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Boat Hours Incorrect Used Boat Purchase


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TC_2006_VLX

I recently pulled the trigger on a 2016 Malibu LSV from out of state. It was on consignment sale at the local Malibu dealer/being sold by the owner. I ended up purchasing it from them sight unseen and having it shipped 1100 miles back to the Midwest. When I purchase the boat the owner repeatedly told me the boat had 129 hours and made a point of saying so... well boat gets here last week and it actually has 240 hours. He had relying on the invoices from the dealer (which hour marked hadn't changed all year throughout multiple invoices) rather than actually verifying on the boat. I know shame on me for not getting an actual photo of the hours and taking his word and ad for gospel. To my question I would seek guidance from the group on... 129 vs. 240 is a pretty significant difference in hours especially in the north land where you are lucky to log 60 hours a year. What sort of dollar amount equates to a 111 hour discrepancy? 

I also try to get out of a boat prior to it getting to 400 hours so this drastically decreases the time that I would be owning the boat. 

There is also a significant gel coat damage that both the dealer and seller are denying even though it was picked up from the dealer that way.... so thats another great thing!

Edited by TC_2006_VLX
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5 minutes ago, TC_2006_VLX said:

I recently pulled the trigger on a 2016 Malibu LSV from out of state. It was on consignment sale at the local Malibu dealer/being sold by the owner. I ended up purchasing it from them sight unseen and having it shipped 1100 miles back to the Midwest. When I purchase the boat the owner repeatedly told me the boat had 129 hours and made a point of saying so... well boat gets here last week and it actually has 240 hours. He had relying on the invoices from the dealer (which hour marked hadn't changed all year throughout multiple invoices) rather than actually verifying on the boat. I know shame on me for not getting an actual photo of the hours and taking his word and ad for gospel. To my question I would seek guidance from the group on... 129 vs. 240 is a pretty significant difference in hours especially in the north land where you are lucky to log 60 hours a year. What sort of dollar amount equates to a 111 hour discrepancy? 

I also try to get out of a boat prior to it getting to 400 hours so this drastically decreases the time that I would be owning the boat. 

Unless the boat owner is feeling like throwing cash at you, I'd just enjoy your new boat and not waste a lot of time trying to get money from the seller.

A 5 year old boat with 240 hours is pretty normal low usage and a 5 year old boat with 129 hours on it has been sitting unused way too much ;)

In terms of the difference in price that the dealer/seller would have offered a 129 hour boat vs a 240 hour boat - I doubt it would have been $5 worth of difference.

Out of curiosity - what would you have multiple dealer invoices for over the course of 1 year?  That would be the part that might concern me.

Edited by oldjeep
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Hi TC_2006_VLX,

OldJeep is probably correct. That said, no harm is trying to make this right. One way to go is to talk with the seller and the dealer, they both profited on your purchase, about both the additional hours and the gel coat damage. Perhaps let the seller \ dealer choose which problem they want to address and agreeing to cover the problem they do not choose. So......

1) They cover the cost of the gel coat.

or

2) They compensate you for the additional hours. 

As for a value determination on hours, I would scrub inboards only and boattradder and locate similar boats or similar motors with the lower hours. Say you find 5 such boats. Average the cost between them and compare that cost to what you paid. That cost should be lower than what you paid so that would be the cost to the seller and dealer for option #2. 

Hope it all works out,

Chris

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I wouldn't be concerned with it either.  As far as hours go, I have a friend that put 300 on his boat in 2 season here in MI.  It's not much to consider 240 hours on a 2016.  I had more on my 2017 VLX when I sold it in January.  Fear not, I think you're ok.  

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@TC_2006_VLX depending on what state it came from, you may have some recourse for having received a boat that was not as described to you.  That said you would likely need to act fast to try to get any remedy, and there would still be no guarantee of anything changing.

Different people have different feeling about what gelcoat damage looks like as well, so your opinion may be different than the dealer where it cam e from as it was a consignment boat.

The hours would not concern me, and in the current boat market, they really don't matter at those levels.

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Put me in the camp that says you are owed money.  The dealer is a party to the contract by virtue of the consignment seller and to sell (I assume it was listed on the dealer's site with the specs incl. hrs.?) a boat with double the hours is tantamount to fraud on both sellers' parts.  I see this as no different than rolling back an odometer on a car.  Would you be happy to buy a car that showed up with double the miles?  I sure would not!

As for calculating a value, the idea of finding boats as suggested is but one way.  I would look at it this way: 2000 hrs on an engine is its practical lifetime and you  got a boat with 1/10th of its life gone at a price which should have been  1/20th.  That is a lot of money in my books - say 10% of the value youaid is owed to you.  Now if the dealer was closer they could make it up with free services, gear at cost, etc.  But 1100 miles is  ways to drive for an oil change.  I would go after both of them and frankly, the dealer has a lot more to lose (BBB, etc.)

The gel coat is a whole 'nother thing!  Which is why when I sell something of value and ship it, I take a zillion photos and send them to the buyer.  And insure the shipment with the shipper so that if there is damage from shipping UPS or whomever is on the hook, not me nor the buyer.  Good luck!

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So what if the seller/dealer said

(A) send it back we will cover all costs and give you all your money back or 

(B) Keep the boat as is and we will keep all your money. Your choice

In this market I would get that thing in the water and start enjoying it ASAP. be glad you have a boat at all. Chances are the seller/dealer can re-sell it for more than you paid for it and you would have to start over.

and looking back at shawndoggy's post I also agree with what he said.

  • Like 3
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13 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

Going after 10% of the value of an engine replacement (10k, being generous (assuming it’s not a supercharged engine), so $1k price swing) isn’t worth it at all. The dealer and the individual seller can absolutely say pound sand and there’s almost zero upside to a lawsuit with the low dollars involved.
 

take the $3k you’d spend on a lawyer, do any necessary repairs and maintenance, and forget the whole thing. 

You missed my point.  I mean 10% of the purchase price.  No lawsuit needed; easy enought to wreak havoc on the dealer legally. If the dealer who sold it is ethical, they will find an equitable solution.

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It’s not what dad used to say but “Caveat Emptor”. It may not always be possible to go in person but tmc is a great resource. I’ve looked at boats for people on here before. I can’t imagine buying a boat site unseen without at least getting the seller to agree on a third party inspection. 

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The hour thing, yeah they should have given you the correct hours. Id say just move on form that. Heck I put 150 hours on my 2020 23 MXZ last summer. The gelcoat is unacceptable to me. I would be contacting the dealer/owner and figuring something out. 

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2 hours ago, Eagleboy99 said:

Put me in the camp that says you are owed money.  The dealer is a party to the contract by virtue of the consignment seller and to sell (I assume it was listed on the dealer's site with the specs incl. hrs.?) a boat with double the hours is tantamount to fraud on both sellers' parts.  I see this as no different than rolling back an odometer on a car.  Would you be happy to buy a car that showed up with double the miles?  I sure would not!

As for calculating a value, the idea of finding boats as suggested is but one way.  I would look at it this way: 2000 hrs on an engine is its practical lifetime and you  got a boat with 1/10th of its life gone at a price which should have been  1/20th.  That is a lot of money in my books - say 10% of the value youaid is owed to you.  Now if the dealer was closer they could make it up with free services, gear at cost, etc.  But 1100 miles is  ways to drive for an oil change.  I would go after both of them and frankly, the dealer has a lot more to lose (BBB, etc.)

The gel coat is a whole 'nother thing!  Which is why when I sell something of value and ship it, I take a zillion photos and send them to the buyer.  And insure the shipment with the shipper so that if there is damage from shipping UPS or whomever is on the hook, not me nor the buyer.  Good luck!

Dad would say that you may have trouble with two of the elements required to prove fraud. 

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Define "significant gel coat damage".  That should have been disclosed.  As far as the hours I would not worry about that much if they would just fix the gel coat depending on the significance of the damage.  The hours sound like honest mistake by the owner and the dealer could have looked at and told you the actual.  That one IMHO is on you for trusting people.  I have been burned and unfortunately have learned the hard lessons before on buying a car sight unseen(received it with 5k of hail damage and the shipper and Mercedes dealership blammed each other). Luckily the shipper had pics upon load.  Never again.  It is worth the cost and hassle of an airline ticket on such a big purchase.  The gel problem could have happened in shipping.  Usually the person doing the shipping takes very detailed pictures for this very reason.  Hopefully they have that documented.  Post pictures of the damage and keep us posted.

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TC_2006_VLX

There are actually three strikes on this purchase which has my blood boiling"

1. Hours.. he is stating that the dealer didnt update the service invoices which he was using to reflect the hours. That said he also made a point of stating how long the hours were... so when its your big selling point and goes bust not good.

2. Gelcoat- both the dealer and the private party are pointing fingers at one another on this, but either way I dont feel I should be the one holding the short stick.

3. Promised it was in fantastic shape and not a salty... guess what its a "brackish" boat. So the interior is mint but everything has corrosion on it. Not to mention the prop is all dinged up. The primary screen wasnt working upon delivery, but after a little trouble shooting was able to get it fixed.

 Please see the attached photos.

Took your input and took the boat out last night only to roach a impeller and have to float back to the docks... i think this thing is cursed! 

I bought a 2013 MXZ 20 last year sight unseen and i had a 100% opposite experience with it being even better than promised.

64088292784__8BC44020-F6C3-4212-BC23-7996CE37F877.JPEG

IMG_4182.JPEG

IMG_4185.JPEG

IMG_4186.JPEG

IMG_4190.JPEG

IMG_4197.JPEG

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Well, that sucks - especially the brackish water thing.  The inside of that boat looks filthy - was it shipped uncovered?

As an aside - what color is that trailer?  Doesn't appear to match the boat?

Edited by oldjeep
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7 minutes ago, TC_2006_VLX said:

3. Promised it was in fantastic shape and not a salty... guess what its a "brackish" boat. So the interior is mint but everything has corrosion on it. 

The best solution I think you could possibly hope to get is to "hit undo," and send the boat back to the dealer you bought it from, at the dealer's expense, in exchange for a refund of your purchase price.  

Did you sign anything like a purchase contract or bill of sale that specifies that you are buying "as-is where-is," or "as-is, with all faults"?  Did the dealer make written reps as to condition?  Who did you cut the check to, the dealer or the prior owner?

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Sorry you didn't get what you expected.

My thoughts:  240 hours is still low hours.  Selling before it reaches 400 is your choice, but the boat still has A LOT of life left after that mark.

For the gel coat damage, yeah that is something I would have wanted disclosed.  But I also wouldn't call that "significant" damage.  Yes I'd want it fixed.  Yes I would try to negotiate price based on it (although I don't think you would get much if anything in current market).  No, I wouldn't rule a boat out because of that damage.  I'm sure there are individuals here that could fix that very easily.  If that isn't you (and it wouldn't be me) I'd get an estimate for repair from your local dealer, or whoever they recommend, and use that for negotiation.  

To me, that amount of damage is the perfect example of why it is best to go and look at a boat in person before buying it.  Everyone has a different opinion of what "great condition" means.  And I honestly believe that some people would think that still qualifies.

Being a salty boat is a completely different beast.  If that is indeed the case, I'd be doing what I could to send it back.  Being in a land locked state, no one wants one of those here.

Good luck with your journey on this one.  I'd love to hear how it turns out.

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Brackish = dealbreaker to me.  If that was not disclosed to you then I would certainly send it back.  Make them pay for shipping each way and hit the reset button.  I would never buy a brackish or salt water boat.  My blood would be boiling as well.  Maybe you got a good deal on it though?  You have not disclosed the price so maybe they did not tell you but put these items into the asking price.  Around here(TX) those boats are going from 85K to 100K right now.

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1 minute ago, Stevo said:

Or clean it up and post it up for sale out west with a 20% mark up.

That's a great recommendation.  Likely what I would do.  

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BlindSquirrel

Way too many things disclosed, apparently, after the fact to be a simple oversight. I'd be sending it back. The easy way.... them pay freight and you get your money back, or the hard way by getting a lawyer involved. I've not done it, but heard for like $50 you can get a firm to send a letter on company letter head as a warning shot to help out.

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