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Recovering the F-150 Thread


justgary

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I was about to post a question in the F-150 thread just before the lights went out, so I thought I would bring it back.  And why not?  It's an F-150 thread, after all!

Anyway, I have a 2005 F-150 with the 5.4L V8 engine in it.  I pulled our camper (a converted 8x20 toy hauler) a few hours each way last weekend and got about 5.7 MPG at ~72 MPH, then about 8.8 MPG at ~60 MPH on the way home.  I went back and checked my logs and found that I have been getting about 11 MPG in town.  I have had issues with occasional leaking spark plugs ever since I changed them at 100,000 miles, and that is probably what is happening now.  Anyway, I'm looking at a 3.5L V6 with the max tow package (which includes the 36 gallon tank and 1:3.55 differential).  Do any of you have any MPG data for a similar setup, where the trailer isn't necessarily that heavy, but is an 8' wide box?

I know I'm not going to get my money back with any MPG difference, but I'm looking for a rig that keeps me from burning a half tank of gas every 100 miles or so.

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Thanks to all of your for your help.  I found a leftover 2020 with max tow and navigation (in "dirt color") for what I thought was a very reasonable price.  The only problem is that it was in Tennesse

On the EBs it’s the cam phasers that make the cold start rattle - lasts about 2-5 seconds upon start.  Mine has been doing it for the last 21,000 miles, with 27,000 miles on the truck currently.

Yes, the 10-speed is an absolute winner here.  It locks out the upper gears when necessary and does a great job of keeping you in the power.  No need to do anything, simply engage tow/haul mode and hi

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My 14 with the 6 speed (not max tow) gets 15 around town with a light foot, 17-18 on the highway with speeds 75 and under, and 9-10 towing our boat in the 55-70 range.  I'm sure the tow mirrors cost me 1 mpg at highway speeds.  My truck is semi-leveled (1" not the usual 2") and runs at tires (stock size), which probably doesn't help the MPG calcs either.

There are hills and mountains where I live so I'd suspect you'd do better at flat sea level.

when you are in the boost there's not much eco.

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2019 Expedition MAX. Use it to tow my LSV and my 18’ Ranger. Usually set cruise 70 - 75 with my Bu and 75-80 with the Ranger. 
 
Towing MPG is worse than my Yukon (although not a 100% comparison as it is so much more stable I drive faster). Solo is better. 
 

 

203236AA-AA85-4F23-86E4-E95ADBFD4B9D.png

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12 hours ago, justgary said:

I was about to post a question in the F-150 thread just before the lights went out, so I thought I would bring it back.  And why not?  It's an F-150 thread, after all!

Anyway, I have a 2005 F-150 with the 5.4L V8 engine in it.  I pulled our camper (a converted 8x20 toy hauler) a few hours each way last weekend and got about 5.7 MPG at ~72 MPH, then about 8.8 MPG at ~60 MPH on the way home.  I went back and checked my logs and found that I have been getting about 11 MPG in town.  I have had issues with occasional leaking spark plugs ever since I changed them at 100,000 miles, and that is probably what is happening now.  Anyway, I'm looking at a 3.5L V6 with the max tow package (which includes the 36 gallon tank and 1:3.55 differential).  Do any of you have any MPG data for a similar setup, where the trailer isn't necessarily that heavy, but is an 8' wide box?

I know I'm not going to get my money back with any MPG difference, but I'm looking for a rig that keeps me from burning a half tank of gas every 100 miles or so.

One thing I learned when I had the Eco and based off 3 family members with similar setups is it really didn't matter what you towed, stock setups still yield about 10-11MPG towing.  It didn't matter if they're hauling an empty landscape trailer or a camper.  Never really understood that aspect.  That said, I had a 14' with HD tow and 3.73 gears and averaged about 14 around town and could hit 18 on highway with light foot.  Dad has a 15' (aluminum body) with same setup and he gets 15 around town and can hit mid 19s on highway.  Brother has a 2019 with 3.55 w 10 speed eco and he regularly hits 22-23 on the highway and 17 around town.  He doesn't have any toys to compare towing numbers but I have to believe they'd be slightly better than the rigs with 6 speed trannys.

It doesn't say what era of F150 you're looking at but if you can swing the 10 speeds, I think it would be beneficial for your application.  The Eco was hands down one of my favorite rigs.  When you stomp the pedal, it immediately puts a smile on your face but that's part of the reason why mileage suffers. My last truck was a 3/4 ton with gas engine and I thought it would be a good idea to put a 6" lift and 37" tires on it.  I was in the same situation as you where I couldn't pass a gas station because I'd get 7mpg towing boat or camper.  I went to a 1-ton diesel and while it fits my situation better, the Eco was still more fun to drive around town, easier to park and towed 7000lb and under very well.  Our new camper pushed me back to the HD rigs.  If money weren't an object I'd have an Eco for daily driving and HD for towing applications but that's not practical right now.  

Edited by wedge88
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I have a 2016 Lariat but mine is only the 3.55 ratio with the 3.5 and 20" wheels.  Towing my 2011 A22 with the cruise set at 75 I would get 7-8mpg in hilly terrain in Arkansas and Kentucky.  Pulling flat I would get about 1-2 mpg better.  Unloaded city I get roughly 15 and highway 17/18.  I have the tow mirrors and I think it does drop mpg.  I had a 2014 FX4 optioned the same from engine ratio except 18" wheels and regular mirrors and got about 2mpg better on the highway.  I haven't driven with the 10speed tranny as I have a 6, but based on what I've read it does a bit better.  I think if I were to order a new one the 18" wheels do a lot better but I would never go back to another truck without tow mirrors.  The visibility is just so much better with them.  My dad has a 2016 XLT and he does a little better fuel wise and I'm guessing the wheels are what it is.  Roughly the same truck but again 18" wheels.  Both of us have never had any engine issues with the 4 we've had between us.  I think his 2011 had 200k+ miles on it before he sold it.  Oh yeah I also don't put premium fuel in it.  I think in the manual does say when towing to do that, I tried it once and noticed no difference except for my wallet.  I run 87 exclusively after that.  Hope this helps. 

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I get ~11.5mpg at 60-65 with my 2019 5.0l and the 10-spd. 3.55s, 4wd.  When its empty around town is ~16. Highway at 75 is around 19 and I get 20-21 if I keep it under 70.  I am very happy with the truck.

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OK, thanks to all for helping me spend my money... the next question is, I found a truck within about an hour of me that has everything I want, plus a moonroof.  Simple is good for me, and I don't need extra maintenance ten or fifteen years from now.  I haven't heard horror stories like I used to 30 years ago.  How are sun/moon roofs these days, and do any of you have one on your F-150?

Edit:  It's a 2020 with six miles on it.  I'm guessing because of the moon roof....

Edited by justgary
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I've had four vehicles with sun/moon roofs (one was an older metal sliding sunroof).  The last one, about 6-7 years ago was a PITA (Chrysler product).  Leaked and one day in a rapid change of weather in the wintertime, it exploded.  Thankfully my glass guy found a used one since new was like 2K installed.  Since the CFO _hates_ them, no plans to get another, even though I personally love them. <sigh>

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granddaddy55
3 hours ago, justgary said:

OK, thanks to all for helping me spend my money... the next question is, I found a truck within about an hour of me that has everything I want, plus a moonroof.  Simple is good for me, and I don't need extra maintenance ten or fifteen years from now.  I haven't heard horror stories like I used to 30 years ago.  How are sun/moon roofs these days, and do any of you have one on your F-150?

Edit:  It's a 2020 with six miles on it.  I'm guessing because of the moon roof....

i think they had issues in ‘15 and not after, i would get that, with the rear cracked open with that it would be awesome

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I’m a fan of sunroofs. Mainly because my dog likes to stick his head out of it and I think it’s funny to see his lips flap in the wind. 
 

The only vehicle I had trouble with it was a 2003 2500 Burb I bought used. It leaked and I had to replace the glass. I don’t remember what it was cost wise but it wasn’t terrible. 
 

I did have something hit the sunroof in my Yukon and shatter it. Had to fight with insurance a bit as the quote must have been for the panoramic one (which I didn’t have). Estimate was around $2k and they wanted to use some aftermarket company that would have made me wait over a week in the winter to get it repaired. Once we figure that out it wasn’t a big deal. 
 

No problems with it in my 2012 RAM or my 2014 Grand Cherokee. Our Expedition doesn’t have one and I miss it. 

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I haven’t heard any problems with the sunroof on the recent models. 
 

A family member of mine had a 2010 f150 with one that needed to be fully re done within the first 1000km. I believe they’ve sorted that out. 
 

Not a sun roof but my dads 2012 Silverado rear center taillight leaked multiple times after the dealer replaced and sealed the light multiple times.  

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The twin panel moonroof is awesome but my 2017 broke 3x until I sold it. I’m getting a 2021 power boost and will get it again e en though I had issues. It’s a common problem across multiple vehicles. Before the warranty runs out, just buy the extended through flood Ford esp and save a ton of dough. 

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1 hour ago, pauley71 said:

The twin panel moonroof is awesome but my 2017 broke 3x until I sold it. I’m getting a 2021 power boost and will get it again e en though I had issues. It’s a common problem across multiple vehicles. Before the warranty runs out, just buy the extended through flood Ford esp and save a ton of dough. 

I'm typically not inclined to buy any extended warranty since they make money by accepting risk.  I can accept the risk and potentially fix problems better than factory (like I did with the cheap OEM plastic power window cable mounts on two of the four windows on my current truck).  The primary problem is the inconvenience of having something quit working when you would really like to have it, and insurance doesn't prevent that part.

I tend to just avoid the products that require an extended warranty to keep them running, so I'll probably pass on this one.  I have read about the preventive maintenance required to keep the roof from sticking/breaking/leaking, and I know that maintenance on a metal roof is zero.  I'd rather be out having fun than trying to "run a credit card between the glass and the seal before you try to open the roof."

Other than that, the panoramic roof seems like something I would use a fair amount.

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I had a 2020/ 3.5 /10 speed 2wd F150 Platinum. Pulling a 16' trailer hauling my polaris ranger a total of 5 trips in 3 months. I averaged 10 mpg at 70 mph, I now have a 2021 Ram 3500 cummins 4x4 that gets 16mpg with same load.

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@justgary, the only thing id offer is...if they will let you, you might want to hook up to something and tow with it.  My brother has an EB.  We hooked up to a trailer ant towed my Jeep with it (blown u-joints).  I was NOT happy with the way it felt.  It seemed like i was always deeply in/out of the gas pedal trying to keep the speed consistent.  While the idea of better mileage with an EB motor might seem appealing, you very well could find that the way it pulls might not be what makes you happy.  This is the EXACT reason i asked for a 5.0 when i bought by '17.  They tow COMPLETELY different.  And anyone that says otherwise isnt being truthful. 

I average 17mpg regular weekly use (im not exactly nice on the skinny pedal).  Pulling my '18 T23, i average 9 running 70.  Thats also about the same i got while pulling my Jeep (~500 less) from Dallas to Moab). 

Edited by Texan32
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I just clicked over to my trip B at lunch. I haven’t reset that for 8k miles, so it includes towing the boat, communing to work (urban / suburban streets) and going skiing (40-80 miles of freeway and highway each way). I’m at 14.1mpg. 

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15 minutes ago, Texan32 said:

My brother has an EB.  We hooked up to a trailer ant towed my Jeep with it (blown u-joints).  I was NOT happy with the way it felt.  It seemed like i was always deeply in/out of the gas pedal trying to keep the speed consistent. 

Is that the only EcoBoost you have towed with?  Because I rarely (honestly, almost never) hear anyone complain about the way they tow.

Cards on the table, I am a MOPAR guy.  We have a ExMax that is a sometimes tow vehicle.  Short of my Cummins, if we are just talking about engine power and transmission, I've never towed with a better platform.  Thats comparing it to a 2500 Burb 8.1.  A Yukon Denali XL 6.2, my old 5.9 Cummins with a tuner, a Hemi Grand Cherokee and Durango, among others.

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Just towed my RZX3 which is over 9000lbs with lead and thought the EcoBoost did amazing for a half ton. Didnt go far or over any mountains but held highway speeds and accelerated very well comparable to heavy duty platforms I'm familiar with. only complaint was it needs some help in the rear as it is squatting terribly and bounces around a bit, but some airbags or timbrens should help that. 

https://imgur.com/gallery/cCceHrs

 

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53 minutes ago, RyanB said:

Is that the only EcoBoost you have towed with?  Because I rarely (honestly, almost never) hear anyone complain about the way they tow.

Cards on the table, I am a MOPAR guy.  We have a ExMax that is a sometimes tow vehicle.  Short of my Cummins, if we are just talking about engine power and transmission, I've never towed with a better platform.  Thats comparing it to a 2500 Burb 8.1.  A Yukon Denali XL 6.2, my old 5.9 Cummins with a tuner, a Hemi Grand Cherokee and Durango, among others.

I understand that Dodge may make an acceptable tow rig, and I think it is great that you found one.  I looked up "dodge" in the dictionary though, and it means, "to avoid."

I will admit that I have not even driven an ecoboost yet.  I'm trying to avoid a diesel if possible, but it isn't out of the question.  The 5.0 V8 is not out of the question either.  The short list of what I would like on the truck is pretty short:

XLT trim, 3.55 differential, 36 gallon tank, max tow (which I think dictates the 3.55 and 3.5L EB, as well as the 36 gallon tank), F250 tow mirrors (even I have have to put them on), *not* black or red.  Local dealer has one in red, so if I could like that, I'd probably own it by now.

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2 minutes ago, justgary said:

XLT trim, 3.55 differential, 36 gallon tank, max tow (which I think dictates the 3.55 and 3.5L EB, as well as the 36 gallon tank), F250 tow mirrors (even I have have to put them on), *not* black or red.  Local dealer has one in red, so if I could like that, I'd probably own it by now.

Sounds pretty much like my exact spec, nothing but great things to say about it.  With the 302a package you get the technology and add the sport package it looks better than the lariat.

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1 hour ago, RyanB said:

Is that the only EcoBoost you have towed with?  Because I rarely (honestly, almost never) hear anyone complain about the way they tow.

Cards on the table, I am a MOPAR guy.  We have a ExMax that is a sometimes tow vehicle.  Short of my Cummins, if we are just talking about engine power and transmission, I've never towed with a better platform.  Thats comparing it to a 2500 Burb 8.1.  A Yukon Denali XL 6.2, my old 5.9 Cummins with a tuner, a Hemi Grand Cherokee and Durango, among others.

Yes, it was the only EB I've towed with, and its been several years.  Perhaps the 10sp transmission has made a night and day difference.  But, i can say that i've towed various loads with all 3 US brands (6 if you include Jeep and military 2.5/5 ton trucks).  The Ford Super Duty is my favorite for sure.  The 1 tone Dodge w/Cummins was quite nice too.  The Chevy was ok on power but felt squishy with a heavy load.  Hell, back in the day, ive put may miles towing with a 300 cu. in strait six F150 that i like better than the EB setup i drove.

Point being.  Everyone has their opinion.  As long as you are safe...no "opinion" is right or wrong.  Its just an opinion.  If you are used to the power characteristics of a V8 or diesel and you switch to an EB type motor, you just might be in for an unexpected surprise you may or may not like.  

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1 hour ago, justgary said:

I understand that Dodge may make an acceptable tow rig, and I think it is great that you found one.  I looked up "dodge" in the dictionary though, and it means, "to avoid."

Clever.  Perhaps you should look up RAM, as Dodge hasn't made a truck in around 10 years.  Helps to stay up to date to make comparisons. ;)  

 

54 minutes ago, Texan32 said:

As long as you are safe...no "opinion" is right or wrong.  Its just an opinion.  If you are used to the power characteristics of a V8 or diesel and you switch to an EB type motor, you just might be in for an unexpected surprise you may or may not like.  

I guess I'm not sure what your point is here.  The EB's power curve is very similar to a diesel, probably closer to a diesel than any other engine.  Flat torque curve.  LOTS of torque (much more than almost any gasser).  Makes plenty of power at low RPM.  That's why it tows so well.  While it may not actually have more power than other engines (which really isn't true, but trying to throw a bone), the perceived power is better - it will run the same speed at lower RPMs.

For comparison, towing Vail Pass/Eisenhower Tunnel in my old 6.2, it would run be running over 4500 RPMs trying to maintain 60 MPH.  The EcoBoost is closer to 3500 RPM, easily running 70, and would run faster if I wanted it to.

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3 minutes ago, RyanB said:

Dodge hasn't made a truck in around 10 years.  Helps to stay up to date to make comparisons. ;)  

What?  When did this happen?

To be completely honest, my aversion to MOPAR products started in 1978 while working on the Chrysler LeBaron a GF owned.  The products look great, but always seem to be poorly engineered or just cheaply made, primarily due to the mixture of AMC-Fiat-Renault-Jeep-Mercedes-Chrysler-Dodge stuff randomly bolted together on one vehicle.  Is this not still the case?

My aversion to GM happened in the late 1990s with the "primer delamination" debacle of paint peeling on a van I bought new in 1992.

I happen to really like Ford trucks, and they haven't run me off yet....

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14 hours ago, RyanB said:

I guess I'm not sure what your point is here.  The EB's power curve is very similar to a diesel, probably closer to a diesel than any other engine.  Flat torque curve.  LOTS of torque (much more than almost any gasser).  Makes plenty of power at low RPM.  That's why it tows so well.  While it may not actually have more power than other engines (which really isn't true, but trying to throw a bone), the perceived power is better - it will run the same speed at lower RPMs.

For comparison, towing Vail Pass/Eisenhower Tunnel in my old 6.2, it would run be running over 4500 RPMs trying to maintain 60 MPH.  The EcoBoost is closer to 3500 RPM, easily running 70, and would run faster if I wanted it to.

My experience was not a lack of hp/tq numbers.  My dislike of towing with the EB was the cruising and small(er) rolling hills.  I felt like i was constantly deep into the throttle to maintain speed.  I do have to feather the pedal in my 5.0, but it doesn't feel as aggressive.  Now, i can admit that its been a few years since i towed with an EB.  I have no doubt that Ford made changes (hopefully for the better), one obviously being the 10sp trans.  The overall point I was trying to make is that different drivetrains will tow differently.  I would be devastated do drop a ton of cash on a new(er) truck only to find out I hated the way it felt when towing.  I'm certainly NOT saying the newest EBs don't tow like a dream.  They very well could.  But, if you've owned/towed with a truck for several years and are accustomed to its characteristics, the new one is going feel different.

I'm not trying to sway opinion one way or the other.  What I am saying is that if you have the opportunity, hook one up to a load and feel it out. :thumbup:

Edited by Texan32
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