudder," what else can you do?  That's why I'm asking what years had/didn't have the adjustable rudder tab.    I pulled the boat out after dark last night so haven't had a chance to look at it, but the service department did the steering cable recall, and "looked" at the steering and said there was no adjustment and nothing wrong with it.   Frustrating....

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If no adjustment possible, rudder could be filed/ground to correct the problem. Back before adjustable tabs, that was the common way to fine tune a ski tug for slalom course use.

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16 hours ago, Maas said:

are there 10 fat people sitting on the right side?  lol

when you're driving , it must take force on the wheel to track straight?

No fatties on board.   :lol:  Yes, it's constant (and I'm getting used to it but still annoying and not "right" from my engineering perspective).   I usually have my knee wedged against the steering wheel to hold steady.   If you let go, it snaps to the right.   I looked yesterday and don't see any adjustment from underneath the transom or looking down behind the engine.   The rudder can be turned by hand with reasonable effort, so not sure what else there is.   

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Squeaky wheel gets the grease… if your dealer won’t help start climbing the ladder at the dealership and then start calling Malibu. With how much these boats cost they should be calling you everyday trying to find a solution, if they aren’t doing that then I would be calling them EVERYDAY until there is a solution. 
 

our new A24 with 17” prop and M6 tracks perfectly straight with hands off the wheel….

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8 minutes ago, CDAWake said:

Squeaky wheel gets the grease… if your dealer won’t help start climbing the ladder at the dealership and then start calling Malibu. With how much these boats cost they should be calling you everyday trying to find a solution, if they aren’t doing that then I would be calling them EVERYDAY until there is a solution. 
 

our new A24 with 17” prop and M6 tracks perfectly straight with hands off the wheel….

I hear you...was trying to do my own investigation/research before I become that annoying customer.    Not that I mind being that annoying customer,  I am very hands on and a mechanical engineer so I just usually try to do all I can myself before going down that path.   Stay tuned....

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On 6/8/2023 at 8:52 AM, dizzygti said:

No fatties on board.   :lol:  Yes, it's constant (and I'm getting used to it but still annoying and not "right" from my engineering perspective).   I usually have my knee wedged against the steering wheel to hold steady.   If you let go, it snaps to the right.   I looked yesterday and don't see any adjustment from underneath the transom or looking down behind the engine.   The rudder can be turned by hand with reasonable effort, so not sure what else there is.   

That's ridiculous, i'd be pissed, there is something wrong for sure, my boat tracks straight all the time, with no effort on the wheel, whether were surfing or not, this is a safety issue, get your dealer to do more investigations, else call malibu customer service (they're great and awesome and always ready to help)

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21 minutes ago, Maas said:

That's ridiculous, i'd be pissed, there is something wrong for sure, my boat tracks straight all the time, with no effort on the wheel, whether were surfing or not, this is a safety issue, get your dealer to do more investigations, else call malibu customer service (they're great and awesome and always ready to help)

This is my first boat so it's good to know there is cross support between the brands.   It's late on Friday, so I'll reach out to my dealer again on Monday after a weekend on the water and then on to Malibu if needed.   Appreciate the advice.  :cheers:

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34 minutes ago, Maas said:

else call malibu customer service (they're great and awesome and always ready to help)

Dropped them a note through the auto contact us form, so we'll see what they say.   

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1 hour ago, dizzygti said:

Dropped them a note through the auto contact us form, so we'll see what they say.   

Got a surprisingly fast response late on a Friday.

"The first couple of things I would suggest that the dealer take a look at is the prop size and the rudder size that’s on this boat.  If the rudder is one that is built with what we call a “Window” in it, the rudder itself may just need to be tuned so that there is not so much of a starboard pull to the boat.  Most of the time its going to be more of a rudder tuning issue than anything but those would be the areas I would suggest checking first right off the bat."
 

Does this make any sense to anyone?  There are no cutouts or "windows" on my rudder.   The boat has the rudder and prop (17x15.5 1778) that it was built with.   

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6 hours ago, smileysteve said:

Bakes has this rudder labeled 2005-2016. You'll see the inset "trim tab" that can be adjusted with an Allen wrench.

https://images.app.goo.gl/NmCuaMtPJgkTbQy38

Wow, interesting concept never seen that before.   Guessing it's dimensionally wrong for a 17" or larger prop but will investigate. Thanks! 

Edited by dizzygti
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On 6/9/2023 at 3:38 PM, dizzygti said:

Got a surprisingly fast response late on a Friday.

"The first couple of things I would suggest that the dealer take a look at is the prop size and the rudder size that’s on this boat.  If the rudder is one that is built with what we call a “Window” in it, the rudder itself may just need to be tuned so that there is not so much of a starboard pull to the boat.  Most of the time its going to be more of a rudder tuning issue than anything but those would be the areas I would suggest checking first right off the bat."
 

Does this make any sense to anyone?  There are no cutouts or "windows" on my rudder.   The boat has the rudder and prop (17x15.5 1778) that it was built with.   

Malibu/Axis factory direct customer service is amazing, they're a fantastic group to deal with, they always respond to me in hours!

Get your dealer to chat with malibu/axis or vice versa, get this fixed and get malibu/axis to help you if your dealer wont' find a solution

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18 hours ago, Maas said:

Malibu/Axis factory direct customer service is amazing, they're a fantastic group to deal with, they always respond to me in hours!

Get your dealer to chat with malibu/axis or vice versa, get this fixed and get malibu/axis to help you if your dealer wont' find a solution

Yeah, I filmed the steering response over the weekend and sent it to them.   They've already responded and want me to work with the dealer/service center.   I will reach out to them to schedule a time to take the boat in shortly, but here's the video.   https://youtu.be/17vScNHPYlg

 

Customer service said the dealer may have to "tune" the rudder.   This sounds like it's going to cost me a weekend of boat time....

 

 

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Tuning a rudder is an old school steering torque technique involving grinding one side of the trailing edge of the rudder.  Back in the day it was used to increase steering pull, but can also be used to reduce pull.  The best advice is to never remove your hand from the steering wheel when the boat is underway, regardless of the amount of steering torque.

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48 minutes ago, csleaver said:

Tuning a rudder is an old school steering torque technique involving grinding one side of the trailing edge of the rudder.  Back in the day it was used to increase steering pull, but can also be used to reduce pull.  The best advice is to never remove your hand from the steering wheel when the boat is underway, regardless of the amount of steering torque.

Yes, it seems very old school and also hard to believe the only way to dial out steering pull.   The point of all this discussion and the video wasn't to be able to let go of the steering wheel while underway.   The point was to show the amount of pull on my boat and compare to other boats to know if this normal or unacceptable.    

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