1996 Sunsetter running poorly when hot

[justgary]

What about the ECM thinks the engine is 195*F part?  Did you fix that?  Generally the ECM will add fuel for a cold engine, but if your temperature sender is wrong the engine may not run correctly.

You can test each cylinder for power loss by pulling spark plug wires one at a time.  I prefer to use insulated pliers (duct tape might do it) and pull the wires from the cap end rather than the plug end.  The reason is that the plug will generally fire if the wire is close enough, so that will help you not get the pudding shocked out of you.  The cap end will generally arc over to some other place or the plug wire before it jumps to you.  Keep one hand behind your back when you do this just so you know where it is.

Anyway, pull one wire at a time and see if the engine noticeably loses power or misses.  The cylinder with the rich injector should act different from the others (unless, of course, they all leak).

[mexicoke]

10 minutes ago, justgary said:

What about the ECM thinks the engine is 195*F part?

The ECM thinks the engine is 159f, dash gauge shows 160f when hot. When cold it was 71f. I don't think I have a temp sender issue. 

I might just pull all of the injectors and get them serviced. It's not that much money and I know at least one of them is leaking. Just wish it would have shown up when I had the fuel pressure gauge on there...

[justgary]

4 minutes ago, mexicoke said:

The ECM thinks the engine is 159f, dash gauge shows 160f when hot. When cold it was 71f. I don't think I have a temp sender issue. 

I might just pull all of the injectors and get them serviced. It's not that much money and I know at least one of them is leaking. Just wish it would have shown up when I had the fuel pressure gauge on there...

Sorry, I read 195*F...  Anyway, the ECM and the dash use different senders, and should agree within a few degrees at all times.

[mexicoke]

Bit of an update and an injector question. 

Last week I pulled the injectors and sent them off for service(Injector Repair LLC, out of NY, recommended by a friend). Got the call today, on the initial test the flow rates were all over the place and 2 were suspected of being bad electrically. Those two unfortunately never recovered after cleaning. 

The other 6 did recover, however, the flow rates couldn't be dialed in correctly. They also wouldn't run correctly on the test bench together as a group and had to be flow tested as individuals on a different bench. Got them to within 6% but still not recommended that I reuse them. The service man was pretty confident that these were remanufactured injectors at some point. 

So at this point I need at least 2 new injectors, Standard Motor Products FJ 164 or ACDelco 19244617 was suggested, but he was pretty sure the SMP injector is the OE for the ACD. 

But he seriously recommended me to replace all 8 injectors. I have no doubt in this as he doesn't sell injectors and cut his service cost as the injectors were non-recoverable. 

Seems like there's some precedence for replacing all 8 with newer Bosch injectors. Any advice would be welcome. 

[Woodski]

@mexicoke - reading through your thread, yep lots of knowledge on this forum as noted.  My experience with SMP parts is fair, I would lean to Bosch or AC Delco (in that order) ahead of SMP.  Just my 2 cents.  Note on dist cap, brass terminals are much preferred to aluminum ones, the alu ones corrode fast.

As for injectors and your analysis, guessing the spray pattern was poor and they didn’t leak enough to drop pressure when the pump was running.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Woodski

[mexicoke]

17 hours ago, Woodski said:

My experience with SMP parts is fair

Yea, mine too. I like to buy OEM parts and I usually stay away from SMP (and Dorman), but the injector shop recommended them and really seemed to know his stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if SMP was the OE for ACD on these, I wish I could see them side by side but none of the local parts stores have both in stock. They are made across town from me oddly enough. 

17 hours ago, Woodski said:

Note on dist cap, brass terminals are much preferred to aluminum ones, the alu ones corrode fast.

Yep, the old one I pulled out was Napa house brand and aluminum. I replaced it with a brass one. 

[mexicoke]

Finally got this resolved. 

I gave both Fuel Injector Connection and South Bay Fuel Injection a call to see what they recommended as a full set. FIC recommended a slightly modified Bosch 3 injector. South Bay recommended a Delphi set. Both were drop in replacements but the Bosch 3s are a newer design that has some advantages over the older Delphi. I ended up going with the Bosch from FIC. Great guys to work with too. 

Wife and I installed the new injectors today, took all of 10 minutes with 4 hands working. Just like they said, perfect fit. Checked for leaks with the pump primed, then started right up, zero issues. Ran it down the lake and got nice and hot. Let it sit for an hour while we had lunch, fired right up when hot. Something it absolutely would not do before. Zero stumble when hot at low speeds and idle. Tried it several more times over the afternoon, without hesitation fires right up. 

If anyone is interested, here's the flow sheet for the old injectors. 

 

Anyway, had a nice day back out on the water. $400 shipped was the cost on the new injectors. FIC did say they sometimes have refurbished sets, but were currently out of cores. He also did recommend buying new when it comes to boats regardless. If anyone needs new injectors I'd definitely recommend FIC. Injector Repair was also great to work with, unfortunately I just had bad injectors. 

 

 

[justgary]

What Bosch part number did you get?

[mexicoke]

11 hours ago, justgary said:

What Bosch part number did you get?

These are the injectors I purchased: https://fuelinjectorconnection.com/products/fic-24-lb-inmar-injector 

FIC gave me a discount and free shipping when I called, super great and knowledgeable guys. 

Unfortunately that doesn't show the Bosch part number. On Wednesday or Thursday we'll be back at the boat and I can take a few pictures and see if the P/N is on the injector. I seem to remember there being something, just didn't capture it.