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2021 Wedge Issues


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10 hours ago, wedge88 said:

 

If Malibu thinks it's a pinched wire, then they need to send another new harness and connect it across the floor of the boat as a quick test.  I see, maybe, 5 possible failure points in this chain.  It can't be that difficult.   The power wedge has been offered for 15+ years.   The order they are troubleshooting this seems crazy but I guess they're using the "probable culprit theory."  

I'm a technical person (building automation and communication controls) and I'd want to be connected to the system to see what's happening when the start button is hit.  The simple "drop wedge trigger/command/prompt/relay" has to coming somewhere.  If they think "dead or open short" it has to be at the main controls or tied into the start button because I don't believe it's simply happening with power to the dash but only on the key start.  (Forgive as I didn't read the entire thread)  They are trying individual pieces of new components but why not try all them now?  New control module, new sensors, new harness, new software and new assembly instead of old mixed in.  They could mock it up on a bench outside the boat.

Maybe fly @martinarcher up and I bet he has it figured out by lunch.

Guessing they've plopped on a data reader as its powered up to see the command sent. Hopefully when they reload code it is a known good version. 

Steve B.

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What puzzles me is that the wedge is not supposed to move if the boat is still.  So is the logic in the brain broken or is the signal that moves the wedge coming from somewhere other than the box that is supposed to send it.  Perhaps there is a voltage stability problem or some other input to the brain so confusing to the logic that it is signaling to move the wedge.  

I hope the wiring harness fixes the issue, I can see where a rubbed spot bringing two or more conductors together with a cross feed could cause the issue.  It will not surprise me if the problem ends up being something external to the wedge "system" that is so spoiling the electrical quality (some kind of digital overlay on what should be a straight DC line) or something is sending signals that the logic was never intended to see.

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Here’s today’s update!!  
 

As much as I’d like to report that my boat is fixed, it’s not.  The mew harness was connected today and the problem remains.

It’s sad to say, but I’ve lost confidence in Malibu at this point.  My dealer has done all they can and are bound by protocol with Malibu.  So I continue to wait for them to perform yet another continuity test as directed by Malibu, which they’ve already done to no avail.  I think the dealer is just as frustrated as I am.  They’ve invested lots of hours on the wedge issue and haven’t yet started to manage the other quality issues with gel coat, soft grip flooring, missing fastener covers, bad seams, and adhesive smeared on surfaces where there should be no adhesive, etc.  I’m at the point now where I just want them to build me a new boat, but do so properly this time.

Hopefully there’s some positive news in the coming days, but it’s tough to be optimistic given this experience.  I also hope that any of you out there waiting on an order don’t have to go through what I’m going through. It’s rather tiresome.

Edited by Slayer
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On 6/4/2021 at 5:04 PM, Slayer said:

Here’s today’s update!!  
 

As much as I’d like to report that my boat is fixed, it’s not.  The mew harness was connected today and the problem remains.

It’s sad to say, but I’ve lost confidence in Malibu at this point.  My dealer has done all they can and are bound by protocol with Malibu.  So I continue to wait for them to perform yet another continuity test as directed by Malibu, which they’ve already done to no avail.  I think the dealer is just as frustrated as I am.  They’ve invested lots of hours on the wedge issue and haven’t yet started to manage the other quality issues with gel coat, soft grip flooring, missing fastener covers, bad seams, and adhesive smeared on surfaces where there should be no adhesive, etc.  I’m at the point now where I just want them to build me a new boat, but do so properly this time.

Hopefully there’s some positive news in the coming days, but it’s tough to be optimistic given this experience.  I also hope that any of you out there waiting on an order don’t have to go through what I’m going through. It’s rather tiresome.

Honestly, their best chance of fixing it is to build a complete electrical system on the bench (as was mentioned before) and start swapping parts with your boat.  When the problem moves, they know the bad part.  If the problem never moves, they should seriously entertain your desire for a new boat.

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12 hours ago, justgary said:

Honestly, their best chance of fixing it is to build a complete electrical system on the bench (as was mentioned before) and start swapping parts with your boat.  When the problem moves, they know the bad part.  If the problem never moves, they should seriously entertain your desire for a new boat.

That’s exactly where we are right now.  Since the mew harness didn’t fix it, another round of continuity testing is happening.  Hopefully they can isolate the issue.  

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33 minutes ago, Slayer said:

That’s exactly where we are right now.  Since the mew harness didn’t fix it, another round of continuity testing is happening.  Hopefully they can isolate the issue.  

My primary issue with continuity testing is that somebody will just jam their test probe into the sockets and cause more trouble by bending the contacts.  It will buzz out just fine, but you will have trouble with bad connections later.  I would personally take a look after they are done to inspect for damage.  Done properly it will cause no issues.

Have they confirmed that the wedge is actually seeing a "go down" signal at power up, or if it is an analog or digital command?  If it were mine, I'd be in their knickers wanting to help them.  I would have an oscilloscope on the job before they could blink.  Somebody has to know how the system works and what is causing this.  If they don't have a person that knows, that person would be me after a few hours.

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16 minutes ago, justgary said:

My primary issue with continuity testing is that somebody will just jam their test probe into the sockets and cause more trouble by bending the contacts.  It will buzz out just fine, but you will have trouble with bad connections later.  I would personally take a look after they are done to inspect for damage.  Done properly it will cause no issues.

Have they confirmed that the wedge is actually seeing a "go down" signal at power up, or if it is an analog or digital command?  If it were mine, I'd be in their knickers wanting to help them.  I would have an oscilloscope on the job before they could blink.  Somebody has to know how the system works and what is causing this.  If they don't have a person that knows, that person would be me after a few hours.

I understand your point on the connectors.  I can only hope they're doing the second round of continuity testing correctly.  

 

In so far as the signal to deploy is concerned, the I don't know if the system is sending a signal to deploy.  There are some very strange things with this issue.  It is a digital command as I understand it.  When the boat is powered on, the screen shows the wedge in position #5.  When I was on the water, I was able to get the wedge into the stow position but the boat doesn't recognize that's where the wedge is.  If I engage the wedge using the various ways of doing so, then I'm able to see the position indicator change on the display.  If I push "go home" the wedge goes to stow but the boat sees it as position 5.  The same is true if I tell it to stow or use the up buttons on the sport dash......the boat sees it as being in position 5.  I think at power on the wedge deploys because the boat thinks it's supposed to be in position 5 yet when it deploys it goes all the way down.  The position indicator moves to reflect this.  

 

The wedge position indicator on the display has remained unchanged by virtue of replacing the control module and the wiring harness.  It still sees the position as #5.  Somehow, the system isn't reading the position sensors correctly.  These position sensors have also been replaced and sensor continuity has been validated.  

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@Slayer crossing my fingers for you buddy.  That 100% totally sucks, especially now that we're getting well into June.  Seems like at the very least your boat needs to go back to TN for evaluation.  Hoping Malibu and your dealer can get this taken care of pronto.

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14 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

@Slayer crossing my fingers for you buddy.  That 100% totally sucks, especially now that we're getting well into June.  Seems like at the very least your boat needs to go back to TN for evaluation.  Hoping Malibu and your dealer can get this taken care of pronto.

 

Thanks, it does indeed suck.

Go back for an evaluation???  Hell no....take it back and either build me a new one, or give me 100% of my money back.  We're a month into this.  It's absolutely ridiculous.  If it goes back to TN, I don't want it back.  Let them use it as a tool for better QA/QC.  Many examples of poor quality in this one for them to learn from.  Based on what I'm experiencing, I beginning to think they don't care about the quality.    

Honestly, they've replaced the wiring harness and still claim it's a pinched wire.  Both the dealer and me think that's a load of crap.  How could it be a pinched wire if they plugged in a new harness and the problem remains??  It makes absolutely no sense to me.  To make matters worse, the dealer tells me that even after replacement of the viper, the wedge control module, and the surf gate control module, the screen still shows the wedge in position 5 when it's stowed.  I asked Malibu to explain that and they keep repeating the pinched wire theory.  

Edited by Slayer
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If Viper has been replaced, I believe that is the brains of the boat.  What about the alignment of the position sensor?  They may have replaced all of that but what about if when it fires up, it reads as if it is in position 5 because of level, that is where it really is...?  I am not sure if that makes sense as I read it but what I am thinking in my head it does... but I suck at working and reading/writing a response :)

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oh I wasn't trying to make any comments on the economics of the transaction.  Just that it sounds like your dealer has done all that a dealer can reasonably be expected to do in this circumstance.  Seems unlikely that ongoing trial and error parts replacement by your dealer (even with Malibu's guidance) is going to get this figured out timely.  This is one that the MBUU mothership will need to fix.

Whether they buy your boat back in that process is a different story (and probably a non unreasonable outcome).  Does lemon law apply to boats in MI?  

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1 hour ago, bcoppess23 said:

If Viper has been replaced, I believe that is the brains of the boat.  What about the alignment of the position sensor?  They may have replaced all of that but what about if when it fires up, it reads as if it is in position 5 because of level, that is where it really is...?  I am not sure if that makes sense as I read it but what I am thinking in my head it does... but I suck at working and reading/writing a response :)

Prior to the wedge assembly being replaced, the wedge sensors were replaced.  The sensors are not serviceable, so they simply get replaced where there's a problem.  One would have to assume that the dealer has validated the position of the sensor, but as I see it, there appears to be only one way to put them in.  

1 hour ago, shawndoggy said:

oh I wasn't trying to make any comments on the economics of the transaction.  Just that it sounds like your dealer has done all that a dealer can reasonably be expected to do in this circumstance.  Seems unlikely that ongoing trial and error parts replacement by your dealer (even with Malibu's guidance) is going to get this figured out timely.  This is one that the MBUU mothership will need to fix.

Whether they buy your boat back in that process is a different story (and probably a non unreasonable outcome).  Does lemon law apply to boats in MI?  

Without a doubt, the dealer has done all they can do.  They've got tons of hours into this.  I actually feel really bad for the position that Malibu has them in.  I also know I'm not alone.  When I dropped it off nearly a month ago there was an unhappy Axis customer in there who after I told them to take care of all the mechanical & electrical gremlins and we'll deal with cosmetics later, he told them to do what I said.    

Yes, the lemon law applies to boats in MI.  Even if I do get this boat back, I'm not sure how confident I'll feel in taking it anywhere or using it anywhere other than the home lake where we know people if we have a problem.  It's just terrible that it took 3 weeks to light a fire under Malibu to stop piece-mealing troubleshooting process.

Another thing that I find problematic is that there's no boats.  Our dealer doesn't have a boat to loan me.  But they do have rental boats.  Do you think they offered one of those?  Nope.  Our local MC dealer has 3 boats that they ordered specifically for the purpose of demo.  Then they sell in the fall.  Our Malibu dealer.....no, they have nothing to demo.  They just sold everything they could.  

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1 hour ago, 23LSVOwner said:

Any updates?

I got a call from Malibu late yesterday afternoon that they think they've fixed the issue and have attributed it to a bad ground.  The dealer is supposed to be water testing it today.  I'll be following up this afternoon.  

What amazes me is how Malibu let the dealer go through and replace all the components they replaced without addressing something like the ground first.  Another odd thing to me is that apparently the surf gate and wedge grounds are not part of the harness that was used to test and see if the existing harness was bad.  Not only that, but the surf gate and wedge grounds go up to the helm.  Why they would not be grounded at the engine, or a ground bus near the stern.  Super crazy to me, but I'm no engineer.

I'll update this when I get confirmation that the thing works, which I have yet to receive. 

Edited by Slayer
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19 minutes ago, Slayer said:

I got a call from Malibu late yesterday afternoon that they think they've fixed the issue and have attributed it to a bad ground.  The dealer is supposed to be water testing it today.  I'll be following up this afternoon.  

 

It would sure make some sense....but,  why wouldn't they have tested ground at the exact same points the initial harness was grounded or while performing their continuity tests?   Oh well, hope this is your fix and you should rest easy once it's done. 

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1 minute ago, wedge88 said:

It would sure make some sense....but,  why wouldn't they have tested ground at the exact same points the initial harness was grounded or while performing their continuity tests?   Oh well, hope this is your fix and you should rest easy once it's done. 

I have the same question, among others.  From what I was told by both the dealer and Malibu is that the ground is independent of the harness.  That would explain why the new harness resulted in no improvement if that's true.  Nonetheless, your point is valid.  

I mentioned to both Malibu and my dealer that while horribly frustrating for all, they should use this as a learning experience and perhaps provide more timely troubleshooting.  

I do hope this is the fix and that we're done with the back and forth stuff.  I'm also fingers crossed that there are no other issues that pop up after I get the boat back.

 

I'll update when I have confirmation.  

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I keep coming back to this thread waiting to read something positive for you @Slayer. You are living my worst dream while I wait for my 2021 to still be built. I’ve said all along that I’ll happily wait with all the delays on my boat as long as I don’t have to deal with issues like your experiencing, my first concern is a boat of high quality. 

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Sounds the Loudon water test needs to be revised as follows:

Current policy

1. Recent hire to test performance at WOT

Additions to policy

2. Test Wedge deployment

3. Test Surfgate deployment

4. Test ballast fill/drain

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1 hour ago, Slayer said:

However, Malibu did acknowledge that they should not have allowed my boat to leave Loudon, TN in the condition in which it did.

I have no doubt that your boat could have used more QA at the factory.  In the case of a "bad ground" though, I would think that it is possible to have a "good ground" at the factory that loosens up during the 1,000 mile trip to your dealer.  In other words, it could have easily passed inspection and then failed later.

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13 hours ago, NWBU said:

Sounds the Loudon water test needs to be revised as follows:

Current policy

1. Recent hire to test performance at WOT

Additions to policy

2. Test Wedge deployment

3. Test Surfgate deployment

4. Test ballast fill/drain

5.  Check all hose connections

12 hours ago, justgary said:

I have no doubt that your boat could have used more QA at the factory.  In the case of a "bad ground" though, I would think that it is possible to have a "good ground" at the factory that loosens up during the 1,000 mile trip to your dealer.  In other words, it could have easily passed inspection and then failed later.

While I understand your point that things could happen in a 650 mile trip from the factory, how does this get past the dealer?  They water tested it.  That's kind of like the dealer telling me they never noted lose fasteners or hose clamps on the boat.  Their claim is that they've done everything correctly and some how in the 33 miles from the dealer to my house they all loosened up.  Doesn't make sense.

Edited by Slayer
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14 minutes ago, Slayer said:

While I understand your point that things could happen in a 650 mile trip from the factory, how does this get past the dealer?  They water tested it.  That's kind of like the dealer telling me they never noted lose fasteners or hose clamps on the boat.  Their claim is that they've done everything correctly and some how in the 33 miles from the dealer to my house they all loosened up.  Doesn't make sense.

You got me there.  I was merely hypothecating about the possibility that it was correct at the factory and passed their testing.  I do understand that hypothecation is just that, and you may never know the whole truth.  

The thing about a bad ground is that both power and signals are generally referenced to it, so it is worse than an bad power connection.  Funky things can happen when one is loose.  This is why I'm always harping that anybody with an older boat should start diagnosing problems by cleaning every connection they can find.

I really hope they nailed this down for you and that you can truly enjoy the boat now.

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