Cracked hull after storage

[Spauls]

12 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

The vertical crack means it probably was a point impact.  Wanna bet the crack matches the blocks on which it was"sitting"? Anyway, yeah - let your insurance fix it (?) and they will subrogate the claim against the marina.  Your insurance will get a marine surveyor - there are lots in your area.  

That’s what I’m hoping.... last Time I spoke to insurance they said they have to have an insured “peril” so the marina has to say what happened I.e they dropped it on the blocks too hard.

however I spoke with marina all weekend and they are not admitting any fault and will not give a reason for crack.

so I’ll call my insurance again tomorrow and I’m hoping they will start to fight for me and take over 

 

 

[Spauls]

39 minutes ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

The only other thing I can think of is if that area had become water logged and soft. The weight of the boat could have caused that? I feel that’s a stretch of a thought though... either way that’s an insurance claim.

Ya, I believe it’s all fiberglass construction, my understanding is fiberglass can’t rot or become water logged? Someone said after 95” malibu stopped using wood ?

[Eagleboy99]

3 minutes ago, Spauls said:

That’s what I’m hoping.... last Time I spoke to insurance they said they have to have an insured “peril” so the marina has to say what happened I.e they dropped it on the blocks too hard.

however I spoke with marina all weekend and they are not admitting any fault and will not give a reason for crack.

so I’ll call my insurance again tomorrow and I’m hoping they will start to fight for me and take over 

 

 

Who are you using for insurance?  Some underwriters totally blow.  Hopefully not one of them.  As for the proximate cause, it should not matter; I mean it might very well have been Thor sneaking in over the winter whacking it with his Mjölnir.   Seriously - it could have been vandalism for all you know.

As for the marina, well, that is not a place to go back to in the future.  One way or another they are gonna lose this one. I am betting this is a very costly repair.

[Eagleboy99]

8 minutes ago, Spauls said:

Ya, I believe it’s all fiberglass construction, my understanding is fiberglass can’t rot or become water logged? Someone said after 95” malibu stopped using wood ?

Yes, all glass, but if the fiberglass is not fully 'wetted out' (ie. resin all the way through the mesh), it's possible for water to soak into the voids and freeze.  But looking at that picture...  uh... no.  Notice that the glass is pushed INWARD.

Edited May 24, 2021 by Eagleboy99
Answering my own question...

[Eagleboy99]

http://www.pcmarinesurveys.com/Every Marine Surveyor In Ontario.htm - you should be able to find one here who can  give you a quick assessment.  I can ask my BIL, too - he's a judge in them there parts and a big boat guy.   

[Spauls]

7 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

Who are you using for insurance?  Some underwriters totally blow.  Hopefully not one of them.  As for the proximate cause, it should not matter; I mean it might very well have been Thor sneaking in over the winter whacking it with his Mjölnir.   Seriously - it could have been vandalism for all you know.

As for the marina, well, that is not a place to go back to in the future.  One way or another they are gonna lose this one. I am betting this is a very costly repair.

Thanks, I have insurance broker, and Lloyd’s is the under writer , so I’m hoping they’ll do the investigating for me, find out tomorrow.

Marina says they can fix it, so clearly they want insurance to pay and they make more Money, reputable large marina tho in Muskoka, they been in business long time and store a lot of Malibu’s etc.. and have never had this happen.. so new territory for everyone.

[Spauls]

10 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

Yes, all glass, but if the fiberglass is not fully 'wetted out' (ie. resin all the way through the mesh), it's possible for water to soak into the voids and freeze.  But looking at that picture...  uh... no.  Notice that the glass is pushed INWARD.

Ya that’s what I’ve had couple people tell me, freezing isn’t covered under insurance, but the damage is right under the blocks, so it’s clearly caused by blocks or the forklift I believe

[Eagleboy99]

5 minutes ago, Spauls said:

and have never had this happen

"Stuff" happens all the time and it is always a first.  Somewhere there are pictures of a boat that  fell off the  lift when it was being racked a couple stories up.  Was in WA IIRC.  Also, that happened in Kelowna, too.

I'm kinda surprised that the marina wants to fix it while denying liability.  Not sure I'd trust them.

[ahopkins22LSV]

41 minutes ago, Spauls said:

Ya, I believe it’s all fiberglass construction, my understanding is fiberglass can’t rot or become water logged? Someone said after 95” malibu stopped using wood ?

Eh, it’s not wood but it can definitely get water logged. Larger boats go through a marine survey that checks the hulls for water logged areas. Granted these boats sit in the water all season but I know first hand of friends boats going through major hull work because of this. Might be worth getting a marine survey done, as I think the repair is more complicated if that’s the case.

[Spauls]

15 minutes ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

Eh, it’s not wood but it can definitely get water logged. Larger boats go through a marine survey that checks the hulls for water logged areas. Granted these boats sit in the water all season but I know first hand of friends boats going through major hull work because of this. Might be worth getting a marine survey done, as I think the repair is more complicated if that’s the case.

Well I’m hoping the insurance will do the marine survey, if they don’t then I will for sure. I guess the question if it was water logged and “soft” and it cracked while on the blocks , will insurance cover? Now that’s not something I can say happened until a surveyor came out

[Eagleboy99]

Just now, Spauls said:

Well I’m hoping the insurance will do the marine survey, if they don’t then I will for sure. I guess the question if it was water logged and “soft” and it cracked while on the blocks , will insurance cover? Now that’s not something I can say happened until a surveyor came out

are you the first owner or did you transfer the lifetime hull warranty?

[Spauls]

39 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

"Stuff" happens all the time and it is always a first.  Somewhere there are pictures of a boat that  fell off the  lift when it was being racked a couple stories up.  Was in WA IIRC.  Also, that happened in Kelowna, too.

I'm kinda surprised that the marina wants to fix it while denying liability.  Not sure I'd trust them.

I know, it’s difficult , I don’t have a trailer so as of now I have to.. they are a large marina for lake Muskoka/Rousseau etc and store many boats far more expensive then mine... and I don’t want to take possession of boat until it’s fixed, I don’t accept it in current state.  They sound confident they can fix it, but can’t give reason it happened, odd yes, but I’ll just go through process for now , will post updates as I get them

[Spauls]

4 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

are you the first owner or did you transfer the lifetime hull warranty?

I am the second owner, bought the boat in 2016 from this marina who also stores it. No idea about the warranty, didn’t know there was a lifetime warranty on hull?

[Eagleboy99]

6 minutes ago, Spauls said:

I am the second owner, bought the boat in 2016 from this marina who also stores it. No idea about the warranty, didn’t know there was a lifetime warranty on hull?

I'm surprised they did not try to sell it to you.  First and second owners are covered.

[Spauls]

4 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

I'm surprised they did not try to sell it to you.  First and second owners are covered.

Not sure if this would have been covered, but ya, bought it at the boat show in Toronto, never mentioned any warranty

[ahopkins22LSV]

23 minutes ago, Spauls said:

Well I’m hoping the insurance will do the marine survey, if they don’t then I will for sure. I guess the question if it was water logged and “soft” and it cracked while on the blocks , will insurance cover? Now that’s not something I can say happened until a surveyor came out

I don’t see why they wouldn’t. Just depends on what your policy says I guess. 

[Eagleboy99]

@OP - Check your policy to see if you are covered for a rental while yours is being repaired.

[Spauls]

4 minutes ago, ahopkinsVTX said:

I don’t see why they wouldn’t. Just depends on what your policy says I guess. 

Yea my policy only says what’s not covered.

Only relevant line in policy says 

we do not cover :

c) wear and tear, deterioration, inherent defect, mechanical breakdown, or faulty manufacture.

 

now if insurance surveyor says he thinks it is water logged, but the blocks still ultimately caused the puncture and cracked. So many questions.

Will just keep on pushing and hope it’s covered.

[Spauls]

3 minutes ago, Eagleboy99 said:

@OP - Check your policy to see if you are covered for a rental while yours is being repaired.

Says rental up to $150 .... not sure if that’s per day, would have to be to get any boat. Of course I have boat access cottage too, so it’s nice having more then 1 as back up

[Eagleboy99]

19 minutes ago, Spauls said:

Says rental up to $150 .... not sure if that’s per day, would have to be to get any boat.

That should get you a two seat kayak in the Muskokas.

[justgary]

The scuff marks above the split (it is *not* a "crack") are consistent with one or more pieces of stacked lumber suddenly slipping out from under the boat and letting it drop.  Check the other boats in their yard to see if they use one large piece or several stacked pieces to rest boats on.  They caused this, no question.  It should be their insurance paying for the repair.

It could have happened as they put a boat next to it when somebody bumped it, or it could have happened in the middle of the night due to wind or ice buildup in the boards.  The sad part is that nobody noticed it until you came to pick it up.  They could have had a repair under way a long time ago.

Have your surveyor inspect the running gear also.  The prop, shaft, and strut may all be bent, and possibly the fins.  If so, that's pretty much proof that it fell.  Remind them that they took the boat from the water; it was not sinking and the running gear all worked properly.  They need to make you whole, including a loaner boat while they get yours fixed.

[Spauls]

12 hours ago, justgary said:

The scuff marks above the split (it is *not* a "crack") are consistent with one or more pieces of stacked lumber suddenly slipping out from under the boat and letting it drop.  Check the other boats in their yard to see if they use one large piece or several stacked pieces to rest boats on.  They caused this, no question.  It should be their insurance paying for the repair.

It could have happened as they put a boat next to it when somebody bumped it, or it could have happened in the middle of the night due to wind or ice buildup in the boards.  The sad part is that nobody noticed it until you came to pick it up.  They could have had a repair under way a long time ago.

Have your surveyor inspect the running gear also.  The prop, shaft, and strut may all be bent, and possibly the fins.  If so, that's pretty much proof that it fell.  Remind them that they took the boat from the water; it was not sinking and the running gear all worked properly.  They need to make you whole, including a loaner boat while they get yours fixed.

I appreciate the analysis, thanks. It’s tough timing because I can’t make it to marina right away to inspect myself. I just spoke with my insurance adjuster today, he is going this week and he will try to blame marina, but said proving Negligence is very difficult, and unless marina admits to something , then it’ll have to incidental and under my insurance.

Marina has told me should be approx a 2 week repair, and once they see how much they’ll get to repair it, they’ll try to help me with a rental and my storage Bill, however they haven’t guaranteed anything yet just more of a let’s see what insurance says. They just keep insisting that they did nothing wrong. And not knowing enough about blocking and hull damage makes it difficult to ask the right questions.

 

 

[RyanB]

On 5/24/2021 at 10:57 AM, Spauls said:

I guess the question if it was water logged and “soft” and it cracked while on the blocks , will insurance cover?

Your answer is below.

On 5/24/2021 at 11:29 AM, Spauls said:

we do not cover :

c) wear and tear, deterioration, inherent defect, mechanical breakdown, or faulty manufacture.

I'd be willing to bet that if the survey does find that the boat is water logged (I hope they don't), that would be defined as deterioration.

I'm a fishing boat guy too.  Lots of the newer Lunds have a problem with the transom where it rots, and neither Lund nor insurance will cover it.

[Eagleboy99]

12 minutes ago, RyanB said:

Lots of the newer Lunds have a problem with the transom where it rots

With wood transoms.

[Spauls]

8 hours ago, RyanB said:

Your answer is below.

I'd be willing to bet that if the survey does find that the boat is water logged (I hope they don't), that would be defined as deterioration.

I'm a fishing boat guy too.  Lots of the newer Lunds have a problem with the transom where it rots, and neither Lund nor insurance will cover it.

yea the Malibu is all fiberglass, no wood, and there is no record of the boat being "soft" or waterlogged, marina maintained it for life of the boat, and even if it was, if it was still dropped which caused the crack, should be covered. Just hope the adjuster agrees. After speaking on phone with adjuster I am feeling more confident it'll all be taken care of. Should find out within a week and I will post update on the outcome.

Appreciate all the replies and insights here, learning experience for sure.