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BlackCat

Thoughts on a M5 vs. M6 vs. 450 in a 2020 23 LSV?

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BlackCat

Looking at some 2020 23 LSVs with different motors and would love some insight / opinions.  The end game for me is surfing with the optimum wave...full ballast, PNP, 500 lbs of lead up front / port coffin and a 500 lb bow sac when needed.  I'm in the Midwest at a lower altitude (810').  Can a M5 with a high altitude / torque prop do everything I want it to do or do I need to go bigger?  Does a M6 and / or 450 require a high altitude prop?  Fuel efficiency difference in the three motors (when surfing)?    

Are there any other factors that I'm missing?  Were the transmissions / ratios all the same for 2020 23 LSVs?  Thanks! 

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Five Cent Worth
9 minutes ago, BlackCat said:

Looking at some 2020 23 LSVs with different motors and would love some insight / opinions.  The end game for me is surfing with the optimum wave...full ballast, PNP, 500 lbs of lead up front / port coffin and a 500 lb bow sac when needed.  I'm in the Midwest at a lower altitude (810').  Can a M5 with a high altitude / torque prop do everything I want it to do or do I need to go bigger?  Does a M6 and / or 450 require a high altitude prop?  Fuel efficiency difference in the three motors (when surfing)?    

Are there any other factors that I'm missing?  Were the transmissions / ratios all the same for 2020 23 LSVs?  Thanks! 

Wow....1000 extra lbs....  Do you need this?

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BlackCat
1 minute ago, Five Cent Worth said:

Wow....1000 extra lbs....  Do you need this?

@Five Cent Worth

I did in the 2014 23 LSV with a 350 that I sold this past fall.   500lbs of lead was always in there (bow and port coffin)....Only used the 500lb bow sac when we had 4 or more people in the cabin and no one wanted to sit in bow.  

 

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Slayer
27 minutes ago, BlackCat said:

Looking at some 2020 23 LSVs with different motors and would love some insight / opinions.  The end game for me is surfing with the optimum wave...full ballast, PNP, 500 lbs of lead up front / port coffin and a 500 lb bow sac when needed.  I'm in the Midwest at a lower altitude (810').  Can a M5 with a high altitude / torque prop do everything I want it to do or do I need to go bigger?  Does a M6 and / or 450 require a high altitude prop?  Fuel efficiency difference in the three motors (when surfing)?    

Are there any other factors that I'm missing?  Were the transmissions / ratios all the same for 2020 23 LSVs?  Thanks! 

If you do some searching here, you'll find that there are a few discussions on this matter.  There will be many opinions.

Likely, at your location and elevation you'll be fine.  I think if you load up for wakeboarding, the M5 is going to struggle.  It's a great engine, no question, but perhaps not exactly the best fit for that application.  We recently ordered a 2021 and opted for the M6 for a couple reasons, not the least of which being performance.  Resale is a consideration for us as well and we felt the M6 to be a better option from that perspective as well as performance.  The bigger thing for me was that I wasn't interested in ordering a boat and desiring more power down the road.  YMMV, but I do suggest some searching here to help answer your question.  

Also, I'm not sure you need that much weight in the new 23.  ICBW, but from what I understand, the new hull is more about balanced weight than it is massive weight.  It's a much different hull than your 2014 but I can't comment on a comparison from the perspective of additional weight as I have no experience between the 2.  My only frame of reference is 2018 23 LSV, 2017 25 LSV, and 2017 22VLX.  

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JWBeav

We have a 2020 23 LSV with the M6 and love the power and how quiet the engine is.  We have a lake cabin at 4000 feet and it has no problem pulling surfers or wakeboarders with the 3077 prop.  We currently have 250 pounds of add'l weight in the observers locker with most of it just behind the bow, 50 pounds in the battery compartment, and 50 pounds in front of the driver just in front of the sub towards the bow.  The port wave is really good and we are working on dialing in the "goofy" side as we received the boat in late September and have only had 2 trips out.  I think next trip out we will only fill the port ballast to 85% and see if that cleans things up.  Unfortunately, I do not have any experience with the M6 or 450 so not much help there.  For resale I think getting the M6 will be helpful.

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Outlaw

On an investment of this magnitude wouldn't consider less than the M6. Our 2020 23 LSV with M6 when we surf is always full ballast and usually 8-10 people. Big wave. Set the cruise at 10.8 mph which needs about 3700 rpms. I got the standard prop, not a torque prop. Torque prop at out altitude would be a waste. Tempted to try a speed prop. Our lake is 922' msl. Don't plan on shopping for a used boat in the future, but I'd only consider an M6 23 LSV. If you get an M5, don't drive an M6 boat. It would break your heart. Drive both M5 vs M6. The M6 upgrade is a relatively small percentage of this purchase. Cut back on other options, but not the heart of the boat. My next will probably be the LT4. Never think about fuel consumption. Love, love, love the boat. I'm sure you'll definitely make it up the M6 cost on the next trade or sale. Yeah... confused about discussions of adding weight.... but I'm new to the surfing think. Cheers!

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JWBeav

Sorry, I meant no experience with the M5...and 100% agree with Outlaw on the M6, lack of power on a boat would be a deal killer.  The only real issue to worry about with the 2019 and 2020's is the impeller, some seem to go through impellers quite frequently and others seem to have no problems.  Our boat has been fine, we just changed it after 50 hours and it looked brand new.  There is supposedly a fix but haven't seen it yet...

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NWBU

Good info above from Slayer, and I'm in the M6 camp too. The extra weight you're used to sounds like a typical dialed in 2014 setup but you'll find you won't need as much for the 2018+ hulls to get a better wave. Play around with 200-400 lbs of lead in the forward and port areas but you shouldn't need to run a bow bag with this boat.

The regular prop will do great and quite a few folks are happy running the speed prop at your elevation. Definitely won't need the altitude/torque prop there.

Transmission ratios are the same with those engines too.

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NWBU
2 hours ago, JWBeav said:

We have a 2020 23 LSV with the M6 and love the power and how quiet the engine is.  We have a lake cabin at 4000 feet and it has no problem pulling surfers or wakeboarders with the 3077 prop.  We currently have 250 pounds of add'l weight in the observers locker with most of it just behind the bow, 50 pounds in the battery compartment, and 50 pounds in front of the driver just in front of the sub towards the bow.  The port wave is really good and we are working on dialing in the "goofy" side as we received the boat in late September and have only had 2 trips out.  I think next trip out we will only fill the port ballast to 85% and see if that cleans things up.  Unfortunately, I do not have any experience with the M6 or 450 so not much help there.  For resale I think getting the M6 will be helpful.

Dropping the port ballast to 75% or maybe even more  should help clean up the goofy wave. Your weight is placed to help out the port wave, but the normally better starboard wave has suffered. My weight placement is fairly similar and I compensate with the rear tanks and even sometimes move a bag of lead if goofy friends need help.

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JWBeav

Thanks NWBU, everyone in my fam and friend group surfs the port side so unfortunately I am the only goofy.  I think it is just a matter of too much water going over the top of the surf gate so dialing back on the ballast on the port side will hopefully do the trick.  The ballast bags are a pain to move so would rather leave them where they are.  Looking forward to summer already...  

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dlb

We ordered the M6 on our boat and am very happy with it.  Normally we go out with about 6+ adults.  We see no need for lead, just ask people to move about.  Usually there is a lottery for who gets to sit in the bow.

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23LSVOwner

Do the M6.

 

You don't have to use all of the power if you don't need it. Much higher trade in value down the road.

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Texan32

I was talking with Randy at WSA back in Sept time.  IIRC he stated that they typically order the M6 for 23" plus boats as a standard.

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Slayer
18 hours ago, JWBeav said:

We have a 2020 23 LSV with the M6 and love the power and how quiet the engine is.  We have a lake cabin at 4000 feet and it has no problem pulling surfers or wakeboarders with the 3077 prop.  We currently have 250 pounds of add'l weight in the observers locker with most of it just behind the bow, 50 pounds in the battery compartment, and 50 pounds in front of the driver just in front of the sub towards the bow.  The port wave is really good and we are working on dialing in the "goofy" side as we received the boat in late September and have only had 2 trips out.  I think next trip out we will only fill the port ballast to 85% and see if that cleans things up.  Unfortunately, I do not have any experience with the M6 or 450 so not much help there.  For resale I think getting the M6 will be helpful.

I ordered my boat with the standard prop and ordered the speed prop as well.  My understanding of the performance of the speed prop is that it will keep my RPM lower while surfing and still allow me to do longer runs when I travel away from the home lake to larger lakes that we visit each year. 

 

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JWBeav

I am interested in trying the speed prop as it should bring the surf RPM's down (not that they are bad now, around 3400), just curious how well it will work at our lake cabin elevation of 4000 feet.  Do you (or anyone) have any experience with the speed prop at higher elev's?

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Slayer
3 hours ago, JWBeav said:

I am interested in trying the speed prop as it should bring the surf RPM's down (not that they are bad now, around 3400), just curious how well it will work at our lake cabin elevation of 4000 feet.  Do you (or anyone) have any experience with the speed prop at higher elev's?

I do not.  Perhaps @IXFE may have some knowledge of this?  Not sure. 

 

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NWBU
11 hours ago, JWBeav said:

I am interested in trying the speed prop as it should bring the surf RPM's down (not that they are bad now, around 3400), just curious how well it will work at our lake cabin elevation of 4000 feet.  Do you (or anyone) have any experience with the speed prop at higher elev's?

If you want to rationalize the extra prop, keep your regular prop as the backup prop, and also use it for the cabin trips. Then get a speed prop to use the rest of the time. 

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IXFE
48 minutes ago, NWBU said:

If you want to rationalize the extra prop, keep your regular prop as the backup prop, and also use it for the cabin trips. Then get a speed prop to use the rest of the time. 

what he said...

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Slayer
8 hours ago, NWBU said:

If you want to rationalize the extra prop, keep your regular prop as the backup prop, and also use it for the cabin trips. Then get a speed prop to use the rest of the time. 

My plan, exactly. 

 

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JWBeav

We live in Bend, Oregon so our lakes over here are also at higher elevation (approx 3000 ft.) I do want to try the speed prop, just don't want to be on an outing to our normal lake and have to change it out if possible.

Different topic, has anyone heard anything concerning the impeller/pump design for the newer Malibu's?  

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wdr
46 minutes ago, JWBeav said:

We live in Bend, Oregon so our lakes over here are also at higher elevation (approx 3000 ft.) I do want to try the speed prop, just don't want to be on an outing to our normal lake and have to change it out if possible.

Different topic, has anyone heard anything concerning the impeller/pump design for the newer Malibu's?  

I was down at the dealer last week and the service manager was telling me that a "new Globe impeller was going to available soon". He didn't mention anything about a new pump.

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JWBeav

thanks for the info!  We haven't had any problems and have changed it at 50 and 100 hours, both times the impeller looked good with a few of the fins starting to bend.  I know others have had them go within 30 hours so who knows!

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wdr

I have been the poster child for impeller good luck @ 300hrs. I walked in there one day and I hear, "see that guy, he has 230hrs on his original impeller". Its been pretty bad around here for a number of customers. A customer will replace one get 30hrs on it and it fails,  then get another one it runs even less hours. They don't have any replacements for a spare and they keep telling me to keep running it and don't mess with it. For me that's kind of like jumping out of an airplane with out a reserve chute. Fortunately I have the raw water strainer so unless I sit and suck sand through it for an hour straight it probably wont fail unless there is a material failure of some type.

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